Crysis 2 Writer: Halo is "Full of Bullsh*t"

Nouw

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Lol, I bet he never even bothered to read the Halo Encyclopedia /s

I see where he is going, but how could Halo add more story to it? Perhaps the person who quoted me and hated on me for writing beat instead of bet could enlighten me?

It could give more background story to the Convenat but that would change a bit of the elements of Halo. Perhaps the "WTF? Whats happening" feeling of the player was intended, not just a mistake by Bungie.

Enlighten me please. And if possible, use the Deadspace and Bioshock way of story telling to enlighten me.
 

Starke

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Riven Armor said:
I'm going to come out and disagree with the assessment of Halo's plot/characters as subpar...coming from the same people who talk about the same aspects of HL2 as leagues above. I don't believe they are.
Half-Life 2 is one that confuses me on a couple levels. I mean, it is good writing, but I'm hard pressed to come up with an objective reason. The setting, and the tone are as much the art department as the story direction. If I had to make a wild guess, I'd say it's a perfect storm of average traits coming together to form something better than the sum of its parts. I've used it as an example of excellent writing before, and I think its something to do with the way it presents exposition, which actually ties into something you bring up later.
Riven Armor said:
Yes, Master Chief is a Space Marine, being strong and silent most of the time, but, uh, he actually has dialogue as opposed to some other guy we know. Cough. To a certain extent I also take issue with the very idea of applying the Space Marine archetype - what constitutes one of them, anyway? Literally it would be the Warhammer 40K Space Marines, which embody every comical exaggeration of masculinity possible. In contrast, Master Chief's portrayal in Halo is quite restrained.
I really love Warhammer 40k, but, 40k and Halo are sort of alternate evolutions of the same thing. It'd be easy to attribute it to simply being Starship Troopers and head off. Honestly, I'm just going to do that. 40k is the Monty Python to Halo's fan love letter.

Riven Armor said:
When it comes down to it, one of the reasons the main characters in Halo sufficed for so many people is because they were calm and stalwart in a universe where so much was going wrong. The Covenant was already making huge strides, what with glassing human colonies right and left, and that's before the Flood showed up to pose an existential threat to every other sentient being in the galaxy. But you don't see the Chief whining about it. Instead, just as in the famous diorama Halo 3 trailer, he symbolizes hope. That's something people can believe in.
At the risk of opening a larger can of worms, I wonder how much of Halo's success can be traced back to American jingoism in the aftermath of September 11. I mean, in a lot of ways MC comes across like that noble heroic soldier of myth and legend that got played up in the post 9/11 iconography.

I'm not saying that people consciously chose Halo because of this analogy or that this was an intentional design decision. Rather, I wonder if the stalwart nature of his, you're referring to doesn't reflect another aspect of American culture at that specific moment.
Riven Armor said:
Additionally, much of Halo's intended influence is in the aesthetic details. The simple scale of the ring resolving to a thin white line in space over your head, the vast pyramid you had to climb in one of the snow levels in the first game, the stable elegance in Forerunner architecture, and most definitely the well-crafted music. Halo's soundtrack isn't an afterthought as in so many other games. When you are playing the game, it actually acts to inspire.
The aesthetics, and the artistic design are very good, I'll grant you that. And this has always been one of Bungie's strong points. When I'm playing a game, today, and I see aesthetics that really work, it tends to remind me of the Marathon games.

Now, can you say that's actually an influence on the industry? No, not really. When you see those aesthetics in other games, its usually one of two things. Either, they're very good aesthetics, or, more commonly, they're trying to mimic Halo to boost sales.

The soundtrack argument is also sort of in a similar vein. Given previous Bungie games and their soundtracks, it would not surprise me at all that the original Halo's soundtrack was an afterthought. The catch is, it's really really good. What you're describing is what a soundtrack should do. It should evoke a mood, or conjure a texture, either to the action or the environment. That's what Halo's music does, it evokes a mood based on the action, and it works.
Riven Armor said:
I'll admit that some plot elements degraded significantly by the time the third game came out. Bungie was so bent on convincing everyone that the Flood weren't just a bunch of space zombies that they actually turned them into a non sequitur instead. There's really no good reason why the Flood show up on Earth in the third game other than to provide the requisite third faction.
In the sense that story is only there to advance the game play, this is a failure.

I guess you could draw this out as a contrast between Halo and 40k in flavor. 40k, when presented with a cliche will attempt to find a way of tearing it apart in the interest of creating something hilarious, while Halo wants to believe that its making something unique.
I'm not completely convinced of this argument, but, maybe someone can parse it apart and get something more coherent out of it.
Riven Armor said:
Having said that, though, their introduction in the first game was very well-crafted and a great example of affecting storytelling. A book medium would run for tens of pages just trying to create the atmosphere of the swamp installation and the grunt blood smeared on the walls. This kind of quiet realization just doesn't happen in, say, Modern Warfare 2. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that Halo doesn't over-saturate with noise precisely because they want you to appreciate the atmosphere.
One of the most fundamental aspects of the last few generations of game design, and one of the most critical, is actually advice from cinema, "show, don't tell."

You're describing this in action. Even though a writer could indulge in purple prose and spend 10 pages pontificating about the way the environment looks, really, in a book you don't want to do that. That's 10 pages that could be spent on character development, plot advancement, exposition, or (if you're Melville) writing a whale biology textbook.

If this is good or not depends on a simple question. Do you want to inspire the imagination, or excite the senses. If the answer is the former, then making games like Halo might not be the best place for you.

What you're arguing is that what Halo does best is create atmosphere. I'm not sure if I agree with you about Halo's atmosphere, but it is definitely an important component in game design. Half-Life 2 excels at this, and gets praised for its writing. STALKER excels at this and gets blasted for its writing. Go figure. Either way, the atmosphere is a component of writing. In a book the author has to create it. In a game, the writer has to work with the art team to create it.
 

Nouw

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Starke said:
Nouw said:
Lol, I beat he never even bothered to read the Halo Encyclopedia.
Bet. The word is bet. There is no A in it. If you would like a demonstration of the difference, I'm sure someone can help you.

Nouw said:
I agree that it is pretty much just :Shoot here or there without much story.

But of course, Halo wasn't meant to be like that. You wouldn't find notes on a dead marine saying so and so happened.
Nice to know you can start an argument with yourself... I don't even have to help.

Nouw said:
Dead Space and Bioshock are both horror. You can't compare a Sci-Fi Military Interstellar War against Religious Aliens to a Horror game based on The Bottom Of The Sea or a Mining Ship. That has a very dark atmosphere.
Sure you can. Otherwise you can't criticize anything, because it isn't identical to something else.

Nouw said:
Anyone realise that he was comparing Horror Games to a Completely different genre of FPS?
Whowhatnow? Please, good sir, I implore you. Make some fucking sense. You are allegedly a member of the most intelligent species on the planet, but I've had conversations with iguanas that were more verbose.

Nouw said:
Seriously man, it was like when the PS magazine compared Halo to Resistance. Their goals are competely different!

Ever heard of Genre?
Ever hear of complete sentences? ...or paragraphs? ...or content analysis? ...or school? ...literacy? ...still nothing?
Making one mistake is obviously Heresy I suppose. Not using the best way of posting grammatically is Heresy too.
 

Starke

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Nouw said:
Making one mistake is obviously Heresy I suppose. Not using the best way of posting grammatically is Heresy too.
Well, in that case, if you insist, BURN THE WITCH!
 

Nouw

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Starke said:
Nouw said:
Making one mistake is obviously Heresy I suppose. Not using the best way of posting grammatically is Heresy too.
Well, in that case, if you insist, BURN THE WITCH!
I am a Battle Brother of the Blood Angels Chapter. Upon attacking a Space Marine is worse then making a grammatical error. Prepare to die
 

Starke

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Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Making one mistake is obviously Heresy I suppose. Not using the best way of posting grammatically is Heresy too.
Well, in that case, if you insist, BURN THE WITCH!
I am a Battle Brother of the Blood Angels Chapter. Upon attacking a Space Marine is worse then making a grammatical error. Prepare to die
Your chapter master is a traitor. Your chapter under Inquisitorial investigation for serving the Word Bearers. FOR THE EMPORAH!
 

Nouw

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Starke said:
Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Making one mistake is obviously Heresy I suppose. Not using the best way of posting grammatically is Heresy too.
Well, in that case, if you insist, BURN THE WITCH!
I am a Battle Brother of the Blood Angels Chapter. Upon attacking a Space Marine is worse then making a grammatical error. Prepare to die
Your chapter master is a traitor. Your chapter under Inquisitorial investigation for serving the Word Bearers. FOR THE EMPORAH!
How dare you call the oldest living Space Marine a traitor! The Space Marines will hear about this.

We are know requistioning an Exterminatus onto your Homeplanet.
 

Riven Armor

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Starke said:
Riven Armor said:
I'm going to come out and disagree with the assessment of Halo's plot/characters as subpar...coming from the same people who talk about the same aspects of HL2 as leagues above. I don't believe they are.
Half-Life 2 is one that confuses me on a couple levels. I mean, it is good writing, but I'm hard pressed to come up with an objective reason. The setting, and the tone are as much the art department as the story direction. If I had to make a wild guess, I'd say it's a perfect storm of average traits coming together to form something better than the sum of its parts. I've used it as an example of excellent writing before, and I think its something to do with the way it presents exposition, which actually ties into something you bring up later.
IIRC something that all journalists will write about Half Life is that it recalls an Eastern European city when that part of the world was still known as the Eastern Bloc and the Iron Curtain was in place, blah blah. That contemporary nature is always a good starting point for games, especially when it's illustrated in detail like HL2's. Metaphorical illustrations of real trends are what sci-fi was founded on.

HL2 means to insert the player rather than portray a cinematic experience, and it does that pretty well. For starters, the people who complain to you in City 17 feel pretty real.

I really love Warhammer 40k, but, 40k and Halo are sort of alternate evolutions of the same thing. It'd be easy to attribute it to simply being Starship Troopers and head off. Honestly, I'm just going to do that. 40k is the Monty Python to Halo's fan love letter.
That same thing being the supersoldier I guess? Is that a bad thing?

When it comes down to it, I can't think of many big titles that are more than tangentially similar to Halo. GOW steps into 40K comic exaggeration peppered with more soldierlike dialogue, MW is all about Tom Clancy stuff if Clancy actually wrote less infrastructure and more action...

At the risk of opening a larger can of worms, I wonder how much of Halo's success can be traced back to American jingoism in the aftermath of September 11. I mean, in a lot of ways MC comes across like that noble heroic soldier of myth and legend that got played up in the post 9/11 iconography.

I'm not saying that people consciously chose Halo because of this analogy or that this was an intentional design decision. Rather, I wonder if the stalwart nature of his, you're referring to doesn't reflect another aspect of American culture at that specific moment.
Nothing exists in a vacuum of course, but Halo's storyline is too unlike the modern world's, especially in the position of the good guys. I don't think it mattered that much.

Now, can you say that's actually an influence on the industry? No, not really. When you see those aesthetics in other games, its usually one of two things. Either, they're very good aesthetics, or, more commonly, they're trying to mimic Halo to boost sales.
I mean inspire the viewer, not the industry.

The soundtrack argument is also sort of in a similar vein. Given previous Bungie games and their soundtracks, it would not surprise me at all that the original Halo's soundtrack was an afterthought. The catch is, it's really really good. What you're describing is what a soundtrack should do. It should evoke a mood, or conjure a texture, either to the action or the environment. That's what Halo's music does, it evokes a mood based on the action, and it works.
Based on the action and the environment. Maybe Bungie didn't know they were making something great, but when that much thought goes into the music, I don't know...

I guess you could draw this out as a contrast between Halo and 40k in flavor. 40k, when presented with a cliche will attempt to find a way of tearing it apart in the interest of creating something hilarious, while Halo wants to believe that its making something unique.
I'm not completely convinced of this argument, but, maybe someone can parse it apart and get something more coherent out of it.
Yeah, that pretty much is the Flood defined. We had the Tyranid, the Zerg, then these guys...and Bungie wanted us to believe they were something different. Meh.


One of the most fundamental aspects of the last few generations of game design, and one of the most critical, is actually advice from cinema, "show, don't tell."

You're describing this in action. Even though a writer could indulge in purple prose and spend 10 pages pontificating about the way the environment looks, really, in a book you don't want to do that. That's 10 pages that could be spent on character development, plot advancement, exposition, or (if you're Melville) writing a whale biology textbook.

If this is good or not depends on a simple question. Do you want to inspire the imagination, or excite the senses. If the answer is the former, then making games like Halo might not be the best place for you.
It's a little unfair to talk about that after the Flood level, which is the earthiest Halo gets. Talking about the imagination, even though the Halo rings are kind of like a redacted Ringworld that doesn't mean they don't appeal to epic scale. That and some other touches like "The Pillar of Autumn" or the mystery of the Forerunners are different from just sensory overload.

What you're arguing is that what Halo does best is create atmosphere. I'm not sure if I agree with you about Halo's atmosphere, but it is definitely an important component in game design. Half-Life 2 excels at this, and gets praised for its writing. STALKER excels at this and gets blasted for its writing. Go figure. Either way, the atmosphere is a component of writing. In a book the author has to create it. In a game, the writer has to work with the art team to create it.
Never played Stalker so I can't comment on that. I think people get jaded about Halo's storytelling today is because of the way the third wrapped things up. The first was a journey of discovery, the second said a lot about Covenant culture, the third was way too short. And at times dumb. Flood on Earth, solving the Ark problem by blowing another ring up. It's like the end of Shooter. Just kill em all and go home. Way too simple.
 

Riven Armor

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One thing that just hit me was that I really dislike Halo/Half-Life comparisons because I feel the first Halo was deeper than Half-Life. The former imagines a completely different universe and the latter is a shooter with great writing.
 

Mucinex-D

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People who think story > game-play kind of annoy me. Sure a nice story is really great, and have a nice story and great game-play is awesome, but great game-play is really all that's needed. Even if that game-play is just "run around shooting people", if the game itself is fun why complain about the lack of story? This guy just seems like someone trying to get some publicity by following the "lets hate on halo" bandwagon. If you want to play for story you shouldn't be playing first person shooters (not saying that first person shooters couldn't benefit from a good story of course).
 

Starke

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Riven Armor said:
One thing that just hit me was that I really dislike Halo/Half-Life comparisons because I feel the first Halo was deeper than Half-Life. The former imagines a completely different universe and the latter is a shooter with great writing.
Okay, there is something to this, but it has nothing to do with writing.

And by saying this you kinda show your age, no offense. I'm going to guess that at the oldest you're 18 or 19, and probably in the 15/16 range. The reason I say this is because of what Half-Life actually did, and why it's harder to figure that out today.

Halo gets billed as a revolutionary first person shooter frequently by its fans. Half-Life gets the same treatment. The difference is, Half-Life, in my opinion lives up to it. In a way, it's writing is one of the few things it didn't try to revolutionize. In general, if you started playing FPSs after 1998 you will never play a new FPS that isn't heavily or fundamentally influenced by Half-Life, this includes Halo.

Basically you can chop up the history of FPSs like this. You have the Pre-Doom era, Doom, Quake, and Half-Life. If you want to get really picky, I'll conceede that Goldeneye is almost as influential in its own way.

There are a number of pre-Doom FPSs. Wolfenstein 3d is the most famous, but Bungie's Pathways into Darkness is another prominent example. Generally these are really primitive games, though Pathways is surprisingly deep given it's release date. (I'm making a bit of a guess here, I don't have a specific date for Pathway's release, it's 1993, while doom was first released December 10, 1993. Technologically it fits with the Wolfenstein era, and if it didn't actually predate Doom, it was released within 21 days of it.)

Doom changed everything. Really it kick started the FPS genre. Fair or not, this is probably the single most influential FPS ever. It set the gold standard for most of the fundamental systems that we use today for games. Including a lot of really annoying cliches in FPSs. Monster Closets and coop play both start here, as does death-match multiplayer.

After Doom we have Quake. In retrospect I'd drop this off the list, except for one thing. Quake really started the tech arms race. Up until Quake there were minor improvements in FPSs, (Marathon added room over room, Dark Forces could produce fake objects that looked like bridges) but there wasn't really a lot of effort put into really improving them beyond sharper textures, and some neat little technical gadgetry. Quake changed that. It was (as far as I can recall) the first fully 3d FPS, it used hardware rendering (which was almost unheard of at that time) and as ugly as it is today, it was the most prettiest FPS on the market.

Quake's gameplay is almost identical to Doom's however. You run through abstract mazes picking up floating ammo and weapons. The story is told through the manual, and even though I've finished the game, I'm not sure I can write a synopsis. The game world is almost an abstract Escher painting in hell.

In 1998 Valve released Half-Life. Now, what I'm not going to argue is that Half-Life was predestined to be what it is, or that it was the only possible game that could have steered video games they way it has. In fact, Unreal, released several months before Half-Life did a number of the same things that HL did to revolutionize the industry. The difference is twelve years later Half-Life is still relevant while Unreal is not.

Half-Life created a realistic environment. Before HL the most realistic environment in a video game was probably Duke Nukem 3d or Sin (Sin predates HL by 19 days, so it's a dubious counter example).

Really if you started playing FPSs after November 1998, you've probably never gotten the full effect of just how much it's influenced the current FPSs. To be fair, HL's real legacy is pretty much exclusively level design. It's narrative integration is rocky, its characters are (arguably) forgettable, and the story is flat out terrible.

The irony is, today, when a game that hasn't been influenced by Half-Life's level design gets released, it tends to be noticeable. Prey is the most obvious offender. When playing through it, fairly early on, I was trying to figure out why the game felt so off. Finally I realized, it's building off the classic level design structures, rather than trying to create a real environment. Some others include Painkiller and possible Hellgate: London.

As I mentioned Unreal and Sin both go in the same direction, settings were more focused on creating believable environments than in creating FPS style architecture. Unreal doesn't go as far, it's still a very classic game in a number of ways, while Sin didn't really have time to catch on before Half-Life hit. If Half-Life hadn't happened, I'd probably be typing up the Legacy that the Sin series has had, instead of it being an awkward footnote.

Now, Half-Life 2 is overrated. It's a graphical upgrade on the original with more of the same story. The characters are better fleshed out, the level design is realistic, and the setting has incredible texture. But, where Half-Life was something unique and earth shattering, Half-Life 2 was the status quo.

It's a lot like going back and watching The Matrix again. Everything in the Matrix has been done over and over again to the point of parody. Everything Half-Life got right has become industry standard. So looking back, it looks incredibly bland. And that was the experience I had, when I first played it. I didn't get around to it until 2002 or so, by which time, it had been heavily mined out for material by everyone.

Halo builds off of this. It steals liberally, the weapon system in Halo comes from Oni (if not earlier), and the regenerating shields were a neat concept we hadn't seen a lot of before in FPSs, (greening up was a standard feature in MMOs even then). But, fundamentally Halo's contributions to the genre have been minor game mechanics. Half-Life changed what an FPS is, its just almost impossible to see that today.
 

Starke

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Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Making one mistake is obviously Heresy I suppose. Not using the best way of posting grammatically is Heresy too.
Well, in that case, if you insist, BURN THE WITCH!
I am a Battle Brother of the Blood Angels Chapter. Upon attacking a Space Marine is worse then making a grammatical error. Prepare to die
Your chapter master is a traitor. Your chapter under Inquisitorial investigation for serving the Word Bearers. FOR THE EMPORAH!
How dare you call the oldest living Space Marine a traitor! The Space Marines will hear about this.

We are know requistioning an Exterminatus onto your Homeplanet.
No. Literally, the Blood Ravens are either under inquisitional scrutiny or about to be and the Chapter Master, Chapter Apothecary, and several other high ranking members of the chapter are in league with the Black Legion.

EDIT: Fuck, you said Blood Angels... not Blood Ravens...
 

Viptorian

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Legion said:
If he says that Halo has poor writing publicly then he is basically saying, as a game writer, that he can do better.
No he isn't. If I say, "Halo has a shitty story," it is simply my opinion. I don't pretend to be able to write, but my opinion isn't less valid.

To paraphrase and steal from a US Supreme Court decision on pornography, "I can't explain what '(shit)' is, but I know it when I see it."
 

Sh0ckFyre

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"Halo is bland, bullshit, and average".

Did you also know that the sun rises in the morning?
 

Nouw

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Starke said:
Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Making one mistake is obviously Heresy I suppose. Not using the best way of posting grammatically is Heresy too.
Well, in that case, if you insist, BURN THE WITCH!
I am a Battle Brother of the Blood Angels Chapter. Upon attacking a Space Marine is worse then making a grammatical error. Prepare to die
Your chapter master is a traitor. Your chapter under Inquisitorial investigation for serving the Word Bearers. FOR THE EMPORAH!
How dare you call the oldest living Space Marine a traitor! The Space Marines will hear about this.

We are know requistioning an Exterminatus onto your Homeplanet.
No. Literally, the Blood Ravens are either under inquisitional scrutiny or about to be and the Chapter Master, Chapter Apothecary, and several other high ranking members of the chapter are in league with the Black Legion.

EDIT: Fuck, you said Blood Angels... not Blood Ravens...
Really? Gimme me some proof.
 

Starke

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Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Starke said:
Nouw said:
Making one mistake is obviously Heresy I suppose. Not using the best way of posting grammatically is Heresy too.
Well, in that case, if you insist, BURN THE WITCH!
I am a Battle Brother of the Blood Angels Chapter. Upon attacking a Space Marine is worse then making a grammatical error. Prepare to die
Your chapter master is a traitor. Your chapter under Inquisitorial investigation for serving the Word Bearers. FOR THE EMPORAH!
How dare you call the oldest living Space Marine a traitor! The Space Marines will hear about this.

We are know requistioning an Exterminatus onto your Homeplanet.
No. Literally, the Blood Ravens are either under inquisitional scrutiny or about to be and the Chapter Master, Chapter Apothecary, and several other high ranking members of the chapter are in league with the Black Legion.

EDIT: Fuck, you said Blood Angels... not Blood Ravens...
Really? Gimme me some proof.
There's some vague references on the wiki:http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Ravens

It says it implies that Chaos Rising implies that the Chapter Master is tainted, which isn't the case, it's flat out stated that he's fallen to chaos and corrupted several of the chapter honor guard as well. As for being under inquisition investigation, that's more dubious. It's (unsurprisingly) also information from one of the DoW campaigns. If you defeat the Blood Ravens as another faction you get a message about how the Chapter was later investigated and gutted by the Inquisition.
 

Riven Armor

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Starke said:
I wasn't talking about gameplay, which in hindsight I should have mentioned (it really does look like I'm talking about the whole package, huh), but thanks for the exposition anyway. (And for guessing about my age. You scare people when you do that, you know!) I have a much better idea of FPS history now. Anyway, a couple questions.

1) The easily accessible grenade-melee-bullet triangle, was that an earlier innovation, maybe popularized by someone else?

2) The attitude/treatment of the story (ponderous) and the scale of work that went into the universe, had that already been done at some other point? (I realize this is vague.)

I only ask this because for better or worse Halo has had an impact in bringing non-gamers into the fold, and because none of the games you explained approached storytelling the same way. It even showed up in Time as a "lyrical" experience or somesuch.
 

Starke

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Riven Armor said:
Starke said:
I wasn't talking about gameplay, which in hindsight I should have mentioned (it really does look like I'm talking about the whole package, huh), but thanks for the exposition anyway. (And for guessing about my age. You scare people when you do that, you know!) I have a much better idea of FPS history now. Anyway, a couple questions.

1) The easily accessible grenade-melee-bullet triangle, was that an earlier innovation, maybe popularized by someone else?
The short answer is: I'm not sure.

The long answer is: the quick melee keys go back to at least Duke Nukem 3d. I don't remember a quick key grenade setup in a PC title from that era, but, to me, it feels like there's a lot of inherent similarity there.

That said, coding grenades to the 4 or 5 key has been pretty standard on the PC since... Dark Forces I think. And on a PC there's less need to streamline the controls as much, though it is convenient.

In a weird counter-example Marathon had something akin to the grenade quick key. Marathon's Assault Rifle had a seven round under barrel grenade launcher, which worked off an alt fire key. That said, all of Marathon's weapons had alt fire modes that did something. (Except maybe the flamethrower, I can't remember if it had an alt fire).
Riven Armor said:
2) The attitude/treatment of the story (ponderous) and the scale of work that went into the universe, had that already been done at some other point? (I realize this is vague.)
It is a bit vague. If you mean is there a franchise that had a setting similar to the scope of Halo in FPSs prior to it? Then yeah, a few. Dark Forces inherited the entire Star Wars EU, and used a fair chunk of it, at the time the Dark Forces titles were fairly unusual in how much plot material you actually got. As an aside Dark Forces may be the first FPS where you had a woman providing operation support on the other end of a commlink.

If you're asking about Halo there is one serious problem with your question, though. Depending on who you ask, the Halo universe includes the content from Marathon, which is also skull crushingly deep, and Pathways into Darkness (which is tied at the hip to Marathon.)

Beyond that, Arena is from the Doom era, and the modern incarnations are, if anything, not as deep as they used to be. Though never having had the time to kill to actually beat the damn thing, I'm not 100% when what came into the franchise. The bulk of the depth may originate with Daggerfall, but that's still 1995.

The depth of Halo's setting was far more common in RPG franchises, the Might and Magic franchise comes to mind immediately in that regard.

Deus Ex and System Shock also have extremely thought out settings. I'm not sure if I'd call either of them ponderous, but there you go.

So I guess the answer is yes, there are other highly detailed settings. Even the Quake games have a fair amount of depth to their settings these days. Though Quake is a rather strange example, 2 and 4 take place in one universe, while 1 takes place somewhere completely different.
Riven Armor said:
I only ask this because for better or worse Halo has had an impact in bringing non-gamers into the fold, and because none of the games you explained approached storytelling the same way. It even showed up in Time as a "lyrical" experience or somesuch.
The reason is, there were are a lot of different approaches to storytelling originally in video games.

Dark Forces would start you off with a mission briefing, narrated text, and as you played through the mission you'd get mission updates, and provide your copilot with additional information.

Dark Forces 2: ejected the text briefings, and opted for live action cut scenes that would then transition into the levels.

Marathon told an incredibly complex story, but the only way the player ever managed to encounter the story was via text terminals (that literally used HTTP in the game files).

Deus Ex had a very complex narrative with cut scenes, complete with dialog choices that would alter the path of several story elements.

System Shock 2 is the first example I'm aware of, that used the audio diaries, but I never played the first one so someone can let me know if they originated there instead. Beyond that if you've played Bioshock then you've already experienced precisely how System Shock's approach to storytelling worked. Root around on an abandoned ship in space infested with zombies, looking for people's private diaries they left in oddly public places while being yelled at over your radio by someone named Palito.

Doom would dump a screen of text in front of you at the end of every episode, and that was it. There'd be some text in the manual to explain what you were doing, but otherwise nothing. Even then, some of that (especially in Final Doom) really seems to be more parody than actual story.

I'm not sure if that's really helpful. Those are the different approaches I can think of off hand.

While I think about it Prime Target deserves a mention, as a batshit randomly unique example. It ran on the marathon engine, but instead of terminals you'd find notes with clues on it. The entire game was working up to trying to solve a murder mystery, so you were playing as a bodyguard investigating your last client's death. It's rather unique as an FPS, though a bug in the way the engine handled video files meant I could never actually finish it.