Crytek Dev Backpedals on Used Games Hate

[Kargathia]

People who buy used games are generally leaches on the industry, supporting retailers and not publishers or, more importantly, the artists.

I'd have zero problem with a used-copy-block type deal on consoles.

It is simplifying matters a bit, but in the end this is retailers doing the exact same thing as what publishers have been doing for years: screwing a bit more money out of the ones who actually make something.

Except that as publishers feel retailers need them more than they need them, they are now crying foul, and invoking every single version of "think of the jobs!" they can think of.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

What gets me is that the industry, specifically the major Publishers, are making a huge deal about used game sales when the problem can pretty much be isolated to one chain of retail outlets.

What we're essentially wistnessing here, gentle readers, is an enormous lovers' tiff between publishers and their longtime bed-partner, Gamestop. It's kind of funny really, in the same way that domestic disputes that haven't yet graduated into murder-suicides are grimly amusing. That is until the star-crossed lovers start fighting on the lawn, ruining your rosebushes and keeping you awake all night. Then it becomes rather irritating.

Oh I think we past that point some time ago.

 

[D Moness]

Unless publishers keep games available for sale for a system as long as that system is for sale I am not against used games.

I mean for a lot of games released at the start of the ps3, x-box 360 or Wii most are only available as used games. Unless publishers find a cheap solution for this problem i say go used games.

 

[Siege_TF]

People who buy used games are generally leaches on the industry, supporting retailers and not publishers or, more importantly, the artists.

I'd have zero problem with a used-copy-block type deal on consoles.

Make like Christopher Reeve and get off your high-horse, it's only because we have the technology to potentially prevent used game sales that the industry has suddenly decided it's the devil itself. The thirty years (or so) of console gaming up until this point suggests that it is not, and given the choice I will side with history.

 

[medv4380]

It's sad only because the Game Industry seems to not understand the basic economics of the issue.

Game Stop is not the enemy and never was.

Given the numbers that Penny Arcade reported on a while back Game Stops puts about 1 Billion Dollars(used game sales minus profit) of Liquidity into the Hands of Gamers. The economy is how fast the money in the Gaming Market changes hands, and if you stopped that 1 Billion in Liquidity you'd cause the New Game Market to contract by 2 Billion since the Used game market would stop and the New Game Market would never be able to sell back.

Can the Game Industry survive a 1 or 2 Billion Dollar contraction?

The reason why Game Stop can get away with selling Used Games for 55 when the New Game is 60 is because the Publishers have jacked up the price over the years, and stopped decreasing their prices as much over time. They've gotten too good at publishing exactly as many units as needed to get as much profit as they can get, and then they got greedy and took a little more. Which resulted in the Used Game Market Growing to take up the slack for their greed.

Same thing happens in the Comic Book Industry. Marvel is actually very good and printing just enough comics to sell out, and DC has been very poor at projecting Sales and usually over Prints by a 100K issues. This is why DC comics have always been cheaper than Marvel Comics. The price gouging would be one of the main causes of the Comic Industry being damaged. Which is why DC did its Digital Launch and Price Cut. You can only sell 5$ comics to so many people, and after that they start to try to find any way they can to get them to save money and still get their entertainment.

The gaming industry needs to take a look at the older models that were used when they weren't shorting the market so much to keep prices higher for longer. Quarterly predictable price drops will reduce the Used Game Market without Killing the market Liquidity. Sure it will stop some people like me from buying some titles because 60$ is the price I will pay only for games that I want more of without question, and I will wait till it hits a predictable 40$ price in 6 months to a year, but they've done everything they can to stop those predictable price drops.

If they go through with killing Used Games on the Console Side of things we will see the Console Market contract to the size of the PC market, Increased Piracy to the Size of the PC market, and possibly kill the Console side of the Industry.

 

[Strazdas]

Hey to all the publishers and developers, I will stop buying used games for ever...if you can make it to where purchasing a new game doesn't leave me feeling irresponsible because I spent 60 dollars on a single form of entertainment solely for myself. If you can make it to where I can afford to buy new games without breaking my wallet, I'll swear off used games...but until then, that's the only way I can get more than maybe a couple of games a year.

Hi, my name is Steam, and almost everyday I have a special and have the most wonderful seasonal sales!

I don't like playing games on my PC. Plus, my little laptop doesn't play games well, in fact the only PC games I have is portal and the Sims.

I bought my consoles with the understanding that when I put in a game I know the hardware is exactly what I need to play the software and because the controller is easier on my hands and wrists.

Then you dfeserve the suffering you stated in your first post.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

People who buy used games are generally leaches on the industry, supporting retailers and not publishers or, more importantly, the artists.

I'd have zero problem with a used-copy-block type deal on consoles.

Make like Christopher Reeve and get off your high-horse, it's only because we have the technology to potentially prevent used game sales that the industry has suddenly decided it's the devil itself. The thirty years (or so) of console gaming up until this point suggests that it is not, and given the choice I will side with history.

Calm down. Christ. Pretty certain I didn't claim it was the devil--or do you just like passing around hyperbole?

Girl says she dislikes people enjoying the end product without supporting the creation and suddenly I'm on a pedestal? Pfft. Move along.

 

[RJ 17]

"My comment made in the interview released on the 24th of April, touching upon 'blocking sales of used games', was not intended to be taken seriously nor representative of the opinion of Crytek."

That's PR speak for "I done goofed. Sorry guys, since my opinion is easily swayed by those who fund my paychecks (i.e. gamers), I would like to clarify and state that I was just kidding. Please stop sending death threats to my goldfish."

 

[grigjd3]

I always love it when people who make far more money than I do complain about how they are not receiving enough of my money. Oh wait, I hate it when people do that. It makes me wish pain on them. Some mainstream game developers and publishers really sound like the most childish, entitled group of brats I have ever heard from.

Then again, there are still companies like Valve, Bethesda and CD Projekt RED focusing on quality. Come to think of it, they never seem to be worrying too much about money either, amazing how that works out...

 

[Pb Zeppelin]

Maybe if publishers lowered the price of a COMPLETE game (no day one DLC, or online passes) to $30-$40 there wouldn't be as much used game selling/trading. It may or may not work, nobody has tried it yet. But publishing giants can't keep expecting us to pony up $60+ on their game over and over again when they continue to treat consumers like trash.

 

[Racecarlock]

I didn't know being a smart consumer and trying to save money was a crime. But frankly, $20 is a lot less of a hit than $60. You want me to buy your games at full price? Make them worth full price, and try to reduce that price while you're at it. $120 for 2 games is too much.

 

[Agayek]

I still have to hear a single good reason why used game sales are different to, say, used car sales.

The only argument for this that I can think of is "used cars are inferior to new cars due to physical wear. What I'd say is: disks, too, suffer from the same thing. As long as there is a physical item, it will be less usable with every user.

Generally, the argument is that the difference lies in the fact that software is not a physical item. Thus, it is (or should be) subject to different rules.

When you buy software, you're not actually paying for the disc or the software itself, you're paying for a license to use the software.

There really isn't a good analogy for it in all of human history, up until now we've conducted business solely with physical products. Software is more a mathematical concept than it is an item, and that makes it different. The closest one can get to this type of thing is creating a used market for music. Not the CDs, the actual music. Kinda like a cover band that imitates their source absolutely flawlessly and sells tickets for their concerts at half the price of the source.

It's not quite the same, but it's as close as I can come up with.

Now, all of that said, I don't necessarily agree that it should be any different from a physical product. I happen to think that software licenses should be treated exactly the same as a physical product and you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want with them after the transaction. The only real restriction on it should be against copying and distributing the copies, as that's generating multiple licenses from the one that was purchased. Beyond that, people should be allowed to do literally anything they want with their software.

 

[Lt._nefarious]

Halle-f***ing-lujah what good news! Devs are starting to realise that people want used games the F*****G C***S!!!!!!!! (I'm not trying to offend its just this topic irks me... well not the topic of the thread the used games... Cause I'm anti-used game blocking... By which I mean I like used games... And... Nevermind...)

 

[medv4380]

When you buy software, you're not actually paying for the disc or the software itself, you're paying for a license to use the software.

You say that, but if my NES Zelda cartage stops working I can't just download a new one for free legally, and the same goes for my Skyrim PS3 Disk. The licence for Consoles are usually tied to the condition of the physical media that they are sold on. Now if it was a Download only or a PC game I'd agree that you're paying for the license and the license only.

Here's also another catch with Cars. You're actually getting a License there too. They are actually granting you License Rights to the car for each and every patent used in the car. Otherwise you couldn't legally use most of the Tech in your Car, and those licences must also be considered transferable since you're allowed to sell your car to someone else.

 

[Something Amyss]

And if any of you still made games that were worth buying at retail price, I'd actually care about your opinions.

Actually kind of glad that the Volition dude attacked used games. Made me feel better about my vow to not purchase another one of their games until their business model changes.

...though that applies to THQ as a whole, Saints Row is what I'm gonna miss most.

 

[Daveman]

If it drives up prices, why don't they make it impossible to resell but make the game cheaper?

Somehow, I fucking doubt they'll do that.

Nobody seems to realise that realistically a video game depreciates in value by at least £10 a year, even if it's good. So why not then make them free to play after, say, 3 years? With limited content and extra DLC for the long time fans. Everyone who was gonna buy it has, only more customers to get!

 

[Agayek]

You say that, but if my NES Zelda cartage stops working I can't just download a new one for free legally, and the same goes for my Skyrim PS3 Disk. The licence for Consoles are usually tied to the condition of the physical media that they are sold on. Now if it was a Download only or a PC game I'd agree that you're paying for the license and the license only.

Cartridges are a bit different, as there is copyrighted and specific tech involved inside the cartridge itself. In that case, you're actually paying for both, and it is effectively a physical product, as the game is irrevocably tied to the cartridge.

With the PS3 disk, you're actually legally allowed to download an ISO (read: exact copy) of the disc data and create a new one. The problem is that the developer is not obligated to provide you with an ISO, and uploading/sharing the data is technically illegal. You can legally make back-up copies of your disc-based games and use those infinitely however.

Here's also another catch with Cars. You're actually getting a License there too. They are actually granting you License Rights to the car for each and every patent in the car. Otherwise you couldn't legally use most of the Tech in your Car, and those licences must also be considered transferable since you're allowed to sell your car to someone else.

The difference there is that those licenses are tied to a physical, tangible product, which changes hands.

Software is a mathematical concept, and has no physical aspects tied to it. It's kinda like the difference between a SNES cartridge and an Xbox360 DVD or PS3 blu-ray. One has licenses for copyrighted data that's intrinsically part of the physical product, and the other has no physical properties at all.

Again, like I said in my last post, I think software licenses should be treated exactly the same as physical products (read: can be traded, borrowed, sold, etc, but not duplicated, nor is the producer obligated to replace it if somehow lost), but there are several differences between the two, and there is a logical basis for wanting separate rules for each.

 

[Something Amyss]

People who buy used games are generally leaches on the industry, supporting retailers and not publishers or, more importantly, the artists.

I'd have zero problem with a used-copy-block type deal on consoles.

I kinda hope it happens so people spouting crap like this can see just how integral "supporting retailers and not publishers" is to the gaming industry. The retailer has kind of a shitty deal, with some of the lowest markups in retail. Gaming is only profitable if you somehow take a "loss leader" mentality, which means without used games, dedicated gaming shops' days are numbered because the only people who can afford games without used sales are box stores and the like, with less diversity, selection and accessories.

Hooray for cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Now, keep in mind, this is a system that was gamed into existence by the publishers. They have not only price fixed, but created a ridiculous margin for markup, and declared war on their chain of distribution.

But damn those used gamers for keeping your retailers afloat!