Dark Knight Rises Shooting Leaves 12 Dead

[Calbeck]

Not sure if you missed it, but he didn't go through the front. He kicked the fire exit down.

No, he propped open the exit after buying a ticket and going inside. Then he got the gear and weapons from his car --- full SWAT tactical kit including tear gas.

Besides, he didn't have 1911's or some other small arm, he had military-grade weapons.

Police-grade, actually. The AR-15 is semi-auto, not full-auto, and as such is rarely used by military forces at all because it can't lay down suppression fire. It's a SWAT weapon. The rest of his guns were, likewise, the sort you'd expect to see in a police equipment locker.

which were bought legally, apparently.

As of right now, no one who's investigating this has said any such thing. They may have been; they may also have been bought through drug channels, as these weapons ALSO tend to be popular with gangs.

But really, this isn't a case of gun control en masse, but with more gun control for mentally unstable.

We already have gun control for the mentally unstable. However, as with Jared Loughner, if you aren't DIAGNOSED as mentally unstable, you're not going to be in any federal database that tells anyone you're a social liability. Likewise, this guy had a clean criminal record, too.

 

[Brad Shepard]

Only in America....

Who said that legalising the purchase of guns didn't cause harm?

This would never happen in Australia, even if a deluded 24 year old did believe he was an evil villain, because he simply couldn't get a hold of a gun without extreme difficulty.

Why get guns when everything in Australia is poisonous and trying to get you by hiding in your shoes?

 

[JokerboyJordan]

Gun Control isn't the answer to this, and it will never work in America due to Mexico and how fucked up the border is. As much as I'd like it to.

 

[worldruler8]

Not sure if you missed it, but he didn't go through the front. He kicked the fire exit down.

No, he propped open the exit after buying a ticket and going inside. Then he got the gear and weapons from his car --- full SWAT tactical kit including tear gas.

Besides, he didn't have 1911's or some other small arm, he had military-grade weapons.

Police-grade, actually. The AR-15 is semi-auto, not full-auto, and as such is rarely used by military forces at all because it can't lay down suppression fire. It's a SWAT weapon. The rest of his guns were, likewise, the sort you'd expect to see in a police equipment locker.

which were bought legally, apparently.

As of right now, no one who's investigating this has said any such thing. They may have been; they may also have been bought through drug channels, as these weapons ALSO tend to be popular with gangs.

But really, this isn't a case of gun control en masse, but with more gun control for mentally unstable.

We already have gun control for the mentally unstable. However, as with Jared Loughner, if you aren't DIAGNOSED as mentally unstable, you're not going to be in any federal database that tells anyone you're a social liability. Likewise, this guy had a clean criminal record, too.

In my defense, I'm not well-versed in guns or the like. also, since we're within the "crazy rumor" time within the story. I heard that he kicked down the door, guess I was wrong. Either way, he didn't go through the front. and my point with the gun control part isn't that we don't allow weapons to people with mental illness (we already do) but that we have some sort of psych test. Preferably ones that would be strict enough that people like him wouldn't pass. I know there could be leaks, but it can't be strictly criminal record (forgot to mention his nearly perfect criminal record D or mental record. It needs to be done at time of purchase. Maybe we already do something similar, I wouldn't know. I don't buy guns.

 

[Alex Crouch]

which were bought legally, apparently.

As of right now, no one who's investigating this has said any such thing. They may have been; they may also have been bought through drug channels, as these weapons ALSO tend to be popular with gangs.

Actually this is confirmed. He bought the shotgun and two pistols at a Bass Pro Shop. Haven't heard about the assault rifle, other than it was in fact bought legally. I heard something about Gander Mountain, though im not sure if you can buy assault rifles at Gander Mountain

 

[a ginger491]

*waits for the 'those people' to start preaching 'this is why we need to ban guns' crap*

It's purile and juvenile responses like this that allowed this, Columbine, Virginia Tech and every other massacre to happen in the first place.

Picture is a LITTLE old, but the point still stands...

I'll tell you this:
If just two or three people in that theater were armed, and went through the proper training...there would probably be a LOT less bodies.

The only thing strict gun control laws do is disarm LAW FOLLOWING CITIZENS.
IF a crazy person or a scum bag wants a weapon, they-will-find-a-way-to-get-it.

NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T DO CRAP LIKE THIS.
It's childish to think that 'banning all the guns' will stop criminals, or prevent massacres.

To the both of you, stringent gun laws or lack thereof probably would not have stopped this event from occurring. If an insane person is going to do something horrible they will find a way around laws and in the confusion a man who happens to have a gun will probably cause more harm than good. No matter what we do as a nation to snub it things like this will happen regardless. All the blame lies on the man who shot those people so get off your podiums and have your debate elsewhere. This is not the time or place to discuss petty politics. It is not right to use the tragedy of others to push your beliefs on people

 

[CruisingForBiddies]

EDIT: Whoospie I relised to the wrong person, sorry guys x

 

[UNHchabo]

Actually this is confirmed. He bought the shotgun and two pistols at a Bass Pro Shop. Haven't heard about the assault rifle, other than it was in fact bought legally. I heard something about Gander Mountain, though im not sure if you can buy assault rifles at Gander Mountain

I read on CNN that it was an AR-15, which is a common semi-auto rifle in the US. It "looks scary", but in general it's actually less powerful than most common hunting rifles. (the term "assault rifle" implies full-auto, which it doesn't sound like this was the case here)

 

[Calbeck]

Actually this is confirmed. He bought the shotgun and two pistols at a Bass Pro Shop.

Sorry, gonna have to ask for a quote on this, because having just checked the latest updates I could find online, there's been no such statement. That said, I would not be surprised if he did buy these three weapons over the counter since they're routinely sold to people of proper age with a clean background --- which he was --- for hunting and personal defense.

Haven't heard about the assault rifle, other than it was in fact bought legally. I heard something about Gander Mountain

1) Citing "something you heard" as being "fact"? Link please.

2) Assault rifles are, by definition, full-auto. That's so you can lay down suppressive fire as you assault an enemy position. An AR-15 is semi-auto. That's useful for police SWAT, but doesn't make it an assault rifle.

 

[Calbeck]

my point with the gun control part isn't that we don't allow weapons to people with mental illness (we already do) but that we have some sort of psych test.

Okay. When do you test people, how often, do you penalize them if they don't show up, and if you do penalize them how harshly? Do you fine them? Put out warrants for their arrest if they fit a profile? Deny them civil rights on basis of what their psyche profile says they might do, even if they don't actually seem to be impaired or dangerous to anyone?

And as we travel down this road, aren't we just creating thought-crime legislation that'll nail thousands of innocents to the proverbial wall in our effort to prevent these lone psychos from making bombs in the privacy of their own apartments?

 

[chadachada123]

We already have gun control for the mentally unstable. However, as with Jared Loughner, if you aren't DIAGNOSED as mentally unstable, you're not going to be in any federal database that tells anyone you're a social liability. Likewise, this guy had a clean criminal record, too.

In my defense, I'm not well-versed in guns or the like. also, since we're within the "crazy rumor" time within the story. I heard that he kicked down the door, guess I was wrong. Either way, he didn't go through the front. and my point with the gun control part isn't that we don't allow weapons to people with mental illness (we already do) but that we have some sort of psych test. Preferably ones that would be strict enough that people like him wouldn't pass. I know there could be leaks, but it can't be strictly criminal record (forgot to mention his nearly perfect criminal record D or mental record. It needs to be done at time of purchase. Maybe we already do something similar, I wouldn't know. I don't buy guns.[/quote]

I feel like that's a little strict, though. I may or may not have a mental illness depending on which psychiatrist you ask, and I'm sure that there are full-blown psychopaths that don't kill people nor have any urges to.

This would also cause problems if, say, in one state they find me unable to own a firearm, but in another I'm perfectly able to. Or if one doctor in one part of the state says I'm diagnosed, but another finds me healthy. Or what if I'm found diagnosed when I'm younger, but get better as I age. Or what if I take medicine to suppress my symptoms, should I be permanently barred from protecting myself in my own home because of a treatable condition?

At the very least, I think that these issues necessitate that it be a 'state issue' for individual states to decide. Some states may find moral or ethical problems with some of these answers, and it would be far too much hassle and would cost far too much to manage at the federal level (even IF the federal government had the legal authority to control such an issue).

There's still the fact that if this guy didn't get guns the legal way, he could have easily gotten the same equipment through illegal means. That, and if he had instead used explosives which he was already experienced in, he could have killed far more people.

 

[Mr Pantomime]

I heard the body count was 14 now. Two more people must have died in hospital.

 

[worldruler8]

my point with the gun control part isn't that we don't allow weapons to people with mental illness (we already do) but that we have some sort of psych test.

Okay. When do you test people, how often, do you penalize them if they don't show up, and if you do penalize them how harshly? Do you fine them? Put out warrants for their arrest if they fit a profile? Deny them civil rights on basis of what their psyche profile says they might do, even if they don't actually seem to be impaired or dangerous to anyone?

And as we travel down this road, aren't we just creating thought-crime legislation that'll nail thousands of innocents to the proverbial wall in our effort to prevent these lone psychos from making bombs in the privacy of their own apartments?

Bah, you have a point. If there is anything I absolutely despise about this horrible tragedy is the human response to try to find a way to prevent it, even though something like this really couldn't be prevented. As for the link about the legality of the purchase:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

it's there, somewhere. He bought two of the guns in a Bass Pro Shop, and the other two in two separate Gander Mountain Guns shops in the local area.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

On the Gun Control portion of the argument, is Tear Gas legal even with gun control? I mean, if he can get his hands on tear gas illegally, what's to stop him from getting a gun illegally?

 

[-Samurai-]

According to the news, he's now claiming the he's The Joker. Here we go. Time to ban everything.

Also, as far as gun control goes, a reporter today worded it perfectly;
"You can't legislate a madman."

 

[Antari]

Holmes was taken into custody wearing a large amount of Red makeup fashioned in a smile. He refered to himself as the joker at the time of the arrest. He should be free to go after about 6 months in a psychiatric hospital.

 

[irmasterlol]

Well...Fuck. That's all I can say.

"shocked and saddened by the horrific and tragic shooting ... As we do when confronted by moments of darkness and challenge, we must now come together as one American family."

And what kind of bullshit is THAT? Is he trying to be poetic or something? It was a soulless prick who decided to murder a crapload of people for attention. Just fuck.

I'm pretty sure that's a quote from The Dark Knight. It sounds like one. That guy actually has the world's darkest sense of humor.