Dark Souls isn't an RPG

Imperioratorex Caprae

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May 15, 2010
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Did you know that survival horror can ALSO be an RPG? All that takes is a system of rules that follow the RPG model and a storyline/setting that incites fear at every turn. Survival doesn't really count in Dark Souls as you WILL die. Aside from that, I can see it as a pure RPG horror game, the world itself is pretty fucked up when you think about it.
 

EightGaugeHippo

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While I respect your point of view and understand where you are coming from. I believe you to be wrong based on the simple fact that Dark Souls is an RPG and not a survival horror game.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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Also just to add to what others have said about it being a RPG. A PnP/LARPG are completely different in their level of freedom and interactivity as far as characters go player and otherwise than video game ones. What something a RPG in that sense does not classify a video game as a RPG.
 

Lawnmooer

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I guess it depends on how you look at it whether or not your own definitions of genres are fitting...

I find that Dark Souls is an RPG, since while the "Story" is themed on loneliness, survivability and the inevitable end (Based off what other NPC's you can meet talk about, they mostly mention about trying to not turn hollow by "Dying" too much and also mention how glad they are to actually see another non-hollow person)

The gameplay, is very action orientated, there's no puzzles, not really a huge amount of exploration (Most areas are fairly linear, with a few side paths and shortcuts and some "Hidden" items) the focus is mostly about the combat.

But there's also the RPG elements, stats which you CHOOSE to level (Not only do you choose whether to spend souls on leveling, you choose what stats you level giving character customization), there's many different weapons and armour all requiring different stats, different ways to upgrade weapons changing how stats effect them as well as their performance, there's a multitude of spells of 3 different catagories (Miracles, Sorceries and Pyromancies) requiring different stats and allowing customization of which ones you will use (Since you only have limited spell slots)

This comes off as a "Action RPG" with some horror themes (Not Horror in the sense that "Horror" games these days often are, which rely on jump scares and gore to try and cause fear, Dark Souls is horror in the sense that it creates tension since death has a fairly hefty cost (Being sent back to the last Bonfire you used and dropping all souls and humanity) this can also be combined with the shock of seeing some of the monstrosities you have to face for the first time (E.g. The Gaping Dragon looks intimidating as fuck, though later you realise it's a pushover))

Blanket terms are really not that great in my opinion (Not just for games, certain films and a lot of music also are not satisfied by the blanket terms/genres that they tend to get) but I get why they are necessary, in order to try and tell people who have no information about it what it's like.
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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I suppose that means Final Fantasy isn't an RPG either.

Neither is the Shin Megami Tensei franchise.

Or Mass Effect or Dragon Age or The Witcher or Torchlight or Diablo or Alpha Protocol or especially System Shock 2.

In fact, it might just be easier to say what is an "RPG".

Or, rather, we could recognize the fact that 1. "Survival-horror" is as much a theme as it is 'genre', and 2. Even beyond that, games can be multi-genre anyway. EDIT: Being a shooter or hack&slash game doesn't preclude it from being an RPG.

And actually, I'd say calling "survival-horror" a genre is wrong on pure technicality in reference to video games. Amnesia: The Dark Descent and Dead Space are both considered "survival-horror" games, but play drastically differently because their respective genres are first-person-puzzle-adventure and third-person shooter.

It'd be like saying Portal, Psychonauts, and Day of the Tentacle are all in the same genre because they're comedic titles, when comedy is the only similarity between them.
 

krazykidd

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Fireaxe said:
For it to be survival horror it would have to actually try and be horror, which it really doesn't. It's just an RPG with more of a survival theme.
A survival rpg. Now that's an idea i can get behind.

OT: Eh. EHHHHHHH. Never thought about it. I honestly would put it in the action/hack and slash genre to be honest. Seriously the genres are getting so mish/mashed i don't even know anymore. It does seem more like a Wrpg, but it was made in japan so technically it's a Jrpg.

Dem labels man.
 

WeepingAngels

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May 18, 2013
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I just wish people would stop going on and on about Dark Souls.

I liked Demons Souls alot for 20 or so hours and then the fascination died. I bought Dark Souls on the PC and lasted about 10 hours before getting bored with it. I get it though, some people think it's the second coming of Christ, can we stop talking about it now?

As for it being an RPG? Who cares? It is what it is, take it or leave it. Some people say Zelda is an RPG while others say it isn't. Some really snobby people claim that JRPG's in general aren't really RPG's because you don't get very many choices like you do in some WRPG's.

You know, I think "let's talk about Dark Souls" has had a longer shelf life than the severely overrated Skyrim. Enough already.


...and another thing, why is it always about Dark Souls, it's like people forget that there was another game (IMO a better one) before it in the same franchise.
 

Scars Unseen

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May 7, 2009
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WeepingAngels said:
I just wish people would stop going on and on about Dark Souls.

I liked Demons Souls alot for 20 or so hours and then the fascination died. I bought Dark Souls on the PC and lasted about 10 hours before getting bored with it. I get it though, some people think it's the second coming of Christ, can we stop talking about it now?
Well to be fair, people haven't shut up about the first coming of Christ yet, and that was over 2000 years ago. You may have to be patient.
 

WeepingAngels

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grimner said:
WeepingAngels said:
I just wish people would stop going on and on about Dark Souls.

I liked Demons Souls alot for 20 or so hours and then the fascination died. I bought Dark Souls on the PC and lasted about 10 hours before getting bored with it. I get it though, some people think it's the second coming of Christ, can we stop talking about it now?

As for it being an RPG? Who cares? It is what it is, take it or leave it. Some people say Zelda is an RPG while others say it isn't. Some really snobby people claim that JRPG's in general aren't really RPG's because you don't get very many choices like you do in some WRPG's.

You know, I think "let's talk about Dark Souls" has had a longer shelf life than the severely overrated Skyrim. Enough already.


...and another thing, why is it always about Dark Souls, it's like people forget that there was another game (IMO a better one) before it in the same franchise.
Actually playing Demon's Souls right now after a 6 month hiatus. did not realize I had stopped playing while my character was in the valley of defilement, oh silly me. And I reckon that the reason it's not as mentioned is because it's not cross console, and has therefore half the potential reach. Simple math, really

But as to your primary complaint, I have developed this fantastic, full proof method of not having to deal with topics that don't interest me: I don't open the topics. Simplicity itself, innit?
You're right of course but there has to be a little room for people to say "I am sick of hearing about ".
 

Scars Unseen

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May 7, 2009
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krazykidd said:
Fireaxe said:
For it to be survival horror it would have to actually try and be horror, which it really doesn't. It's just an RPG with more of a survival theme.
A survival rpg. Now that's an idea i can get behind.

OT: Eh. EHHHHHHH. Never thought about it. I honestly would put it in the action/hack and slash genre to be honest. Seriously the genres are getting so mish/mashed i don't even know anymore. It does seem more like a Wrpg, but it was made in japan so technically it's a Jrpg.

Dem labels man.
Well let's come up with a less ambiguous label then, shall we? Let's see... How about Gritty Survival Action Game with a Horror Theme and Role Playing Game Elements Taking place in a Metroidvania-like Environment Only without All That Platforming.

So that's... GSAGw/HTaRPGETPiaM-lEOw/oATP?

We may have to go back to the oversized boxes of the 90s for that one...
 

Britpoint

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Aug 30, 2013
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This really shouldn't be a discussion about Dark Souls. The fact of the matter is there are probably three or four different recognised 'genres' that we could quite happily slot Dark Souls into, and the same is true of many other games. The issue is that we tend to define game genres based on game mechanics, which is a terrible idea.

So an RPG is defined by whether it has statistical progression systems. Which means pretty much anything can be an RPG these days, even our FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS have plenty of "RPG elements" in them, and similar games can find themselves put in entirely different genres due to a technicality. For example, I would argue that Far Cry 3 is much more similar to Skyrim than it is Call of Duty, yet most people would call Far Cry 3 an 'FPS' and Skyrim an 'RPG', purely because in the fantasy world of the Elder Scrolls there aren't any guns.

My preference would be to use genres based on game dynamics, that is the type of gameplay that individual mechanics are trying to create. TotalBiscuit has a good term for games like Revengeance, DmC and Bayonetta which is based on game dynamics: "Spectacle Fighter". I think that's a pretty good genre label for those kind of games - suitably broad to encapsulate many variations of the type, but specific enough that you would never put them in the same genre as Uncharted, and doesn't require any specific mechanics such as "Must use a third person camera" to be included.

Can't imagine that sort of thing will catch on for a while, but that's what we should be striving towards in my view.
 

Kathinka

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Jan 17, 2010
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it's actually an interesting point that the OP brings up, not just limited to dark souls.
if for example skyrim would have tried to call itself an RPG ten or fifteen or so years ago with a straight face, people would have laughed hysterically. what passed as action-adventure at best not too far back is now considered role playing just for having an upgrade mechanic.
 

EyeReaper

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Aug 17, 2011
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Reminds me of all those "Mass effect 2/3 are not real rpgs" threads
I only played the slightest bit of Dark Souls, so I don't have the most well informed opinion on the series, but I do know about rpgs, and that, of all the genres of games, excluding Action/Adventure, which is pretty much every game (because which game doesn't have at least action or an adventure?) Rpg has the loosest, most flexible definition. So whether Dark Souls is or isn't an rpg really just boils down to personal taste.
 

el grandos tabetos

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Oct 30, 2013
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If Dark Souls is an RPG, so is Call of Duty.

In an RPG you're supposed to be playing the role of your character, you're supposed to make choices, interact and converse with friendly/neutral/hostile NPCs, walk around in populated towns and cities, explore new areas and check out their lore, go on quests that involve many things other than just killing stuff, it should have a story that's well presented and engaging, but most importantly, in a real RPG the combat should be a fun distraction, it should NOT be the sole thing you do in the game.
And as far as the combat is concerned, it should reflect the user's input to get you feeling you are the character you're playing (e.g. move mouse left->> my character's view moves left), it should not be a 3rd person avatar with a fixed camera that locks on enemies.

Dark Souls is basically a platformer, where you guide your 3d avatar level after level, killing monsters that are placed there for no other reason than to be killed, and has a practically non-existent story. Kinda like Ghouls and Ghosts, but in 3D. Many people love that kind of gameplay, but that doesn't make it an RPG.
 

Ishal

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WeepingAngels said:
...and another thing, why is it always about Dark Souls, it's like people forget that there was another game (IMO a better one) before it in the same franchise.
The funny thing? Most of the Dark Souls fans agree with you. I might even be one of those people. There is quite a disparity of folks who played the game. Some who played it for a while, like yourself, then lost interest. Then folks like me who've spent 60+ hours or more. Disparity like that tends to foster discussion, good or bad. Couple that with the "difficulty" (for some) and that Dark Souls 2 is coming, and well... not really going anywhere. Plus we all know how games journalism likes to stir up controversies.