Dark Souls isn't an RPG

[TheMigrantSoldier]

Despite thoroughly enjoying the game, I cannot honestly say that Dark Souls in an RPG, JRPG or WRPG otherwise. The games overall emphasis on survival, loneliness, and its theme of inevitability that the Age of Darkness will happen no matter what the Chosen Undead does seems to point in the direction that Dark Souls is a part of the Survival Horror genre.

EDIT: Since I can't think of anything else to add to the OP, I will simply ask that if you agree that Dark Souls is more Survival Horror than RPG or vice versa. Or do you believe that using blanket terms to describe a game does that game a great disservice?

Considering that you didn't lay out a lot of arguments, I'll have to assume your position. I find it pretty dumb that player agency disqualifies a game from being an RPG (cough Mass Effect 2 cough).

I wish the RPG label would be scrapped forever. It seems to be a false badge of honor for some gamers.

 

[klaynexas3]

Since I first played Dark Souls I never really felt that it was a straight up RPG, while it may use many RPG elements
(character customization mostly) at its center I always thought of it as a 3D metroidvania of sorts. As in, if you were to trim the fat around the game eventually all you would have left is, fighting monsters, navigating a labyrinth like map and beating bosses, and that sounds like a metroidvania game to me.

Along with an RPG I don't really consider that it's a survival horror ether. The setting is unsettling and the monsters often made me uneasy but I never felt that to be the focal point of the game, it was just an aesthetical choice that enriched the gameplay and helped in immersion as a nice side dish to the main meal of hot metroidvania action.

Well, the first metroidvania game had some light elements of JRPG to it, so really you don't even have to trim the fat of Dark Souls to hit the metroidvania gameplay, jut the character creation.

With that in mind, it's more RPG than just about any JRPG is, so if we aren't classifying this as an RPG, by rights we would be ditching JRPGs as a whole, and even then plenty of WRPGs come into question too.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

To me, this just gets into the whole "what makes an RPG?" type argument, which is sort of pointless because it's all in the eye of the beholder.

That being said, I never thought of Dark Souls as an RPG in the same vein as, say, Fallout or the Dragon's Age games, I always thought of it as more of an ARPG (like Diablo or Torchlight), just 3rd person and much, much harder.

 

[blackrave]

Depends
If you consider RPG any game where you gain XP and can improve character, then even few last Battlefield were RPGs
I still think that an true RPG needs more than character progression
I personally consider Deus Ex: HR one of the best RPGs of recent years.

As for Dark Souls, why can't it be both? Survival RPG?

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

I just assumed Dark Souls falls into the category of self torture simulator.

 

[Evonisia]

It's an RPG that has a dark theme. Halo 2 has an overarching theme that the Flood will inevitably win and there's nothing you can do about it, but it's still just an FPS. It even has very survival horror style missions.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

If it plays like Demon Souls, I would agree with Mr. Dizazta probably more than someone saying it is an RPG. The only thing RPG-y about Demon Souls was character equiptment and levels.

Dark Souls has covenants, and even then, the ability to take your character in multiple directions (faith, sorcery, pyromancy, dex, strength, etc., as well as the different endings, paths through the world and optional content such as killing Gwyndolin and interacting with certain NPCs) is very RPGish.

The gameplay of Demon Souls is based on exact timing similar to QTE's without screen prompts. While not exactly like QTE's in the sense that there isn't only one combination that is viable - but exact timing of presses is the key and there is no flex on that. No "spray and pray" or button spam style 'tactics'.

You could say the same about any game that takes place in real time. It falls squarely into the "action RPG" genre, but it's still an RPG.

The game's atmosphere and story is basically "How long can you survive while we try to kill you? No matter how long you do, you're doomed."

Um, no. It's really not.

People have said Minecraft is survival horror. If that is true Dark Souls is as well. If you don't see them as survival horror, I would put forth Minecraft as a sandbox and Dark Souls as an Adventure title. I align more with Action/Adventure or Survival Horror class over RPG myself. Action/Adv (Tomb Raider) and Survival Horror(Resident Evil) are also known for QTE exact timing presses as well.

Dark Souls has no QTEs beyond your bizarre interpretation of them. Besides that, a game can be both an action game and an RPG, and as for horror, that genre is classified by themes in the game rather than gameplay, which makes these genres a rather silly way of classifying things, but it can be considered survival horror also.

Quoting from Wikipedia (Reputable source, I know): "Survival horror is a subgenre of action-adventure video games inspired by horror fiction."

So I would say Dark Souls is a Survival Horror Action-RPG. I hesitate to call it adventure. Demon's Souls, which is more linear, maybe, but Dark Souls has many more paths and significant choices to make and so better fits into the RPG label.

 

[AntiChri5]

It's an RPG.

The gear and build you use combine to define your character. A heavy armour wearing knight with shield and sword feels entirely different from a backstabbing rogue. And not just in a gameplay sense but in a character sense. They have a fundamentally different perspective and approach to solving problems.

That's before we even get into the covenants.

There are certainly games that provide much much better roleplaying, But Dark Souls still provides it and so is an RPG.

 

[AntiChri5]

Dark Souls is like DnD but with the role-playing taken out; thus, Dark Souls is not an RPG because it doesn't have role-playing.

Dark Souls has roleplaying, why would you think otherwise?

 

[babinro]

Do you level up? Yes
Do you gain new equipment and gear? Yes
Do you choose your class and play style? Yes
Does it say "Action/RPG" on From Software's classification? Yes.

It's an RPG.

This.

The game is classified as an RPG and viewed by many players as one. It's safe to say the game falls under this category. If you feel it better falls under a different genre then that's fine. Games frequently need several sub-genre classifications to properly illustrate what they are. Saying that Dark Souls is a survival horror game doesn't remove it's RPG elements.

More importantly though it's become to difficult to simply classify games these days. Very few current age games fall nicely under it's classification as they frequently borrow elements from other games. At best you can use these traditional classifications as descriptors of the type of experience you'll have with the game.

 

[In Search of Username]

Despite thoroughly enjoying the game, I cannot honestly say that Dark Souls in an RPG, JRPG or WRPG otherwise. The games overall emphasis on survival, loneliness, and its theme of inevitability that the Age of Darkness will happen no matter what the Chosen Undead does seems to point in the direction that Dark Souls is a part of the Survival Horror genre.

EDIT: Since I can't think of anything else to add to the OP, I will simply ask that if you agree that Dark Souls is more Survival Horror than RPG or vice versa. Or do you believe that using blanket terms to describe a game does that game a great disservice?

Many action-RPGs don't let you have much interaction with the plot, but they remain RPGs. Dark Souls still lets you pick a class, pick your equipment, level up and upgrade your equipment however you like, in order to, y'know, roleplay. I can see survival horror in it too but it's definitely more RPG than that.

 

[loa]

It's a modern castlevania done right.
Who cares about labels.
They are pretty flawed anyway, what with a whole genre defined by its perspective and the act of shooting or such gems as "action" and what of "role playing" anyway?
You do "role playing" in pretty much every single game that isn't a puzzle game and it is worth noting that this descriptor was born in a time where telling a story in a game and especially cutscenes were very uncommon while pretty much every game nowadays tells one and "full motion video" is everywhere.

 

[AntiChri5]

It's a modern castlevania done right.
Who cares about labels.
They are pretty flawed anyway, what with a whole genre defined by its perspective and the act of shooting or such gems as "action" and what of "role playing" anyway?
You do "role playing" in pretty much every single game that isn't a puzzle game and it is worth noting that this descriptor was born in a time where telling a story in a game and especially cutscenes were very uncommon while pretty much every game nowadays tells one and "full motion video" is everywhere.

There is a difference between "playing a role" and "roleplaying".

"Playing a role" is a vauge and utterly meaningless nonsense term. Roleplaying (in gaming) is the act of defining a character within the context in the game. When roleplaying, you decide (to a greater or lesser extent) what your character is, what they do, why they do it and how they do it.

 

[loa]

It's a modern castlevania done right.
Who cares about labels.
They are pretty flawed anyway, what with a whole genre defined by its perspective and the act of shooting or such gems as "action" and what of "role playing" anyway?
You do "role playing" in pretty much every single game that isn't a puzzle game and it is worth noting that this descriptor was born in a time where telling a story in a game and especially cutscenes were very uncommon while pretty much every game nowadays tells one and "full motion video" is everywhere.

There is a difference between "playing a role" and "roleplaying".

"Playing a role" is a vauge and utterly meaningless nonsense term. Roleplaying (in gaming) is the act of defining a character within the context in the game. When roleplaying, you decide (to a greater or lesser extent) what your character is, what they do, why they do it and how they do it.

So most jrpgs are not rpgs because you can't switch jobs and the story is laid out for you instead of you filling out the blanks then. Slender is an rpg.

 

[AntiChri5]

It's a modern castlevania done right.
Who cares about labels.
They are pretty flawed anyway, what with a whole genre defined by its perspective and the act of shooting or such gems as "action" and what of "role playing" anyway?
You do "role playing" in pretty much every single game that isn't a puzzle game and it is worth noting that this descriptor was born in a time where telling a story in a game and especially cutscenes were very uncommon while pretty much every game nowadays tells one and "full motion video" is everywhere.

There is a difference between "playing a role" and "roleplaying".

"Playing a role" is a vauge and utterly meaningless nonsense term. Roleplaying (in gaming) is the act of defining a character within the context in the game. When roleplaying, you decide (to a greater or lesser extent) what your character is, what they do, why they do it and how they do it.

So most jrpgs are not rpgs because you can't switch jobs and the story is laid out for you instead of you filling out the blanks then. Slender is an rpg.

Of course JRPG's aren't RPG's. They are JRPG's.

What is Slender?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Dark Souls is like DnD but with the role-playing taken out; thus, Dark Souls is not an RPG because it doesn't have role-playing.

Dark Souls has roleplaying, why would you think otherwise?

Dark Souls barely has any NPCs and the NPCs that are there are just mainly merchants. If you take out the combat aspect of Dark Souls all you have left is walking about empty levels then. Whereas if you take out the combat from say Mass Effect, you still got plenty to do. Dark Souls RPG mechanics are horrible as well; a main stat that does literally nothing (Resistance), magic that doesn't cost an investment of a stat, you can carry everything you ever get, etc. Imagine how bad DnD would be if say Charisma did nothing or if a magic class didn't need to invest in a stat for their magic.

 

[AntiChri5]

Dark Souls is like DnD but with the role-playing taken out; thus, Dark Souls is not an RPG because it doesn't have role-playing.

Dark Souls has roleplaying, why would you think otherwise?

Dark Souls barely has any NPCs and the NPCs that are there are just mainly merchants. If you take out the combat aspect of Dark Souls all you have left is walking about empty levels then. Whereas if you take out the combat from say Mass Effect, you still got plenty to do. Dark Souls RPG mechanics are horrible as well; a main stat that does literally nothing (Resistance), magic that doesn't cost an investment of a stat, you can carry everything you ever get, etc. Imagine how bad DnD would be if say Charisma did nothing or if a magic class didn't need to invest in a stat for their magic.

So? NPC's do not determine whether or not something is an RPG.

Yeah, if you remove a central aspect of the game it stops being what it was. If you take the cars out of a racing game it stops being a racing game. Take the guns out of a shooter it stops being a shooter. And if you take the combat out of Dark Souls you have much less (there are still the covenants) options when it comes to defining your character. This argument is really silly.

I was starting to respond to your other arguments, about the gameplay, but then i realised it was completely besides the point. It's fine for you to dislike Dark Souls. Im not it's biggest fan. But it is still an RPG.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

So? NPC's do not determine whether or not something is an RPG.

Yeah, if you remove a central aspect of the game it stops being what it was. If you take the cars out of a racing game it stops being a racing game. Take the guns out of a shooter it stops being a shooter. And if you take the combat out of Dark Souls you have much less (there are still the covenants) options when it comes to defining your character. This argument is really silly.

I was starting to respond to your other arguments, about the gameplay, but then i realised it was completely besides the point. It's fine for you to dislike Dark Souls. Im not it's biggest fan. But it is still an RPG.

Many games like Resident Evil 4 have merchants; merchants don't make a game an RPG. The central aspect of an RPG is ROLE-PLAYING, not combat. If you take combat out of Mass Effect, it's filled with role-playing, quite the opposite for Dark Souls. Yes, Dark Souls has SOME role-playing aspects to it, but that is not the main focus of the game. It's like calling Bioshock Infinite a platformer because it has SOME platforming. To be a platformer, the game's core focus must be platforming; to be a shooter, the game's core focus has to be on the shooting; etc. Dark Souls core focus is obviously on combat, thus it's not an RPG. That has nothing to do with how good or bad I think Dark Souls is. How can you honestly say with a straight face that the core aspect of Dark Souls is role-playing?

 

[sanquin]

So dark souls is a survival horror rpg...big deal. Though I don't agree. Where is the survival part? You just respawn, and if you collect your souls you don't even lose anything but a bit of durability. Plus, horror? Yes the world is gritty (real gritty. Not CoD gritty) and the monsters are big and scary. But this level of gritty/scary doesn't make it a horror game, imo.

 

[ClockworkUniverse]

The problem we're running into here is that for ages, people have been identifying major game mechanics, which are important aspects of games, and referring to them as genres, which they aren't.

For example, in videogames, "RPG" just refers to a game that uses the leveling-up-your-character mechanic present in many tabletop roleplaying games. It's certainly important to know if a game does that, just like it's important to know that it has first-person shooting, but they aren't genres. For example, Pokemon, Fallout 3, and Dark Souls are all RPGs, but no two of them really fall into one genre. Similarly, Portal, Far Cry 3, and Call of Duty are all first-person shooters, but they're all in different genres as well.

So essentially what's happening here is that we've hit on a specific example of people noticing where the use of mechanics as genres falls apart, with Dark Souls being an RPG in terms of mechanics, but not being in the same genre as other RPGs they've played.

See also the fact that "roleplaying" in videogames can mean character advancement mechanics, OR in-depth narrative interaction with other characters, which don't really have anything to do with each other except that tabletop games tend to combine them.