David Gaider says Bioware decides what 'dead' means in Dragon Age 2

[witness51]

I know I'm missing the point but... WHY WOULD ANYONE KILL LELIANA?!?!?!

CAPTCHA: best; zerte

 

[Jaded Scribe]

Isnt that guy supposed to be fired cause of the way he wrote the story for homosexuals?

Anyway, I dont know why people are getting bent out of shape in a videogame. if they want to get on their cases about people being dead, perhaps when the character "dies" in battle, that should be the end. have the game stop, and not be able to be played agian, cause your character died. Then we'll see how much bitching we get for whether or not a character is dead.

Besides that, welll.. I havent really played DA2 so maybe someone can correct me on this, but do you have to play Origins to play two? Like, does it import your data? cause if you dont, then how does the game know what you did in the DAO?

You can import your data, or if you don't have an Origins game to import, or just don't want to, you can pick one of three prefabbed backgrounds.

 

[InsomniJack]

What scares me is that in ME3, theres the potential for your entire team to be dead. I liked that no matter what, some characters were NOT going to die in ME1, but in ME2, everyone could be gone. I'm a bit scared about this.

Technically, that can't be possible.

Spoiler: ME2 spoilers

If there's no one else that lives after the suicide run, then Shepard doesn't survive the mission either. And Bioware has stated that you won't be able to import the save where Shepard dies.

Don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible to have a great deal of your team wiped out. That can make quite a difference. But you have to work pretty hard to make sure that everyone dies in the final mission. And in the end, it won't carry over.

I'm just glad that Gaider doesn't write for Mass Effect. Even if Karpyshyn isn't as involved as before, Mass Effect 2 still had some great parts to it, new writer and all. It's looking pretty good to be optimistic about ME3.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I know I'm missing the point but... WHY WOULD ANYONE KILL LELIANA?!?!?!

CAPTCHA: best; zerte

My character was an atheist, wanted the secret knowledge that the cult offered (Reaver class), and didn't like Leliana getting uppity with him. Do the math.

 

[emeraldrafael]

WHY WOULD ANYONE KILL LELIANA?!?!?!

I did in DOA cause I wanted to bang Morrigan in one of my saves and that seemed like the only way she would have relations with me.

... but then again, I did the same thing to Morrigan in another save to get with Lelianna.

Snip

oka then, well, thats what I mean then.

 

[Eisenfaust]

well

Spoiler

in my story anders got shot in the head with an arrow at the end of awakening

but there he is in DA2, still alive... i didn't have a problem with it, presumably it was something to do with justice

 

[mireko]

Again, Bioware = best storytellers today.

That is entirely subjective. I find them to be average. If they decide to bring "characters we like back." in DA2 why not ME3 as well? I know it is a different writer, but BW has become quite conceited. I wouldn't put anything past them.

Average by what standard, though?

(Focusing on the Western market) We have Obsidian, BioWare and arguably Valve and 2K telling interesting stories. Compared to the rest of the field, I think they're doing pretty well.

I'm not sure why Gaider is so defensive in that thread, but that's his problem. It's a retcon, and they should just fess up to it. A lot of games use a "true ending" that leads into a sequel, and if we're holding BW to a higher standard than the rest of the market, then let's at least get that out in the open.

Also, I know I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but I still think DA2 had a massively superior plot to Origins. This is probably the first game I've ever played where morality is so obscure and ephemeral that it gets harder and harder to determine what good and evil even mean in the setting.

That's a very interesting direction to take a fantasy RPG, and if DA3 manages to combine that with the integrity and design quality of DA:O, it could become something we've genuinely never seen before.

[sub]That's assuming, of course, that they don't rush it and have everyone become abominations.[/sub]

 

[McNinja]

What'chu know 'bout RPGs?

Not much, apparently. I left Leliana alive, so it was interesting to see her cameo in DA2.

This ain't The Witcher, you don't get choices that mean something.

(for the full effect, please watch Epic VFX Time with FreddieW and Epic Meal Time. Read the first line in EMTs voice, then the last in FreddieWs).

well

Spoiler

in my story anders got shot in the head with an arrow at the end of awakening

but there he is in DA2, still alive... i didn't have a problem with it, presumably it was something to do with justice

Justice did bring back his first host to life, although not in the same way.

 

[secretsantaone]

LOL You people never cease to amaze me!

It's as if you've never heard of a character being killed and then brought back? Seriously?

We are talking about a fantasy game here people!!

He also said: "not saying what happened in that chamber never occurred... in fact, we're not saying anything yet, with regards to Leliana. You're free to make all the assumptions you like, of course"

From a developer characterised by tight story and meaningful decisions yeah.

He brings up a point though. Leliana was a very minor character in DA2. It is entirely possible that the choice at the Urn of Sacred Ashes will be addressed in DA3, as there wasn't a logical place for it to be addressed in DA2. Perhaps a blood mage brought her back to life (and DA2 sets precedence for that ability), or something else happened altogether.

Right now, we can only look at what we're given. But, considering we don't have the long view of the series Gaider and BioWare have, things that make no sense now will come back to be wrapped up later.

There was a LOT left out of DA2 that I've been trusting to be wrapped up in DA3 and/or DLC.

I'd be more inclined to believe that if they addressed it in some way in DA2, but they completely ignored it. For my playthrough she was quite a major character. For my second playthrough I decided to be an asshole atheist and take every opportunity to piss Alastair and Leliana off. I took her along to the urn of sacred ashes knowing that I could destroy it and was delighted when I found out I could kill her, in my mind making a major decision, only to have it shat upon.

But where should it have been addressed? In the three lines she had at the end? Or should she have told Hawke out of nowhere during her cameo in The Exiled Prince? "Oh, nice to meet you Hawke. You really do need to watch out for the Resolutionists. I'm working with the Chantry and Knight-Commander Meredith to put an end to it. By the way... I was resurrected by blood magic myself."


Honestly, I think it the bigger hole that she mentions traveling with the Warden if you don't recruit her at Lothering.

I honestly don't think they are trying to shoot down what happens in various playthroughs, or make your choices inconsequential (as shown by the large number that do influence the game). But, they couldn't have any recurring characters between games/xpacs without risking making a canon choice alienating fans that picked the one choice not supported.

Not somethink out of the blue like that. If they had to have her, let the save record her 'death' and add a line of dialogue along the lines of 'I bet he/she'll be suprised when she sees me, as last time we met he/she tried to kill me'. Just to show they recognise that she should be dead.

 

[Sylocat]

Gee, you'd almost think there was a way to bring people back to life in the Dragon Age universe... oh wait.

 

[secretsantaone]

Gee, you'd almost think there was a way to bring people back to life in the Dragon Age universe... oh wait.

Do share. Magic only works on KO'd characters, Final Fantasy style.

 

[Compatriot Block]

So, this is another point that critics of Dragon Age 2 are going to latch on to. Of course, in a game that they actually enjoyed, they would probably just accept the "Writers determine canon" explanation.

Gee, you'd almost think there was a way to bring people back to life in the Dragon Age universe... oh wait.

Do share. Magic only works on KO'd characters, Final Fantasy style.

Uh, how about Wynn? Did you do her quest?

Spoiler

She died, and was saved by a spirit from the Fade.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Wynne

 

[omegawyrm]

I've always thought of it like the endings in fighting games. Yeah, you can make certain outcomes happen, but ultimately the writers get to decide which ones become canon and affect later games in the series.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

snip

I never thought it blurred the line between good and evil. The Mages clearly needed to be supervised. I thought the Anvil decision in Origins did that. Anywho, we've been over it. You are in the DA2 camp, I'm in the "Mad Origins fan" camp. Maybe I should expand: The DA team of writers are average. The Mass Effect writers know how to execute a narrative (even if nothing happened in 2. Seems to be a trend starting).

 

[Trolldor]

Pretty huge Mass Effect spoiler in the OP there....

It came out in 07. There has to be a cutoff point sometime.
Dear lord. I just thought of something. What if they decide to just throw the Suicide Mission out the window? Now I'm afraid.

They did, they said that saves where shepard dies aren't going to be accepted in ME3.

That's actually quite reasonable.
You can't continue Shepard's Story in ME:3 if he died in a ditch.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Isn't this like getting the bad ending in ME2 then complaining that there is a ME3? They decide what choices are cannon surely.

 

[Trolldor]

What'chu know 'bout RPGs?

Not much, apparently. I left Leliana alive, so it was interesting to see her cameo in DA2.

This ain't The Witcher, you don't get choices that mean something.

(for the full effect, please watch Epic VFX Time with FreddieW and Epic Meal Time. Read the first line in EMTs voice, then the last in FreddieWs).

well

Spoiler

in my story anders got shot in the head with an arrow at the end of awakening

but there he is in DA2, still alive... i didn't have a problem with it, presumably it was something to do with justice

Justice did bring back his first host to life, although not in the same way.

And once again with the Witcher nonsense.

 

[jonyboy13]

Plot holes in DA2?
/shocked

To be honest, I am quite shocked to see more shit in DA2, didn't think it was possible...

 

[Jaded Scribe]

Again, Bioware = best storytellers today.

That is entirely subjective. I find them to be average. If they decide to bring "characters we like back." in DA2 why not ME3 as well? I know it is a different writer, but BW has become quite conceited. I wouldn't put anything past them.

Average by what standard, though?

(Focusing on the Western market) We have Obsidian, BioWare and arguably Valve and 2K telling interesting stories. Compared to the rest of the field, I think they're doing pretty well.

I'm not sure why Gaider is so defensive in that thread, but that's his problem. It's a retcon, and they should just fess up to it. A lot of games use a "true ending" that leads into a sequel, and if we're holding BW to a higher standard than the rest of the market, then let's at least get that out in the open.

Also, I know I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but I still think DA2 had a massively superior plot to Origins. This is probably the first game I've ever played where morality is so obscure and ephemeral that it gets harder and harder to determine what good and evil even mean in the setting.

That's a very interesting direction to take a fantasy RPG, and if DA3 manages to combine that with the integrity and design quality of DA:O, it could become something we've genuinely never seen before.

[sub]That's assuming, of course, that they don't rush it and have everyone become abominations.[/sub]

^^This.

I'm not trying to sound like a broken-record fangirl, but we have to allow them to pick a direction and follow it. Sometimes that means that choices we make will get retconned.

Should Gaider just say it outright, "Sorry, but we felt with the direction the story is taking that it was necessary to adjust some of the options we gave the player before." sure.

But, considering the Hero of Ferelden is looking to play a big role, do you really expect them to re-set it up and release essentially two games for those that took The Ultimate Sacrifice and change the entire plot of DA3 based around that?