Dead Space 2 Is No Resident Evil 4
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Recommended Videos
It's a great game. And I had fun. That's what matters the most.
Also it may not be scary by Amnesia standards, but if you allow yourself to be taken in by the experience, give yourself a little room for the game to seep in, then the game becomes a little creepy. I think the problem is that most people went into Dead Space 2 with a brick wall.
Also it may not be scary by Amnesia standards, but if you allow yourself to be taken in by the experience, give yourself a little room for the game to seep in, then the game becomes a little creepy. I think the problem is that most people went into Dead Space 2 with a brick wall.
I'm in the Ironman 2 with the suitcase suit ruined the realistic realism of Tony Stark/Ironman. His suit case should have been some flight boots, basic leg and arm guards, gloves, a small front and back body armor and face helm; still leaving him largely unprotected, but giving him the basic necessities - not some folding armor with a trillion moving parts which unfold up onto him.
It felt real in the first movie, when Ironman needed the assistance of machines to bolt on and off his armor.
It felt real in the first movie, when Ironman needed the assistance of machines to bolt on and off his armor.
I was thinking along the same lines with the helmets at first, but then one moment came along in the game that almost sold me on them. Spoilers:
At the top of the Church when Isaac meets and is betrayed by what's-her-name, he takes his helmet off. It is still off when the gunship blows out the windows and throws the entire room into vacuum, but the helmet quickly unfolds. In the event of sudden exposure to a hazardous atmosphere like this where the suit's wearer might be incapacitated by the shock of sudden exposure to vacuum, or hazardous gas, or any number of other things, it may not be possible for them to put a more traditional helmet on manually. His suit could be configured to automatically deploy the helmet in the event of sudden exposure to dangerous conditions, which would be a benefit for suits designed specifically for engineers.
Now, that leaves the question of "why not just keep a more traditional helmet on at all times?" If you're working in a place where you might be spontaneously decompressed it may be a good idea, but I don't think Yahtzee's QED is as clear as it may seem. I'd suggest there are probably disadvantages for someone trying to perform delicate repair tasks while wearing a helmet, especially one that seems to use a holographic visual display. Maybe you can just see what you're doing better without one on, or maybe wearing one is just incredibly uncomfortable (but an evil he's willing to suffer in the more extreme environment he finds himself during the game). Hell, maybe, on a more typical, indoor job, they'll just be wearing the suit and a more standard hardhat, leaving the fold-up helmet stowed away for when that level of protection is actually necessary. In any case, there's still little good reason why you wouldn't just keep a more traditional helmet on at all times, but I think Yahtzee's overlooking one of the main advantages of a mechanical helmet like this - automatic deployment.
This does still leave the question of why the hell other suits, like the Security Suit, for example, have the same feature - you'd think soldiers would want their helmet on any time they were on duty, pretty much. But whatever
At the top of the Church when Isaac meets and is betrayed by what's-her-name, he takes his helmet off. It is still off when the gunship blows out the windows and throws the entire room into vacuum, but the helmet quickly unfolds. In the event of sudden exposure to a hazardous atmosphere like this where the suit's wearer might be incapacitated by the shock of sudden exposure to vacuum, or hazardous gas, or any number of other things, it may not be possible for them to put a more traditional helmet on manually. His suit could be configured to automatically deploy the helmet in the event of sudden exposure to dangerous conditions, which would be a benefit for suits designed specifically for engineers.
Now, that leaves the question of "why not just keep a more traditional helmet on at all times?" If you're working in a place where you might be spontaneously decompressed it may be a good idea, but I don't think Yahtzee's QED is as clear as it may seem. I'd suggest there are probably disadvantages for someone trying to perform delicate repair tasks while wearing a helmet, especially one that seems to use a holographic visual display. Maybe you can just see what you're doing better without one on, or maybe wearing one is just incredibly uncomfortable (but an evil he's willing to suffer in the more extreme environment he finds himself during the game). Hell, maybe, on a more typical, indoor job, they'll just be wearing the suit and a more standard hardhat, leaving the fold-up helmet stowed away for when that level of protection is actually necessary. In any case, there's still little good reason why you wouldn't just keep a more traditional helmet on at all times, but I think Yahtzee's overlooking one of the main advantages of a mechanical helmet like this - automatic deployment.
This does still leave the question of why the hell other suits, like the Security Suit, for example, have the same feature - you'd think soldiers would want their helmet on any time they were on duty, pretty much. But whatever
I also didn't understand what the eye thing had to do with the plot. I thought the game would be over after that but apparently it did absolutely nothing.
The helmet thing was a pretty stupid compliant I thought though. Sure, maybe it doesn't make complete sense to you but that's why it's called science fiction and set in the future. If you can't make sense of it just remember there are things in science today that we can't make a bit of sense of already, like dark matter. To reiterate what Albert Einstein said our imagination is the limit to our abilities to create so anything is possible, especially in a fictional game.
I pretty much agree with everything else except for your statement saying that having to argue over it's intention means it missed it's intention altogether. You said there was creepy moments in RE4 but I didn't think so, so there's an arguement about the intention of that game. I even recently said to my friend lately that survival horror hasn't really been meant as scary since RE4 came out. To me a survival horror game has always been an action survival game with horror methods within it, and I like it that way.
As I said, I pretty much agree with everything you said, but it still doesn't change my mind on Dead Space. I find it scary and I play almost nothing but horror games and watch horror movies. Other people find it scary, all types, even people more in the loop of what is horror or what makes a game great. If you don't find it to be scary then that's fine but there's nothing wrong with finding it scary and I think it does deserve the credit it is given.
The helmet thing was a pretty stupid compliant I thought though. Sure, maybe it doesn't make complete sense to you but that's why it's called science fiction and set in the future. If you can't make sense of it just remember there are things in science today that we can't make a bit of sense of already, like dark matter. To reiterate what Albert Einstein said our imagination is the limit to our abilities to create so anything is possible, especially in a fictional game.
I pretty much agree with everything else except for your statement saying that having to argue over it's intention means it missed it's intention altogether. You said there was creepy moments in RE4 but I didn't think so, so there's an arguement about the intention of that game. I even recently said to my friend lately that survival horror hasn't really been meant as scary since RE4 came out. To me a survival horror game has always been an action survival game with horror methods within it, and I like it that way.
As I said, I pretty much agree with everything you said, but it still doesn't change my mind on Dead Space. I find it scary and I play almost nothing but horror games and watch horror movies. Other people find it scary, all types, even people more in the loop of what is horror or what makes a game great. If you don't find it to be scary then that's fine but there's nothing wrong with finding it scary and I think it does deserve the credit it is given.
Ah... no.hitheremynameisbob said:This does still leave the question of why the hell other suits, like the Security Suit, for example, have the same feature - you'd think soldiers would want their helmet on any time they were on duty, pretty much. But whatever
That's probably the suit that makes the most sense to have a portable helmet. If you've ever had the honor of serving in the military and having to work twelve hour shifts with that helmet on your head you know you want it off any few minutes you feel you won't be under random fire. I'd love to have a helmet I didn't have to carry around and would just assemble itself on my head the moment I needed it, that would be amazing. But even if the helmet was climat controlled and weightless I wouldn't want to wear it all the time. That would be the equilvelent of being inside of a armored coffin that you could do everything inside of as you could outside but you'd still want to get out of it every so often.
I'm not saying they'll want to wear it all the time, but if the only time you're taking it off is "for a few minutes when you won't be under random fire" is it REALLY that hard to just hold onto it? It's just a couple minutes, is it that much of a hassle? I think the suits it would make the most sense for are ones designed to function for significant periods without the helmet on. Soldiers that are wearing the suit are likely going to want the helmet, as well, the majority of the time. If they're in combat, they'd want the helmet, and if they're not in combat, then they're probably not wearing the suit at all, and thus the helmet doesn't matter. If it's just a couple minutes break in the middle of a fight, it seems excessive to go through all that trouble to include a retractable helmet (especially if this design compromises some of its protective ability) when you could just take it off manually for a minute. It's still a potential advantage, but not nearly as much as it would be to someone who's job doesn't really necessitate the helmet a significant amount of the time, such as an on-call repairman who wants to be ready for whatever he's needed for (and thus has the suit on) but who may not actually be doing work that requires the helmet the majority of the day.Perfice said:Ah... no.hitheremynameisbob said:This does still leave the question of why the hell other suits, like the Security Suit, for example, have the same feature - you'd think soldiers would want their helmet on any time they were on duty, pretty much. But whatever
That's probably the suit that makes the most sense to have a portable helmet. If you've ever had the honor of serving in the military and having to work twelve hour shifts with that helmet on your head you know you want it off any few minutes you feel you won't be under random fire. I'd love to have a helmet I didn't have to carry around and would just assemble itself on my head the moment I needed it, that would be amazing. But even if the helmet was climat controlled and weightless I wouldn't want to wear it all the time. That would be the equilvelent of being inside of a armored coffin that you could do everything inside of as you could outside but you'd still want to get out of it every so often.
In either case, the benefit is most likely simply one of convenience, and as mentioned, this is probably a lot of additional cost to incur for that when you could have a (likely more reliable, sturdier) helmet that you just put on and take off manually.
When I said that we'd like to take it off for a few minutes I didn't mean for you to take it literally. You can take your helmet off as long as you're in a sheltered building or something because helmets are pretty heavy when you have to wear them for hours on end. Soldiers don't usually need to wear their helmets all the time unless there's an actual threat present but they always have to have it on them if a threat could arise. Yes, you do have to always wear your armor even if you're not wearing your helmet at the time. For one it takes alot longer to put armor on than it does for the few seconds of the helmet.hitheremynameisbob said:
It's not just conveinance either, because a security officer doesn't need to wear their helmet all the time. They probably won't see any action their entire career but if they do it's very beneficial to have a helmet at that time. Also, because while under fire time seems to move more quickly than you may think it does so it would help extremely if you didn't have to wait to put on your helmet, make sure it fits right, and THEN start shooting back. I'm not arguing that engineers wouldn't need them or that the helmet would be more expensive or else we'd all have them by now but don't try saying it makes no sense or has no practical use.
Ah, don't pick too hard on the fold up helmet thing, those 25th century engineers worked hard to make it look cool and it's doing it's job pretty fucking well!
But if wasn't for the cool factor I'd agree with you -- the proposed singularity simply wouldn't do it. Some things LOOK indestructible on Dead Space, but they grind too much and make too loud noises to be, maintenance free, working correctly all the time. In a scenery where a workbench makes the sound of a trainwreck I'd seriously be conservative about the state of my fold up security helmet after a few bumps.
But if wasn't for the cool factor I'd agree with you -- the proposed singularity simply wouldn't do it. Some things LOOK indestructible on Dead Space, but they grind too much and make too loud noises to be, maintenance free, working correctly all the time. In a scenery where a workbench makes the sound of a trainwreck I'd seriously be conservative about the state of my fold up security helmet after a few bumps.
Not to mention that the girl carries the iron man suit. The only reason that he can walk in it is because it walks for him... because it weighs a tonne. And that chick is just walking around like it had maybe two small bricks in it.
----edit----
I am prepared to admit that dead space two is far flung enough in the future to utilize nano-bots to deconstruct and rebuild a helmet... but the animation doesn't really look like nano-bots.
----edit----
I am prepared to admit that dead space two is far flung enough in the future to utilize nano-bots to deconstruct and rebuild a helmet... but the animation doesn't really look like nano-bots.
Who cares about realism... it's simply painful to watch, because it's impossible. (wow, thinking about things a lot - that's herecy, right). And you are to witness it over and over again, then the question "how" overshadows the rest of the work (they can fix it by somehow "explaining" it, but they don't). Sure, idk; no obligation to watch it. But then you wake up one day and realize that all the people started calling it "normal" a while ago, and you missed the train to explain your concern. And then you find a lot of people bashing any less idiotic ideas because they think unfolding helmets are "cooler".Blitzwing said:
And thus genericness is born.
Difference in tastes. I realize that an average Joe just wants to shoot things (that yell at you). I guess it comes from the hastily selected wives or something. I don't care; wild guess.
On another note, there's just no implied value to such creations (you have to build the value - but they mostly don't care to). They are imaginations of someone.
If it were a believable helmet, you have a lot more to associate it to. It triggers tenfolds more of thought/value/emotion than that of somebody's crazy imaginations that don't make sense.
Not to mention the inputs are conflicting. On one side - very serious game. On the other - total lack of attention to detail. So which is it? (This is what Yahtzee says, in short.)
In the end, the fact I have no idea what did the artist imply is a major issue. Apparently, they just cough up random imaginations these days and call it a day... and it gets more and more prevalent. That's what disturbing - you're using such high technology for what? Random imaginations that make no sense? This is a sure way to spiral into dark ages of google-idiots who know nothing but what the technology tells them. I'm not saying this is what will happen - smart people don't treat games seriously and will probably keep us in order with new gadgets. But it's just people like me who treats this as a form of art and who will get upset because of how illogical it gets further down the road.
Look at the games of the past. You can't treat them seriously; it's apparent they're purely for fun. Now look at the games of today. They treat themselves oh so seriously.
So... who's "just the video game" now? Look at them; they are serious. Yet they totally fail at it.
The problem with games that try to be multi-genre is that some types can be combined easily and others need work.
Consider the progression of the Jak and Daxter series from platformer to racing game. There's little to think about from switching from one to the other. To highlight that consider including a racing section in Soul Reaver or Silent Hill.
From that it can be seen that action and horror don't mesh easily. It's difficult to be frightened of monsters when you're toting five bad-ass weapons; difficult to take in the subtle psychological message while pelting down a hall; and mostly difficult to be shocked by the leaping monster for the fifteenth time around.
As it's difficult the tendency seems to become to either artificially remove the players weapon capability (by losing the guns, ammo, or making a monster immune to nearly everything); forcing you to pay attention to the deep horror of the game through a cutscene (interactive or otherwise) or make more things jump out of you and shout boo.
This doesn't mean it's impossible to combine the two though. Consider System Shock 2; it's not perfect but it melds the two genres very well. The classics - a deserted ship and an infected crew. You have always have a small inventory so limited ammunition and weaponry; and you get the horror of the crew attacking you while both apologising and warning you at the same time. But this type of game takes time and may not appeal to the right 'demographic' so just throw some gore around and make things jump out at the player; much easier, much quicker, and thus much cheaper.
Consider the progression of the Jak and Daxter series from platformer to racing game. There's little to think about from switching from one to the other. To highlight that consider including a racing section in Soul Reaver or Silent Hill.
From that it can be seen that action and horror don't mesh easily. It's difficult to be frightened of monsters when you're toting five bad-ass weapons; difficult to take in the subtle psychological message while pelting down a hall; and mostly difficult to be shocked by the leaping monster for the fifteenth time around.
As it's difficult the tendency seems to become to either artificially remove the players weapon capability (by losing the guns, ammo, or making a monster immune to nearly everything); forcing you to pay attention to the deep horror of the game through a cutscene (interactive or otherwise) or make more things jump out of you and shout boo.
This doesn't mean it's impossible to combine the two though. Consider System Shock 2; it's not perfect but it melds the two genres very well. The classics - a deserted ship and an infected crew. You have always have a small inventory so limited ammunition and weaponry; and you get the horror of the crew attacking you while both apologising and warning you at the same time. But this type of game takes time and may not appeal to the right 'demographic' so just throw some gore around and make things jump out at the player; much easier, much quicker, and thus much cheaper.
Yahtzee's always going on about the finger removal in Heavy Rain... when I played that it had no effect on me whatsoever. the whole game was a shambles when I realised you couldn't actually die during any of these "trials" Ethan had to go through... so i was just saying "oh get it over with you wimp, you're invincible!"
Where Dead space 2 is concerned, its followed the path of most american horror series... its the sequel to a game thats already revealed all the horror, so you know what's coming. i played this game on the hardest difficulty from the start exactly because of this. What difficulty does yahtzee play games on?
harder difficulties are made for people wanting to be scared while the "casual" setting is to make it accessible to your dad who saw The Thing in the seventies and thought he'd try a horror game.
I'll agree though, this game was even pretty easy on the hardest difficulty available from the start, its a shame you have to beat the game to unlock the HARDEST difficulty.
The scares in this game went the only way they could have. Isaac knows the enemy, you're playing as the guy who's seen it all. He's like Van Helsing now.
Where Dead space 2 is concerned, its followed the path of most american horror series... its the sequel to a game thats already revealed all the horror, so you know what's coming. i played this game on the hardest difficulty from the start exactly because of this. What difficulty does yahtzee play games on?
harder difficulties are made for people wanting to be scared while the "casual" setting is to make it accessible to your dad who saw The Thing in the seventies and thought he'd try a horror game.
I'll agree though, this game was even pretty easy on the hardest difficulty available from the start, its a shame you have to beat the game to unlock the HARDEST difficulty.
The scares in this game went the only way they could have. Isaac knows the enemy, you're playing as the guy who's seen it all. He's like Van Helsing now.
These helmets come from hammerspace [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Hammerspace] they don't exist in material form until they are needed! XD
I'm not sure if it was mentioned by someone before me, but Isaac is an engineer and does welding and the like. The 'helmet' in question is probably just a fancy face shield you see welders use all the time. They aren't designed for taking massive hits by anything. They are made just to protect your eyes from damage and your face from the sparks. Even the design slightly resembles a welders mask.
As for the rest of the article, I agree with Yahtzee. Including actual helmets that fold-out.
As for the rest of the article, I agree with Yahtzee. Including actual helmets that fold-out.
I remember when Stargate did it (not the TV series, the original movie).. As far as I'm aware that was the first time anyone had seen foldy-out helmets in a visual medium and it was awesome.
I think it's just been done so many times in a vain attempt to recreate that moment that it's lost all credibility. We need to push the envelope.. how about a foldy helmet which simultaneously catches fire and summons bears whenever it is used.
I think it's just been done so many times in a vain attempt to recreate that moment that it's lost all credibility. We need to push the envelope.. how about a foldy helmet which simultaneously catches fire and summons bears whenever it is used.
"If there was anything still recognizably human about them, if they had intact vocal chords that scream or beg for death like an actual person in pain"
Can't believe they still overlook stuff like this for horror games. Fictional monsters are far less scary than twisted, contorted and anguished humans.
Can't believe they still overlook stuff like this for horror games. Fictional monsters are far less scary than twisted, contorted and anguished humans.
"like psychological horror as attempted by Michael Bay" perfect one-line description there.
I don't really agree that RE4 was more horrifying than Dead Space (although I haven't played DS2). It's about on par, although I liked RE4 more, just because its gameplay was so revolutionary at the time, and genuinely fun. The camp humor also worked fairly well. I'm not sure the "human" element really made it much more terrifying, as all of the enemies were pretty cartoony in nature. The only thing in RE4 that significantly creeped me out was the first time playing the village scene, the first time with the Novistadors in the sewers, and then the Iron Maiden's/Regeneradors in the labs.
The rant on the helmets thing was pretty hilarious. I have to agree about how preposterous they are. It's clearly one of those things that is done for one reason only: because it looks cool.
I appreciate that you can always poke fun at your own criticisms. The Half Life line at the end was great.
Also, how did you not know that's what happened to the villagers already? It was explained throughout the game, especially in the documents you find.
I don't really agree that RE4 was more horrifying than Dead Space (although I haven't played DS2). It's about on par, although I liked RE4 more, just because its gameplay was so revolutionary at the time, and genuinely fun. The camp humor also worked fairly well. I'm not sure the "human" element really made it much more terrifying, as all of the enemies were pretty cartoony in nature. The only thing in RE4 that significantly creeped me out was the first time playing the village scene, the first time with the Novistadors in the sewers, and then the Iron Maiden's/Regeneradors in the labs.
The rant on the helmets thing was pretty hilarious. I have to agree about how preposterous they are. It's clearly one of those things that is done for one reason only: because it looks cool.
I appreciate that you can always poke fun at your own criticisms. The Half Life line at the end was great.
As I understand it, they make the best bulletproof vests, but it's a one-time affair. Once you're shot, the vests protective capabilities in that area are done (because the ceramics shatter). So Isaac would be needing to change suits every 5 minutes. Then again, Isaac really isn't being shot at much. Mostly stabbed and clawed at. I dunno if ceramics would help him with low-velocity stuff like that.ScotRotum said:
Was this only in the Wii version? I totally don't remember it being there when I beat RE4 on Gamecube.rollerfox88 said:
Also, how did you not know that's what happened to the villagers already? It was explained throughout the game, especially in the documents you find.