Death Mechanics and Dark Souls

[him over there]

You know what I find strangest in this article about failure conditions, death, flow, the disconnect between games with challenges and win/lose conditions and interactive experiences? That in the entire article loss is instantly equated into death. I just feel it's very strange that we are constantly discussing immersion and storytelling and interactive experiences yet we still instantly jump to death and enemies as obstacles. That we can't evolve past "You kill the things" to win or "You get dead, kid" as a lost. I don't want to come off as one of those violent games are evil type but I just find it strange that we get hung up and use death and combat as central themes regardless of the story or message games are trying to tell.

Nice article, I honestly don't know how we can remedy the problem since depending on your views or personal preference the act of coming back to life can both break the flow of plot and the gameplay.

 

[Kanatatsu]

Yahtzee's a funny guy and I like his videos, but godamn he is one whiny *****.

 

[K_Dub]

Yeah, the idea of infinite lives seems kinda arbitrary if you have to go through a "Game Over" screen everytime you die. Perfect example for me would be God of War 3. Love the game to death, but I'm playing through the hardest difficulty right now, and the game treats me like an idiot, asking me if I would like to quit the game or load my previous checkpoint everytime I die. This breaks the flow of the game, and just aggravates me, causing me to die more.

No God of War 3, I don't wanna quit. Now load up my last checkpoint so I can get back to murdering Gods. If i wanna quit the game, I'll choose to from the options screen, or just turn the system off!

 

[ascorbius]

I played Treasure Island Dizzy when I was a kid and can honestly say that I beat it! It was one of the hardest games I ever played... but I stuck with it anyway.. all the way through the kick in the balls ending.

I tell you this though, if you do manage to beat TID, Dark Souls will be a walk in the park!

I was going to post a link to an emulator I found today where you could experience the difficult masterpiece that Treasure Island Dizzy is, however after doing a little research, it seems that CodeMasters still won't allow online distribution of the game (any of their games) for some reason (According to World of Spectrum). So posting a link to the emulator would be posting a link to copyrighted material.. which is a real shame.

 

[DioWallachia]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YATHZEE YOU FOOL!!!!! ONE NORMALY GETS MENTALY BROKEN AFTER PLAYING A BAD MMORPG LIKE GLOBAL MU ONLINE, NOT A NORMAL RPG!!! And we are in the first month of the year!! What horrors will get the aprobal of Yathzee now that he is unable to care???

 

[CrescentCrux]

I think that one's own learning curve does help in some instances of the lives/death mechanics, as well as in Dark/Demon's Souls. I did not take long to figure out how to play the game, but When I started I had felt like I was playing an MMO grinding the early guys till I got enough levels to wipe the next area of baddies by shear force. I quickly changed and got more skilled and adaptive to enemies by waiting, watching, and learning patterns of enemies before just jumping head long into an area. I started to enjoy the thrill of almost death, but narrow escape though sheer luck, skill, or will power. Helping others also helped learn patterns for bosses which I then took unto my own world, not withstanding getting help from people for bosses makes the world Very easy. But I do know what you mean the 'Zone of I don't care, get shit done now' Though that usually only hits me when I work (insert winking smile here)

 

[DTWolfwood]

I believe thats a feeling MMO players get too when they have to grind to the next level. I sure as hell remember that until i manage to step back and asked myself "WHY?" then boredom washed over me and i hated regular cooldown watching MMOs.

 

[Havoc Himself]

I'm about half way through Dark Souls and I actually really enjoy the game. I love deep RPGs and I love difficult games, so Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are perfect for me. I've never found emotional numbness while playing either game though, I feel that the games are pretty fair so I don't rage at them often. When I do start to get mad at the game I just take a break for an hour or so to cool off and the boss or area I was stuck on seems a lot easier. Just sharing my opinion on the game for anyone who cares and anyone who plays on 360 and enjoys the game should add me. I'm curious if you can summon your friends and I really need some people to play with.

 

[RandomHer0]

Wait, doesn't Yahtzee purposely neglect multi-player components when he reviews anyway?

Why is Dark Souls any different then? I played both Dark and Demons without the online component and still consider them top notch experiences. HYPOCRISY!

Ah well, maybe when hes bored in June or something he'll cave.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Wow, I'm playing Dark Souls for the 1st time (I never played Demon's Souls) and the game is not hard. I've made it through whole dungeons and bosses without dying once, and I'm not using a walkthrough either. You just have to take it slow, pull enemies to you one at a time, and understand how the games systems work (like how weapon scaling works, how magic works, etc.). You have to make sure you have a few combat options open to you like you should use a crossbow or bow and arrow (if you're a Dex-based character), have some magic (go with sorcery or miracles, not both), and pick a few weapons to level since leveling weapons is more important than leveling your character.

 

[cricket chirps]

I started running into that mind breaking problem there at the end in some multiplayer games i play. It made me realise "Yahtzee is right," and so i've converted to Croshaw-ism and began shunning every multiplayer aspect in a game. Then guess what happened? I ACTUALLY enjoyed playing games more who would have thought?

-In seriosness games are meant to be enjoyed and any game that even allows for a moment that would make you angry at it or others is not enjoyable. It's not fun to be mad, and a game that is not fun is not worth playing clarity is nice.

 

[VonBrewskie]

Got me right between the eyes. I do dull office work. Shit man. What the fuck am I doing with my life?

 

[Something Amyss]

I started running into that mind breaking problem there at the end in some multiplayer games i play. It made me realise "Yahtzee is right," and so i've converted to Croshaw-ism and began shunning every multiplayer aspect in a game. Then guess what happened? I ACTUALLY enjoyed playing games more who would have thought?

-In seriosness games are meant to be enjoyed and any game that even allows for a moment that would make you angry at it or others is not enjoyable. It's not fun to be mad, and a game that is not fun is not worth playing clarity is nice.

It always amazes me, because all my friends get horribly pissed off playing MW3 or (multiplayer shooter here, I'm not just picking on COD). They scream profanities, call bull, and by and large seem to utterly hate the experience. But they buy every new shooter and spend months fixed on each.

And I really don't get why they punish themselves so much.

 

[Luciella]

lol Yahtzee, you never went through the horror of the Tomb of Giants. That was way more scary than any Amnesia moments or Silent hill moments. I remember u said once something along the lines of that the kind of horror that makes you wonder what is ahead or behind IS the best -if not only- kind of horror.

It is indeed a shame you never went past the first boss, while by no means i can declare myself a pro gamer, i killed that boss in the second try. And by a shame i dont mean by your skills or tastes, no, i mean that if u kept playing you would start an odessy of awe, horror and even pity of the less fortunate than your already unfortunate character.

The crystal cave, the hydras, the secret beach, hell, the catacombs and tomb of giants all of them make you fully think you are inside there, making the best of your resources in order to stay alive and by al means to think fast of a strategy to come out victorious. But also to reveal the story, although simple, very inmersive.

I would by all means suggest to play the game past the gargoyles twin bosses, after those you would have got a hold of the game. But patience is required, even i that spent more than 120 hours in demon souls had a hard time in the way to the gargoyles.

 

[mrdude2010]

I like systems where you can save whenever you want, it's fun to save, then go through a nice, cathartic, wholesale slaughter spree, then drop back into my old save file and continue on with the quest or whatever I was doing. Or choosing conversations options I ordinarily wouldn't go for out of caution.

 

[Sylveria]

Heh that last paragraph reminds me of why I quit PVPing in WoW. I eventually reached this point where I stopped giving a shit. I was no longer mad when I died, or we lost, or I personally failed; I just totally stopped caring and went with it. But, then I realized I'm not having fun and I don't care about the result, why am I doing it at all? I quit a couple days later, never looking back.

 

[Nomanslander]

If you ever want to get any joy in playing these type of games, you got to learn how to enjoy the thrill of a challenge and not just being able to plough through a game. But I guess you're not the type of gamer that's in it for the challenge, you might even hate it, hence one reason why you might hate MPs. You're just in it for the experience.

Oh and if you can't even beat the second boss...../facepalm

0o

 

[Sylveria]

I started running into that mind breaking problem there at the end in some multiplayer games i play. It made me realise "Yahtzee is right," and so i've converted to Croshaw-ism and began shunning every multiplayer aspect in a game. Then guess what happened? I ACTUALLY enjoyed playing games more who would have thought?

-In seriosness games are meant to be enjoyed and any game that even allows for a moment that would make you angry at it or others is not enjoyable. It's not fun to be mad, and a game that is not fun is not worth playing clarity is nice.

It always amazes me, because all my friends get horribly pissed off playing MW3 or (multiplayer shooter here, I'm not just picking on COD). They scream profanities, call bull, and by and large seem to utterly hate the experience. But they buy every new shooter and spend months fixed on each.

And I really don't get why they punish themselves so much.

It's called Gamer Masochism. It's a psychological remnant from when you were a child and your video game library was small and generally consisted of awful or horribly difficult games. You had so few games, you had to beat them. You had nothing better to do like go outside or learn a language or faggy shit like that, no, you had to beat Battletoads, or Ninja Gaiden, or Blinx the Timecat, or whatever horrible game your misinformed parents got from a bin and gave you for Christmas.

It's the same reason that people play stuff like Dark Souls, Super Meatboy or IWBTG now when they're old enough to know better; there's that damaged part of their psyche that gets some level of satisfaction from their own self imposed suffering and humiliation. Scariest part? It's getting worse and it's the reason stuff like CoD and MW are doing so well; these young men (generally) like inflict pain and misery upon themselves and others which does not bode well for the poor women who view them affectionately.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

I have died a lot in dark souls, but not a great deal anymore. I'm onto new areas, I know to be careful, I'm quick to adapt to the enemies. I am not self-blowing myself here, there is a point. You cannot fight the game. You cannot get angry at losing in this game, it will drive you mad. You must learn from dark souls, grow a little, deal with the death, prepare to counter and live. Work out what type of combatant you want to play, and be ready to adapt for enemies and bosses, because they are all a bit different.

It isn't a game you try to fight, you already have enough fighting to do in game. It doesn't pamper you or let you succeed, but there are always options to get ahead.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

If you ever want to get any joy in playing these type of games, you got to learn how to enjoy the thrill of a challenge and not just being able to plow through a game. But I guess you're not the type of gamer that's in it for the challenge, you might even hate it, hence one reason why you might hate MPs. You're just in it for the experience.

Oh and if you can't even beat the second boss...../facepalm

0o

Exactly! Dark souls is a game with a lot that is hidden, if you rush and grab the zweihander early, level up some strength, you actually have a great weapon for a lot of the early parts of the game. Some early bosses become easy!