Debunking The Saints Row IV Whining

[D-Class 198482]

While I'm not pointing fingers at the Escapist-goers here, this thread is more about the folks on Youtube who spout the same invalid whines about why Saints Row IV is bad and everyone else should hate it too. Note that I know there are valid criticisms for the game and rest assured they shall NOT be showing up in the thread.
Anyways, let us begin.

1. It's a DLC that they sold as a full game
No -- it's common knowledge Saints Row IV was being made BEFORE Saints Row the Third (for some reason) and they liked the Enter the Dominatrix plotline and gameplay enough to renovate IV and give it the plotline and gameplay of Enter the Dominatrix.

2. It looks like a DLC
This complaint is actually different from the first one - the first one goes after how the roots of the game where apparently from a DLC, while this one is just them attacking it because they think it *looks* like it should've been a DLC.
Well, yes. It's going to have the same engine, graphics, and map because it was made alongside Saints Row the Third. Wah. Meanwhile, it's a 24 hour game (which isn't something DLCs /do/), has new enemies, buildings, powers, guns, customization options, gameplay, vehicles, storyline, characters, and minigames.
Which, if you'd recall, Saints Row 2 and Saints Row 3 had as well, thus categorizing Saints Row IV as a new game and not deserving of DLC status.

3. It's a Prototype rip-off
This is one of my least favourites - besides the whole 'rip-off' thing which would imply in Saints Row IV you play as a depressing guy with a hoodie that can chop people in half and basically fucks a city over by filling it with zombies, the only reason they say this is because you can glide and run up walls.
Besides the fact superpowers in games weren't made by Prototype, there is also the second complaint where they say the animations are ripped.
And thus, examination time.
In Prototype 1, Alex, when about to jump, leans over and raises his arms behind him. In Prototype 2, James crouches and puts his fist against the ground. When you jump in Saints Row IV, the best way I could describe it is 'tebowing'. Gliding in Prototype 1 and 2 involved James and Alex having their arms spread wide and somewhat slack, in Saints Row IV the Boss has his/her arms close to their torso and more bent back.

4. GTA V WILL SELL MORE!!!
This is an actual thing that you see all the time. People really judge this game because GTA V will sell more. Besides the fact that Saints Row is an obscure title when compared to Grand Theft Auto, do I really need to explain why this argument is stupid?

Anyways. That's all the arguments I can remember, if you have any more bad arguments you've plucked up tell me and I will attempt to adress them.

 

[Clowndoe]

Yeah, I have a sneaky feelings that to some people having the same UI and graphics for a game automatically disqualifies it from asking 50$. Funny thing is, it's actually a much bigger leap from SR3 to SR4 than from Doom to Doom II. I mean, that game was basically a mission pack, with one extra gun and a few new enemies. Bottom line, a game should cost as much as it's worth to the buyer. If I'm getting 50-60$ worth of enjoyment, then it's worth more than a DLC.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

thing is though, the first two complaints ARE valid...but then you have to remembers that Volition has been through a LOT of stuff since SRTT. Heck, it was completely viable that they wouldn't even still be around a few months ago due to THQ's collapse and luckily they got bought by Deep Silver's parent company. A few flaws are going to happen, such as the city being almost exactly the same and having ONE enemy "gang" instead of three. However, they'll probably do better with a Saints Row V due to being more secure.

 

[Ruzinus]

It's totally using ideas from Crackdown and Prototype.

That's not a whine, that's a hurray.

 

[Syzygy23]

thing is though, the first two complaints ARE valid...but then you have to remembers that Volition has been through a LOT of stuff since SRTT. Heck, it was completely viable that they wouldn't even still be around a few months ago due to THQ's collapse and luckily they got bought by Deep Silver's parent company. A few flaws are going to happen, such as the city being almost exactly the same and having ONE enemy "gang" instead of three. However, they'll probably do better with a Saints Row V due to being more secure.

I thought volition said that SR4 is the final chapter in the Saints Row games?

 

[Saviordd1]

thing is though, the first two complaints ARE valid...but then you have to remembers that Volition has been through a LOT of stuff since SRTT. Heck, it was completely viable that they wouldn't even still be around a few months ago due to THQ's collapse and luckily they got bought by Deep Silver's parent company. A few flaws are going to happen, such as the city being almost exactly the same and having ONE enemy "gang" instead of three. However, they'll probably do better with a Saints Row V due to being more secure.

Having played the game, no, they are not valid.

Once you play the game you realize the pure amount of shit they've stuffed into the game makes those complaints not valid.

 

[Evil Smurf]

Yeah, I'm pumped. Ignore those who would troll you OP. I'm going to download the game tonight.

I may be using a VPN ;D Go Australia!

 

[PBMcNair]

Sources please. On everything. You can't "debunk" things based on nothing but opinion and "common knowledge".

 

[SecondPrize]

I'm pretty sure there are news reports with quotes from the devs explicitly stating that the dlc expansion was being turned into the game that just released. That is not to say that it doesn't have enough content to stand on it's own, but that is where it came from.

 

[Zhukov]

The first thing I thought when I saw the super-speed, jumping, building-running-up-side-of and gliding was, "Huh, that basically just looks like Prototype but trying way to hard to be "wacky" instead of angsty."

 

[sweetylnumb]

They do realize that the reason it looks a bit like prototype is because the people who MADE prototype were part of the development?

Also: it looks freaking great

 

[Doom972]

Only 24 hours long? For a stand-alone sandbox game that's pretty short. I guess I'll get it when it becomes really cheap if that's the case. Maybe they should've released it as DLC.

Yeah, I have a sneaky feelings that to some people having the same UI and graphics for a game automatically disqualifies it from asking 50$. Funny thing is, it's actually a much bigger leap from SR3 to SR4 than from Doom to Doom II. I mean, that game was basically a mission pack, with one extra gun and a few new enemies. Bottom line, a game should cost as much as it's worth to the buyer. If I'm getting 50-60$ worth of enjoyment, then it's worth more than a DLC.

You are comparing it to Doom? Standards were very different back then. I'm sure you know that DLC wasn't an option back then, and I'm not really sure if expansion packs already existed. If they did, they weren't very popular.

Also, back then sequels were expected to be similar to their predecessors, because back then, whenever developers wanted to make something different, they'd usually just make a completely new game instead of a sequel.

 

[Kyber]

SR3 was a huge meh for me, and I have a strong feeling this will be too.

 

[Jandau]

One criticism that I've seen leveled at the game thus far that deserves noting is that it's so far removed from its origins (over-the-top gangster game; GTA's wacky cousin) that it might as well not be called Saint's Row anymore. Personally, I enjoyed SR3 precisely because it was starting to move away from it's gangster roots into something more interesting (I can't play GTA games for more than 30 minutes because I don't really dig the whole theme). So naturally, I'm totally cool with SR4 going further, but I can understand the fans of the first two games thinking this is just too far and that it's hardly a SR game at this point.

Another thing, which I've seen noted in early reviews/previews is that the game is fairly rough around the edges and that a lot of the mechanics just seem like they've been randomly thrown together. This ties into the whole "Feels like DLC" point from the OP - it's the same map. Same city. In the same engine. They just changed the lighting effects. It feels like they just took SR3 and tossed a bunch of stuff in instead of making a new game. I'll reserve my judgement on this until I play the game, but some of what I've seen confirms that (the whole "calling in followers" feels like a leftover from SR3 that they didn't bother changing in any way to accommodate the new mechanics).

 

[piinyouri]

I would appreciate the option to turn the cheat rewards off. That was one big sticking point about 3 for me personally.

Also really enjoyed the level of customization in 2. Its strange, there's a lot of things to customize on paper in SR3, but in the end it doesn't feel like there's that much.

I'm sure I'll be giving this a once through since my boyfriend is super intent on buying it. Super Badass Transgender Superhero II.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

While I will agree that the game does look like canned SRTT DLC, that makes it FAR from a bad game.
Personally, I might get both this and GTA V.

 

[Vale]

It's basically Saints Row 3 with superpowers. Which is a much bigger leap than the one between SR 1 and 2 and 3, where the only addition was a dumbing down of customization (remember when you had layers of clothes? ye, me too) an admittedly cool sprint attack, removal of the props you could use for combat, better animations and graphics and a plot that was all over the fucking place in SR 3. Especially compared to the 2nd game.
This one just works better than 3, so it's got my vote of happy.

 

[Legion]

1. It's a DLC that they sold as a full game
No -- it's common knowledge Saints Row IV was being made BEFORE Saints Row the Third (for some reason) and they liked the Enter the Dominatrix plotline and gameplay enough to renovate IV and give it the plotline and gameplay of Enter the Dominatrix.

2. It looks like a DLC
This complaint is actually different from the first one - the first one goes after how the roots of the game where apparently from a DLC, while this one is just them attacking it because they think it *looks* like it should've been a DLC.
Well, yes. It's going to have the same engine, graphics, and map because it was made alongside Saints Row the Third. Wah. Meanwhile, it's a 24 hour game (which isn't something DLCs /do/), has new enemies, buildings, powers, guns, customization options, gameplay, vehicles, storyline, characters, and minigames.
Which, if you'd recall, Saints Row 2 and Saints Row 3 had as well, thus categorizing Saints Row IV as a new game and not deserving of DLC status.

This reminds me of back before Fallout New Vegas was released. People kept saying that it was just a DLC or should have been one because it used the exact same engine and so on. Considering how much there is to do in the game, as well as the fact that a significant amount of people consider it to surpass Fallout 3 in almost every way, it is kind of amusing to recall the scepticism people had back then.

That said:

This ties into the whole "Feels like DLC" point from the OP - it's the same map. Same city. In the same engine. They just changed the lighting effects. It feels like they just took SR3 and tossed a bunch of stuff in instead of making a new game.

If this is the case then I'd expect a lot of new content to be pleased about this if I were interested in the game. I can only speak from personal experience but I find not knowing my way around and exploring to be half of the fun with sandbox style games. Once I know where everything is without even thinking about it, I find the game considerably less enjoyable. Having an entirely new game set in the exact same city,, with the exact same map would put me off in most cases.