Defining Misogynism

[peruvianskys]

I believe a meaningful definition of misogyny would be this guy.

And while I don't agree that videogames should be a boys club or a male space, after going through high school during a time where you pretty much had to hide that you played videogames because most girls would put you on their blacklist for it, yeah I guess now it seems a little bit insulting that they come in making demands and expecting game devs to cater to them.

Have you ever considered that perhaps they were prone to "blacklisting you" because women who showed interest in video games at the time would be equally discriminated against? It seems as though you are struggling greatly to see things from any perspective other than your own.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

Come on now everyone, lets not be so critical, this guy looks pretty legit:

I say we appoint him as our messiah, and all join together in this new... lets call it a 'brotherhood', in order to usher in the glorious tiberium age and crush all who oppose us.

What do you say? Can I get a Nod of agreement?

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

You made a "Gaming shouldn't be a boy's club, but..." post, and just as with people who preface incredibly racist statements by saying "I'm not a racist, but...", you actually ended up making a load of arguments about why gaming should be a boy's club. And one of those reasons was that girls apparently refused to sleep with you because you played video games.

It's more like the equivalent of saying "I'm not racist but I think the Rodney King riots set progressivism back if anything." It's more about the social implications of it than my personal feelings.

Also since you keep going "LOL U COULDNT GET LAID IN HIGH SCHOOL," it's more that I had to hide my ps2 whenever I had girls over.

 

[lacktheknack]

Instead of that, I recommend this 40-second video to get the basic gist: http://vimeo.com/64941331

That video really creeped me out. That was kind of brilliantly done.

OT: A misogynist is anyone, man or woman, who is in a state of believing women to be inferior to men.

Misogyny is an attribute of any action, artistic expression, etc, that conforms to the mentality that women are inferior to men.

It's possible to perform misogynistic actions without being a misogynist.

For example, if you are trying to hire one person, and you receive an application from a man and a woman, then by hiring one, you are doomed to perform a misogynist or misandric action. Even if you select the male candidate because he has more experience and schooling, your selecting him was a misogynistic action, because it fits the mindset that women are worth less than men.

We have to stop being so afraid of the technicalities and definitions. Your perception of people should come from noticing trends in their actions, not just from any one action.

For instance, we see in the Vimeo video that the male in the frame is getting lots of ice cream and not letting the woman have any. This is misogynistic, but not indicative that he is a misogynist (he may just be very self centered). However, after she gets some ice cream, we see him crying, throwing a fit, and saying "feminazis stole my ice cream". These multiple instances are what paint the character as a misogynist.

(I think I lost my point in there somewhere...)

 

[Ikasury]

Misogyny: Hatred of Women, pure and simple...

what this guy is 'hating' isn't 'women', he's hating 'chicks', this breed of 'women' that is 'modern', whoreish, entitled, self-affirming, and using old school stereotypes to their 'advantage' while completely ignoring all the 'disadvantages' because for some god-awful reason they are allowed to and other women like me can't... i hate these bitches too -.-

do i like his 'approach', hell no, mostly because he's clumping us all into the same pot where there is a CLEAR difference from what 'I' am and what these 'chicks' are, its mostly due to self-respect, nature, and various other cultural things, i quite honestly would never dream of acting like these 'women', but due to 'culture' people have expected it of me just because i have tits... how they were raised and how i was raise is apparently EXTREMELY different, yet me, as not a 'chick' get the brunt backlash of this bullshit... not just you supposed 'alpha males', whom quite honestly, you shouldn't be complaining if one of these 'chicks' turns you down, as my one friend used to say 'bitches ain't worth it', and really these 'women' aren't worth it...

to oppose the obvious 'male superiority' of this vid, i could quite honestly say 'tough shit, same bullshit is happening to us too' really... like i said, there's a difference between what i am and these 'chicks' yet 'men' expect the same from me as them, or they 'assume' i'll act the same, so in the end 'I' have to change my own actions to either appeal to them or blow them off entirely because they are just as much of assholes... its because of these double-standards, and these self-entitled people, on both sides of the gender fence, that us 'normal' people get so god-awful confused about just what the hell we are, since everyone else expects something 'different' and no matter how 'we' act we're the ones that are 'wrong'...

i don't disagree with this guy, i'm a eugenicist, i want the human race to go forth and be all it can be and believe one way of doing that is good breeding... sadly its also guys like this who think they have so much 'game' that are just as bad as their hated rivals the 'chicks' that turn them down its really all just pitiful and speaks of nothing good for the future... personally i feel the 'tone' could be different, and less 'man on top, i am king' and more just speaking as a human being, as a woman who's had deal with all this gender bullshit my whole life it gets bloody old, especially when i, who was raised in a matriarch household, have to bend over backwards and work five times harder then some hussy cause i DON'T want to show off my tits only for some DUDE to complain he's not getting 'game' is bullshit... let them be whores, let them f*ck up, why not you so-called 'alpha-males' put your d*cks back in your pants and be 'nice' to the actually hard working women and stop treating us like these bitches, maybe then we'd stop responding to you the same way they do? seems to work for them~

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

It's more like the equivalent of saying "I'm not racist but I think the Rodney King riots set progressivism back if anything." It's more about the social implications of it than my personal feelings.

Also since you keep going "LOL U COULDNT GET LAID IN HIGH SCHOOL," it's more that I had to hide my ps2 whenever I had girls over.

Care to explain why? Come on, you didn't "have to" do anything, you chose to.

Also, do you care to explain why female gamers in the 21st century deserve to be punished for what non-gamer girls that you went to high school with apparently did?

How are they being punished by games that aren't for them existing? All joking aside, I am not "punished" by Twilight not appealing to me. There's a market for it and I'm not it. That doesn't mean movies aren't for me, it means Twilight isn't for me, and Twilight has every right to exist even though I wouldn't like watching it. Twilight is to movies as dead or alive or dragon's crown is to videogames.

The thing about high school was less about my personal experience and more about the general attitude towards videogames predating the mid-late 2000s. It created the environment that allowed dead or alive to get all the way to 8 or whatever it's at. Which is fine. My point is that everything doesn't have to be for everyone. If you're not there, nobody is going to make things for you. So when you show up late and then get angry when people make things that aren't for you it's like "well yeah, you weren't here so we made something that wasn't for you and people liked it so we're making more."

You're mistaking me saying "this is why things are that way" for me saying I think things should be a certain way. It's nice when everyone can enjoy a game. I played through both borderlands, portal 2, and saints row with my girlfriend. I just think there's a place for games for guys, or girls, or kids, or adults too. I think its great that girls aren't weirded out by videogames anymore and I would like to see more games that everyone can enjoy. I also like all the blood and titties in god of war and the attitude that it has to be one or the other bothers me.

Feel free to take any of that out of context and put words in my mouth. I'm done.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Misogyny is hatred of women, male chauvinism is the perspective that men are inherently better than women. Better at what? I have no idea. I subscribe to neither. On average, men and women are distinct, each with their own advantages, and hatred is giving them far more attention than they're worth. To really hate someone requires a personal connection with them and a whole lot of work; hating entire groups is the sloppy product of paranoia and stupidity. Nebulous or otherwise, hatred also betrays a certain, twisted idol worship, something else I can't quite wrap my mind around. I'm the center of the observable universe, not women.

I'm often mistaken for a misogynist but it's a misunderstanding. I honestly don't treat or think of women that much differently than men(despite having different uses for them) but it often appears that I do because I don't deign to offer them special consideration. When I'm uncivil to them I'm not doing anything I wouldn't do to men, but it's somehow taken that way. And while I realize I'm statistically likely to be more privileged and they disadvantaged, I refuse to take responsibility for that to the extent that it influences my behavior. If I want to be uncivil to someone at the micro level then I'm simply not going to let my statistically insignificant contribution to a "problem" on a macro level determine my actions. It's ridiculous to demand that of me, and besides it's not in the name of equality, either.

Frankly, I'm not sure how much of a problem any of this really is. It's not hard to imagine the potential benefit of living in a society dominated by white males as a white male, and I can't begin to imagine how so many of my brethren take pleasure in relinquishing the power they wield. I have heard that there are a great deal of benefits in living in societies with greater equality although I have no idea what they are or if those are coincidental. I imagine most of them probably would be, and even if not, I'm not sure I'd be willing to trade them for control over another human being. A harem would probably be worth living a shorter life without reality television, after all.

 

[DoPo]

For example, if you are trying to hire one person, and you receive an application from a man and a woman, then by hiring one, you are doomed to perform a misogynist or misandric action.

...no, no you really aren't. That example is bad and you should feel bad. Only an absolute fanatic can claim that choosing one candidate over another means you hate the other's gender. OK, unless you actually do but let's assume you are a fair person and a decent human being. If you can point and say "Candidate A has 5 years professional experience in our line of work, while candidate B doesn't" or similar, how is that dictated by hate? You are literally applying the same measure to both - at the end of the day every rational person would agree that if you're looking for an experienced...I dunno, origami folder, you aren't discriminating based on gender, nationality, age, or whatever by not taking on inexperienced ones.

 

[lacktheknack]

For example, if you are trying to hire one person, and you receive an application from a man and a woman, then by hiring one, you are doomed to perform a misogynist or misandric action.

...no, no you really aren't. That example is bad and you should feel bad. Only an absolute fanatic can claim that choosing one candidate over another means you hate the other's gender. OK, unless you actually do but let's assume you are a fair person and a decent human being. If you can point and say "Candidate A has 5 years professional experience in our line of work, while candidate B doesn't" or similar, how is that dictated by hate? You are literally applying the same measure to both - at the end of the day every rational person would agree that if you're looking for an experienced...I dunno, origami folder, you aren't discriminating based on gender, nationality, age, or whatever by not taking on inexperienced ones.

You'll notice that if you quoted my whole post, then your reply doesn't work, because I defined misogyny differently than you did.

I didn't say that misogyny = hate, I said that misogyny = conforms to the view that women are worth less than men.

If you disagree with that, then let's talk about that, but we have to start on the same basis to have a discussion. Make sure you read my whole post, though, as it's a bit different than the norm.

(Not that I'll be active in it, I have to go to bed in a few minutes...)

 

[DementedSheep]

For example, if you are trying to hire one person, and you receive an application from a man and a woman, then by hiring one, you are doomed to perform a misogynist or misandric action.

...no, no you really aren't. That example is bad and you should feel bad. Only an absolute fanatic can claim that choosing one candidate over another means you hate the other's gender. OK, unless you actually do but let's assume you are a fair person and a decent human being. If you can point and say "Candidate A has 5 years professional experience in our line of work, while candidate B doesn't" or similar, how is that dictated by hate? You are literally applying the same measure to both - at the end of the day every rational person would agree that if you're looking for an experienced...I dunno, origami folder, you aren't discriminating based on gender, nationality, age, or whatever by not taking on inexperienced ones.

You'll notice that if you quoted my whole post, then your reply doesn't work, because I defined misogyny differently than you did.

I didn't say that misogyny = hate, I said that misogyny = conforms to the view that women are worth less than men.

If you disagree with that, then let's talk about that, but we have to start on the same basis to have a discussion. Make sure you read my whole post, though, as it's a bit different than the norm.

(Not that I'll be active in it, I have to go to bed in a few minutes...)

But its not the belief that "woman are worth less than men" or vice versa because there is not judgment over an entire gender being made. Its the belief that candidate A is more appropriate for this particular job than candidate B.

 

[lacktheknack]

For example, if you are trying to hire one person, and you receive an application from a man and a woman, then by hiring one, you are doomed to perform a misogynist or misandric action.

...no, no you really aren't. That example is bad and you should feel bad. Only an absolute fanatic can claim that choosing one candidate over another means you hate the other's gender. OK, unless you actually do but let's assume you are a fair person and a decent human being. If you can point and say "Candidate A has 5 years professional experience in our line of work, while candidate B doesn't" or similar, how is that dictated by hate? You are literally applying the same measure to both - at the end of the day every rational person would agree that if you're looking for an experienced...I dunno, origami folder, you aren't discriminating based on gender, nationality, age, or whatever by not taking on inexperienced ones.

You'll notice that if you quoted my whole post, then your reply doesn't work, because I defined misogyny differently than you did.

I didn't say that misogyny = hate, I said that misogyny = conforms to the view that women are worth less than men.

If you disagree with that, then let's talk about that, but we have to start on the same basis to have a discussion. Make sure you read my whole post, though, as it's a bit different than the norm.

(Not that I'll be active in it, I have to go to bed in a few minutes...)

But its not the belief that "woman are worth less than men" or vice versa because there is not judgment over an entire gender being made. Its the belief that candidate A is more appropriate for this particular job than candidate B.

I think you missed the point of my first post.

It DOES "conform to a viewpoint". I assume you think my definition is too broad? How would you rather define it?

Think carefully, because there are issues with limiting the definition to "hates women".

 

[DoPo]

For example, if you are trying to hire one person, and you receive an application from a man and a woman, then by hiring one, you are doomed to perform a misogynist or misandric action.

...no, no you really aren't. That example is bad and you should feel bad. Only an absolute fanatic can claim that choosing one candidate over another means you hate the other's gender. OK, unless you actually do but let's assume you are a fair person and a decent human being. If you can point and say "Candidate A has 5 years professional experience in our line of work, while candidate B doesn't" or similar, how is that dictated by hate? You are literally applying the same measure to both - at the end of the day every rational person would agree that if you're looking for an experienced...I dunno, origami folder, you aren't discriminating based on gender, nationality, age, or whatever by not taking on inexperienced ones.

You'll notice that if you quoted my whole post, then your reply doesn't work, because I defined misogyny differently than you did.

I didn't say that misogyny = hate, I said that misogyny = conforms to the view that women are worth less than men.

If you disagree with that, then let's talk about that, but we have to start on the same basis to have a discussion. Make sure you read my whole post, though, as it's a bit different than the norm.

(Not that I'll be active in it, I have to go to bed in a few minutes...)

Well, it matters not, if candidate A has 5 years professional origami folding experience, how does that suggest that every person from candidate B's entire gender is less capable, overall? You're still judging two people on their own merits rather than some larger classification they belong to. Any judgement made is solely for them as a person. You can no more claim that choosing one over the other is motivated by what their gender is than who has the shorter toenails. If candidate A has infrared eye colour while B's eye colour is ultraviolet, does your judgement mean ultraviolet eyes are inferior? If one collects stamps, the other coins, does that mean one hobby inferior is to the other by choosing one candidate?

No. You are, as I said, literally applying the same measure to two people. One that is not dictated by gender, hobby or whatever. Choosing one or the other does not mean anything on a larger scale, anyone who claims otherwise would be saying stupid things.

 

[Lieju]

This is why I find feminism to be as of now a stupid ignorant cause. The markets can be described as three groups. Female dominated, Male dominated, and gender neutral. 50% of gamers are female, does not mean that games will share equal representation. There isn't any sinister force at work, just games are being marketed to different groups, and in this case most of the blockbuster games are male markets.

Of course there isn't any sinister cabal of evil mustache-twirling men going 'WE MUST KEEP THE WOMENFOLK DOWN!' That's not really how the world works.
It's just that the market is hesitant to change, and cultural factors do not change overnight.

Women choosing to buy games that they like or marketed to them is what is happening, just it is not how you would like to see or vision how it would be.

And who is to say that 'hardcore' games just naturally repel women?

Even if we are going to assume (for the sake of an argument) that women just are drawn to different kinds of things in games, something like an open-world sandbox has nothing inherently masculine about it.
So, where are all the games like that that are marketed mainly for women?
Or even something like first person shooters? Platformers?

The fact that this comes up alot and that it seems like no one bother to look, or research this shit is bothersome.

I'm not even sure what you are arguing.

That having a vagina makes you inherently a 'casual' gamer?

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Come on now everyone, lets not be so critical, this guy looks pretty legit:

I say we appoint him as our messiah, and all join together in this new... lets call it a 'brotherhood', in order to usher in the glorious tiberium age and crush all who oppose us.

What do you say? Can I get a Nod of agreement?

Nevaaar, I shall form a cult around Christoph Waltz and appoint him the unviversal leader of the universe and we shall take Nicolas Cage as our champion.


[sub]so, ok, maybe a german wanting to appoint an austrian as his leader might not have the best of precedences...[/sub]

Are only male gamers allowed to feel entitled now? Is that part of the whole "No girls allowed" rulebook that apparently got handed out when I wasn't looking?

Now, because of the incredibly disturbing "Cage-cat" imagery, I shall have to prepare a snarky response.


*Snark on*
"Oh, so you didn't get the "no girls allowed-rulebook? Well aren't you a girl? Now, this might come as a shock to you, but let me mansplain things for your hormone-fueled girl-brain that is constantly plotting new and devious ways to take videogames away from us hard-working, honest, virtuous, intelligent and of course ruggedly handsome men, using my much superior rational male brain.
If we gave our tactics for keeping girls out of videogames to "the wymenz", wouldn't that defeat the entire purpose of creating a plan to keep girls out in the first place?"
*snark off*

BTW: Glad to see you're back, keep it clean etc and don't get yourself banned now.

 

[Bertylicious]

Ha, that video's ridiculous! Everyone knows that women aren't real.