Demigod Piracy Running High
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
That's pretty much it,
Basically what happened was Stardock entered an Arena that interested pirates more than their "Sins Of A Solar Empire" game did (which I purchused legitimatly, even if I haven't played it recently. I believe I did so under the username "Therumancer" as well, it's been a while so to Stardock).
It also seems like it's a server issue more than a game issue, I mean most pirated games I've heard about won't work with Multiplayer because of 1 time registration codes or whatever.
At any rate, all DRM does is going to do is encourage things more. Understand that people pirate for all kinds of reasons, and the DRM arguements do not nessicarly apply to EVERYONE who is pirating. There is no way to track who say only pirates games to avoid crippleware or whatever.
Speaking soley for myself, the biggest temptation to get me to pirate would be a copy of say Space Rangers 2 (or Reboot) without that starguard/protection thing on it. I've got a copy of the original SR 2 right next to my computer right now that I feel I got ripped off on because I will NOT install that crap on my computer.
Another one is Sacred 2, I'm waiting for a 360 version despite preferring to play on a PC (meaning I'm going to be POed anyway) because of the fact that it limits the number of installs you can do and other things. It's also allegedly chock full of what amounts to spyware/tracking. Ironic because it strikes me that if they spent half that effort into fixing the game glitches it might have gone over better. Also they wouldn't have upset me by making me wait bloody months before getting a console version. With that game I'm pretty much cheering "Gogo pirates" as well.
>>>----Therumancer--->
Basically what happened was Stardock entered an Arena that interested pirates more than their "Sins Of A Solar Empire" game did (which I purchused legitimatly, even if I haven't played it recently. I believe I did so under the username "Therumancer" as well, it's been a while so to Stardock).
It also seems like it's a server issue more than a game issue, I mean most pirated games I've heard about won't work with Multiplayer because of 1 time registration codes or whatever.
At any rate, all DRM does is going to do is encourage things more. Understand that people pirate for all kinds of reasons, and the DRM arguements do not nessicarly apply to EVERYONE who is pirating. There is no way to track who say only pirates games to avoid crippleware or whatever.
Speaking soley for myself, the biggest temptation to get me to pirate would be a copy of say Space Rangers 2 (or Reboot) without that starguard/protection thing on it. I've got a copy of the original SR 2 right next to my computer right now that I feel I got ripped off on because I will NOT install that crap on my computer.
Another one is Sacred 2, I'm waiting for a 360 version despite preferring to play on a PC (meaning I'm going to be POed anyway) because of the fact that it limits the number of installs you can do and other things. It's also allegedly chock full of what amounts to spyware/tracking. Ironic because it strikes me that if they spent half that effort into fixing the game glitches it might have gone over better. Also they wouldn't have upset me by making me wait bloody months before getting a console version. With that game I'm pretty much cheering "Gogo pirates" as well.
>>>----Therumancer--->
I got to say that was quite a nice read. It makes sense from a purely business stand point, but at the same time it's so very true. It drives me up the wall that PC game makers are backing themselves into a corner relying on the most powerful of tech to sell their product when you have a chance that this costly development plan of pushing for the most powerful machines don't always breed the most fun games. Hell Sins was a great game. Granted I spent a half hour looking for the campaign, but other then that I was amazed that my cruddy computer at the time ran the game rather well actually.unangbangkay said:
I was aware of Stardock's philosophy in the past, but it's good that even though this situation happened the likelihood that this would negatively impact Stardock seems slim. DRM needs to die and I do believe Stardock is one of those studios that really is our only hope. I kinda wish other companies would take a scaling back on their PC games so it can be a more viable gaming platform like it was in the past. Oh well that's my small rant on this whole subject. Thanks for the link and all that fun stuff.
I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the pirates are Brazillian/South American or Chinese. There are plenty of North American pirates, mind you, but in my experience it seems like those countries (and poorer countries in general) have a much easier time justifying their piracy.
Why would they find an excuse to screw over the customers? That doesn't make sense.Ragdrazi said:
As much as I may not like some developers and publishers, I'm not sure they'd do something like DRM if there was no rationale for it.
And I'll certainly think you're selfish if you're pirating games because you can't afford them, or because you don't like the publisher, or because you don't think it's worth what they're charging. Absolutely.
Piracy isn't some profound protest of some evil corporation.
It's the selfish, illegal acquisition of a product or data.
And it's also the perfect excuse for companies to screw over real, legitimate customers with intrusive or annoying measures to make sure that they get the money they are owed for their work.
I don't get mad at the company, that's their right.
I get mad at the pricks who give the companies the excuse.
Especially those who hammer a good, trusting, understanding company like Stardock.
No excuse.
http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/303512/Piracy_PC_GamingBaby Tea said:
I highly recommend people read this from the person that is being pirated so badly that this article is about them. He basically says that the big developers (Going to say EA because it's short and I'm lazy, plus they have some pretty bad DRM) market to everyone pirates included. While his whole approach is marketing to regular consumers. A pirate gets no votes in what they desire in the content and Sins (a small relatively unknown game compared to others) outsold some of the more well named titles. Why would that be? If the epic piracy is so bad that we need DRM then why is this little no budget title (1 million isn't really a whole lot now a days) selling more then those big boys? Of course it got pirated, but then again Stardock expected it to be pirated and they tailored their sales figures accordingly. You didn't hear them complain, you didn't see them put DRM all over their next title. DRM is a wholly unnecessary piece of software that has messed up more computers then anyone would like to think. Plus the idea you have to authenticate to a server in order to play your game. Which basically means that no EA no gaming unless you want to turn to the very pirates that you hate so much. It's kind of ironic that the people the DRM is for can find a way around it. No piece of protection is perfect and it is always a futile arms race in the end. If EA marketed the game to a more mainstream PC audiance then they would probably see better results in terms of sales. Not everyone can run Crysis and that is what is killing PC gaming. It's getting too powerful for it's own good. Well like I said read the article. It's a good read and brings to light the points I am hamfisted attempting to make.
Nothing excuses DRM that trashes computers. A hacker can always find a way through any security measure it only takes time. That goes true with networks and it goes true with games.
But you have to admit, they did kind off ask for it, no DRM, no problem, for pirates that is. I don't mind little DRM but having none is just stupid.scarbunny said:
There's no demo for one. And two, how many units were sold? If you want a good read on piracy, though LONG, it's here:
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/pc_game_piracy/
"...But the gist here is that immediately after bitching about a user pirating the game, citing righteous indignation at this piracy being a lost sale, Tom replies "If you don't ''like not being able to play a demo, here's an idea, Richard: don't buy the game!"
In other words, if you pirated the game to try it out because there wasn't a demo, it cost developers money due to a potentially lost sale. But if you decide to not buy it because you can't try it out, the developers are too stupid to care, so that potentially lost sale is immaterial. The ultimate question here - which the PC game industry avoids like the plague - is "Look, do you want me to buy your game or what?". The usual response is to inform the consumer that games are non-essential, and then subsequently complain about the dwindling sales in the PC game market when people who already know that games are non-essential decide to stop buying them because of all this bullshit. For all the hot air about piracy, people in the industry are remarkably prone to telling people to fuck off if they don't like it, as though the industry doesn't mind losing a customer anywhere near as much as they mind not being able to force people to give them money.
This is a large part of why the discussion on the matter is fruitless. Instead of actually looking at what the consumer wants (a demo) and going "Maybe we should've worked harder at giving players a way to evaluate the game we want them to drop $50 on", the response is "If you don't want to buy a game at full price sight unseen, then tough shit!" as if the consumers are suddenly the ones damaged the most by that lost sale. Way to score one for the health of the industry..."
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/pc_game_piracy/
"...But the gist here is that immediately after bitching about a user pirating the game, citing righteous indignation at this piracy being a lost sale, Tom replies "If you don't ''like not being able to play a demo, here's an idea, Richard: don't buy the game!"
In other words, if you pirated the game to try it out because there wasn't a demo, it cost developers money due to a potentially lost sale. But if you decide to not buy it because you can't try it out, the developers are too stupid to care, so that potentially lost sale is immaterial. The ultimate question here - which the PC game industry avoids like the plague - is "Look, do you want me to buy your game or what?". The usual response is to inform the consumer that games are non-essential, and then subsequently complain about the dwindling sales in the PC game market when people who already know that games are non-essential decide to stop buying them because of all this bullshit. For all the hot air about piracy, people in the industry are remarkably prone to telling people to fuck off if they don't like it, as though the industry doesn't mind losing a customer anywhere near as much as they mind not being able to force people to give them money.
This is a large part of why the discussion on the matter is fruitless. Instead of actually looking at what the consumer wants (a demo) and going "Maybe we should've worked harder at giving players a way to evaluate the game we want them to drop $50 on", the response is "If you don't want to buy a game at full price sight unseen, then tough shit!" as if the consumers are suddenly the ones damaged the most by that lost sale. Way to score one for the health of the industry..."
As I prospective Software Developer/Engineer, I currently have no plans to make PC and more specifically Windows software. The best way to stop piracy so far is having a Vice like grip on the system. Shown by Apple, Sony and Nintendo. Imagine if we had Linux as the gaming platform? A more verbose and open system. Yes Im quite aware that pirates exist and wont go away with DRM. I also dont deny I pirated software before I became a programmer. But most people will pirate because of skewed ethics and loopholes. This has never changed since the Apple 2e era.
I also dont like how people think us Devs dont understand. We have other responsibilities. We dont have mountains of cash. The only people that have mountains of money are the senior project managers and the distributors. By all means pirate somebody's software, knowing really you just lose respect from software devs. You people(pirates) made the games industry what it is now, its too late to protest. Prospective devs are more interested developing either in a GNU/GPL liberations sense, or in a closed system such as Apple or Consoles. Anyway, dont you think having no sales from a bad game sends a bigger message than no sales from pirates. If you really want to send a Message, Either buy it or dont. No Pirating.
You sir are a dime a dozen.Baby Tea said:
I also dont like how people think us Devs dont understand. We have other responsibilities. We dont have mountains of cash. The only people that have mountains of money are the senior project managers and the distributors. By all means pirate somebody's software, knowing really you just lose respect from software devs. You people(pirates) made the games industry what it is now, its too late to protest. Prospective devs are more interested developing either in a GNU/GPL liberations sense, or in a closed system such as Apple or Consoles. Anyway, dont you think having no sales from a bad game sends a bigger message than no sales from pirates. If you really want to send a Message, Either buy it or dont. No Pirating.
What a sad argument.Ragdrazi said:
A Library is licensed to lend out books. They actually pay for the books, and are legally allowed to lend them out for small periods of time. They are the same as a video store, except the store is a private business trying to make money so they charge you. A library is the same but it's a public service, payed usually by the local municipality.
NOT the same. Poor argument.
Well I didn't say you didn't or can't protest for it. I'm just saying it's selfish greed under the guise of a protest. The only pirates who claim it's a protest are the self-righteous ones who think they have some moral duty to stand up to the 'big bad corporations', but really they just want their stuff for free. The only one you're fooling is yourself.
I am examining piracy rationally. DRM is a result of piracy, not the other way around. You seem to have this romanticized idea of being some digital freedom fighter, when it's your actions, and actions of those like you, that are causing any sort of 'digital oppression'.
You're the cause of any worse anti-piracy measures.
If people were to stop being so selfish, and were to stop piracy all together, then any company that continued the anti-piracy measures wouldn't have a leg to stand on in defense of it.
But every time a game like this comes out where it's pirated at a rate of 5 to 1, you just give more statistics and more reasons for companies like EA to put on more and more intrusive DRM and anti-piracy measures.
Whose to blame?
You. You and anyone else who pirates for whatever reason. The more it happens, the worse it's going to get. Do you think the companies give a shit whether you're doing for some misguided protest, or because you're some snot-nosed little 15 year old wanted a game for free because his allowance didn't cover it? No. All they see is one more illegal copy of their work.
I need to look at piracy rationally?
You need to step off that pedestal you've put yourself on.
You aren't Robin Hood.
You're a punk with an internet connection.
Grow up.