Deus Ex - Boss Fights
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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In a very brief defense of the boss fights, I would say that my hero did not have invisibility (had but not used), recoil reduction, improved aim while moving, or body armour for the first 3 bosses (well, I had body armour for the 3rd, but I also lost no health during the fight), and I fully expect to walk over any remaining ones as well. Characters who have no points invested in any combat talent can trivialize these fights with a stun gun, an EMP grenade, and whatever lethal damaging weapon they happen to be carrying at the time, or loot from the room (thus far, all have provided lethal stuff in case you somehow have no gun). So I wouldn't say that not investing in combat is a "wrong" way to play, since the talents are unnecessary for the mandatory combat components.
I otherwise totally agree. My character was very stealthy, approached nothing brashly or quickly, and killed very few people until after the apartment event (all those belonging to the group or groups involved now receive a silenced bullet to the head after a non-lethal take-down). In the cut scenes he took a completely different approach, one that was nothing like how I had been playing him the rest of the game; the cut scenes for bosses/antagonizing NPCs are always jarring.
I would also like to point out that while I prefer to play stealth, on the occasions where I do kill an enemy it is obvious that the game is heavily biased towards non-lethal/stealth play for all sequences that aren't boss fights, what with getting 20XP for a kill compared to 50 for a non-lethal melee knockout, plus the Ghost and some other bonus. The boss fights seem almost like an apology to the players who "foolishly" decided they wanted to play aggressively.
I otherwise totally agree. My character was very stealthy, approached nothing brashly or quickly, and killed very few people until after the apartment event (all those belonging to the group or groups involved now receive a silenced bullet to the head after a non-lethal take-down). In the cut scenes he took a completely different approach, one that was nothing like how I had been playing him the rest of the game; the cut scenes for bosses/antagonizing NPCs are always jarring.
I would also like to point out that while I prefer to play stealth, on the occasions where I do kill an enemy it is obvious that the game is heavily biased towards non-lethal/stealth play for all sequences that aren't boss fights, what with getting 20XP for a kill compared to 50 for a non-lethal melee knockout, plus the Ghost and some other bonus. The boss fights seem almost like an apology to the players who "foolishly" decided they wanted to play aggressively.
Always wondered why Naked Fleshy Man's plasma gun did more damage than when I was using it.
I'm glad I got the rocket launcher before the first boss fight; 1 frag grenade to disorient him, 1 rocket, 6 revolver shots and 1 assault rifle bullet. Didn't even take 1 minute to kill him.
The "Boss" fights were lame and immersion breaking.
That part at the end where you have to talk that guy down to get the
that felt like a boss fight (in the context of the game).
I'm glad I got the rocket launcher before the first boss fight; 1 frag grenade to disorient him, 1 rocket, 6 revolver shots and 1 assault rifle bullet. Didn't even take 1 minute to kill him.
The "Boss" fights were lame and immersion breaking.
That part at the end where you have to talk that guy down to get the
codes to disable the worldwide killswitch,
I've given up playing out of frustration with the third boss. Not only does it have the usual problem of having to fight a grenade spamming instakill boss in a horrendously forced & poorly justified situation; but because of a decision made earlier in the game I have to try & put up with it while my HUD is dancing around the screen, obscuring the view & rendering it impossible to see my health, ammo or minimap.
*Potential spoilers*
Where was the option to hack into the security network, see the boss coming and take him out with the security turrets, or set a robot on them?
Where was the option to sneak into the vents and bypass them completely?
Where was the option to use your social augs to talk the mercs around to your side?
All of the boss fights felt sloppy, and poorly designed, and I'm amazed that they ever made it through playtesting.
Well, yeah you can drop points in to both, but what if you don't want to? I certainly didn't, I wanted to use all my augs on mobility and stealth, but the game forced my hand and I ended up having to pick some augs I really didn't want because I knew I'd need them. Broke the whole 'play the way you want to' deal for me.poiumty said:
The only hacks in the game that I remember being forced to make (i.e. to advance the main plotline) were level 1. Thus I didn't need any augs to complete them. In fact I finished the main story without dropping any points into hacking whatsoever.
Yes, they are. They are all combat options. Don't even pretend invisibility was an option, your batteries at full upgrade died too quick to be of any use in any of the boss fights.
Where was the option to hack into the security network, see the boss coming and take him out with the security turrets, or set a robot on them?
Where was the option to sneak into the vents and bypass them completely?
Where was the option to use your social augs to talk the mercs around to your side?
All of the boss fights felt sloppy, and poorly designed, and I'm amazed that they ever made it through playtesting.
Ya the repeating taunts are really annoying. I've no idea why they do them but they do. Though I did find the second boss fight sort of interesting. The water ripples to track the bad gal and the whole cat and mouse thing was kinda fun. Then again I liked that section of the game in general.
I see a lot of people saying 'oh the games biased towards hack/stealth gameplay, those people get more points than combat!'. (Not just in this thread, but in pretty much every thread about the boss fights)
Of course they do, they need more augs.
There are very few combat augs in the game, but a plethora of stealth and hacking ones. They need more points because they have more abilities to unlock.
Besides, once you've cleaned out a building there's nothing to stop you from looking around and getting all those 'Explorer' points.
Of course they do, they need more augs.
There are very few combat augs in the game, but a plethora of stealth and hacking ones. They need more points because they have more abilities to unlock.
Besides, once you've cleaned out a building there's nothing to stop you from looking around and getting all those 'Explorer' points.
How much more can this site rip on Human Revolution? Its not like the game was bad...
I'll admit the game has issues but it's sure a step above most at the moment.
I'll admit the game has issues but it's sure a step above most at the moment.
I disagree. The rediculous boss fights forced me to drop points into combat because my stealth setup was woefully inadequate to deal with them.poiumty said:
Combat was the only way to deal with the bosses. At no other point in the game was this the case, there was always another route, you just had to find it.
It's not ripping on DX:HR. No one is ripping on DX:HR. The game is universally well received and seemingly loved by all.Stabby Joe said:
What they are ripping on are the unnecessary, immersion breaking boss fights. And rightly so. They are a major detraction from an otherwise (to my mind) near flawless game.
The criticism is fair, but after the video and article by Yahtzee... I'm waiting for a new video and/or article on it.WaysideMaze said:
Thank you for putting so fine a point on it. This has really given a lot of focus to the complaints, and raised some issues that can be resolved.Shamus Young said:
(Unfortunately, it's one of those design-by-committee problems our current climate seems to love. You lose the unity of tone and focus when you leave pivotal moments of your game to the whims of someone else.)
I was shocked(and happy that I didn't do/know that on my first playthrough) when I discovered a way to instantly kill the last boss!FredTheUndead said:
As soon as the cutscene ends, shoot Zhao with the laser rifle through the glass - victory!
Pretty much agree except for point 2, I honestly found all the bosses to be a joke. The 10mm pistol upgraded is the most silly overpowered gun in the game. Seriously, I used every upgrade I found on it and only pulled it out for boss fights, and I didn't spend a single point in any of the related praxis abilities (in fact I usually ran around the game with 6-8 available praxis points because I filled out hacking off the bad and really wasn't interested in anything else and only really invested in things when the game semi forced me to (ie leaving the Tower after meeting a certain lady and her guards filling the room).
But I digress, first boss I just threw every barrel at him, then a few shots with the pistol while he was in the gas and he was dead, second boss stun and unloaded the pistol into her head...dead within like 10 seconds; and I was playing on Give Me Deus Ex.
But I digress, first boss I just threw every barrel at him, then a few shots with the pistol while he was in the gas and he was dead, second boss stun and unloaded the pistol into her head...dead within like 10 seconds; and I was playing on Give Me Deus Ex.
I winced every time there was a poorly rendered muddy cutscene showing Jensen doing something outstandingly stupid. Not only is stupidity immersion breaking, but the cutscenes are of such low quality it boggles the mind.
I love how most people seem to be taking a stealthy/non-violent approach to the game rather than wading in guns blazing. Is that because the game favours it? Because the gunplay is bad? (I haven't really fired a gun yet, even on the bosses) Or because people have been crying out for a stealthy game with a lot to explore? I really hope it is the latter and we get a few more like that, with clever ways to work around bosses that actually have some characterisation.
I love how most people seem to be taking a stealthy/non-violent approach to the game rather than wading in guns blazing. Is that because the game favours it? Because the gunplay is bad? (I haven't really fired a gun yet, even on the bosses) Or because people have been crying out for a stealthy game with a lot to explore? I really hope it is the latter and we get a few more like that, with clever ways to work around bosses that actually have some characterisation.
I recognize all of the points. And it got me really confused when I in the hubs could toy around and test my abilities chat or ignore people as I wanted. But boss fights bam shot them and thats it... wait what just happened.. I sneaked around everyone and could easily hid from this one but no not gonna happen...
I got down to my most boring and unreal way of dealing with the first bosses "run-and-gun" really I ran around fired a shot whenever I saw the boss and then just kept on running, by doing that I kept on healing. I think this is a waaay to boring way to deal with hard enemies works in to many games, you-fire-then-duck and repeat.. why do they not lay out a mine or two to stop me?
PS. first time I just lazed the last one (did not want to kill "it" because I had some guns saved for the final big bang,,,) when testing how the laser worked and went: Wait I'm done..? where is the real final? I hadn't realized how you could use the laser before.. It felt like a "glitch" or bug more than anything else..
Oh well I should really stop repeating what everyone else says "good game but the boss fights..."
O well using the ahem "burger-menu" I can replay what I really liked..
I got down to my most boring and unreal way of dealing with the first bosses "run-and-gun" really I ran around fired a shot whenever I saw the boss and then just kept on running, by doing that I kept on healing. I think this is a waaay to boring way to deal with hard enemies works in to many games, you-fire-then-duck and repeat.. why do they not lay out a mine or two to stop me?
PS. first time I just lazed the last one (did not want to kill "it" because I had some guns saved for the final big bang,,,) when testing how the laser worked and went: Wait I'm done..? where is the real final? I hadn't realized how you could use the laser before.. It felt like a "glitch" or bug more than anything else..
Oh well I should really stop repeating what everyone else says "good game but the boss fights..."
O well using the ahem "burger-menu" I can replay what I really liked..