Deus Ex: Human Revolution... Why do we care ?

ShadowFighter15

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You seem to have, again, missed one important bit of information about the setting. You keep saying that HR's setting has nothing to do with the first game when plenty people (myself included) have pointed out that it's a prequel - that's the official line, the events of the game will lead to the founding of UNATCO, the anti-terrorist organisation JC Denton worked for in the first game.

As for the Tokyo-ish look? If you're referring to that city that looks like it's got two layers to it (and most of the trailers appear to have been set there), according to the Deus Ex wiki, that's Heng Sha; a densely populated island off the coast of Shanghai.
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Heng_Sha

Detroit, on the other hand, looks pretty much like a modern-day city: http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Detroit

EDIT: I also found this on the Deus Ex wiki that gives a bit more info on the Renaissance look of the game:

"The pace of technological development is reflected visually by a Renaissance theme. Characters who support the advances of human augmentation dress themselves and decorate their homes in reinterpreted late-mediaeval Italian style, and the game as a whole has a sepia-tinted colour palette reminiscent of historic manuscripts. In contrast, characters who oppose augmentation wear clothing that is more or less current-day. "
 

katsabas

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Why? Cause you get to have a handgun that shoots grenades. And because the transition from 1st to 3rd person is not awkward like in Fallout 3. Also, elbow knifes, cloaking devices and weapons that can see and fire through walls. I don't even need to have played the first one to know that this is covered in awesome.
 

Kahunaburger

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defiante1 said:
My issue with the art style wasn't that its wrong or inferior, is that it has nothing to do with the first game. The setting looks completely different, the setting in the first game. The first game was not massively Japanese influenced like this one clearly is. The setting reeks of modern day Tokyo with a terrible colour pallet. Everything is smeared brown like some bland FPS.

The first game went to real world locations, all over the world, not just some oriental backdrop that looks like courasant from star wars smeared with dirt. That was my issue with the art style, giving it a more anime spin and Japanese spin ruins a lot of the concept and ruins a lot of the future noir cyberpunk. To quote Jlstoo above me.
ShadowFighter15 addressed this issue: in this game you're traveling around the world. The Asian-looking cityscape looks Asian because it's in Asia. The Detroit cityscape looks like a futuristic Detroit, and is more in line with the first game's New York.

And in terms of the cityscape "looking anime" - read Neuromancer, then watch the original Ghost in the Shell. The first game looks like the Ghost in the Shell urban aesthetic - lived-in, somewhat run-down modern cityscapes - and was probably directly influenced by Ghost in the Shell. The new look for Heng Sha is more in line with the cities in Neuromancer - lights, glowing billboards in multiple languages, futuristic architecture, etc. So, if anything, the art design got less Anime, if we're taking Ghost in the Shell as the gold standard for anime cyberpunk and Neuromancer as the gold standard for non-anime cyberpunk.

defiante1 said:
Many games have tried that and none have succeeded like the first, so far we have seen no evidence to suggest it has anything as good as that save trailers and screen shots which really don't show good game play. Just hard action, something we know from the film world is that trailers all look awesome but rarely portray an awesome film.
So you're angry because the trailer looks like a trailer? There are some early reviews out, actually - those will satisfy your curiosity about actual gameplay.

defiante1 said:
Now to the subject of Square Enix, my words about them appeared to have angered a few so let me explain. Square Enix do not make good games and have not since FF7. Period.
The World Ends With You.

(And, in any case, Square Enix isn't actually the company making this game - that would be Eidos Montreal, who published the first Deus Ex. SE's contribution basically begins and ends with the cutscenes.)

defiante1 said:
heavy, pretentious topics and characters
Did you play the first Deus Ex? I seem to recall it being about a three-way struggle between anarchists, a newborn machine-god, and the freakin Illuminati. And the protagonist is named "J.C." for a reason.

defiante1 said:
the cliche characters and bad writing archetypes (pretentious main character, typical dark broody anti hero with a black trench coat and sunglasses. Comprimised writting, pandering to crowds) How is this Deus ex ?
Again, did you play the first Deus Ex? This is JC Denton:

Note the black trenchcoat and sunglasses. He's also prone to philosophizing and talking in a gravelly voice.
 

No_Remainders

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EcksTeaSea said:
Because it looks good. Why is any other reason needed?
Pretty much this.

OT:
I'm definitely going to rent it before buying, as I've been fooled before by the Deus Ex series (Fuck you, "Invisible War"!), but I'm quietly confident that it won't be as bad.

I'm hoping that it'll go back to the amazing quality of the original.

Thinking back on it, I might give Invisible War another chance. After all, it wasn't really that bad. It was just the fact that I had done a replay of the first one just before playing Invisible War... Hmm...
 

Sebster 105

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Okay.

A) It's Deus Ex
B) It's Not linear
C) It's building on Deus Ex's concept using modern technowledgy
D) It's Deus Ex
E) It's got CONSPIRACIES
F) YOU HAVE ROBOT ARMS AND KNIVES ATTACHED TO YOUR ELBOWES
G) It's Deus Ex
H) You have spiky hair
I) It looks nice
J) There are multiple progress paths
K) IT'S DEUS EX
 

Samurai Goomba

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Cyberpunk as a genre is probably as much or more prone to following too closely to its own tropes as something like, say, the classic fantasy genre. In a game, the chance to subvert those cliches is always as available, because not everyone playing will be FAMILIAR with the tropes, so if you remove them then some will say "well, this isn't Cyberpunk at all."

Cyberpunk is almost defined by tropes and cliches, and it's really good writing that makes or breaks stories within the genre. Look at Ghost in the Shell, Neuromancer, Broken Angels, the original Deus Ex, Snow Crash, etc. They're all cliched in a sense (except Neuromancer, because it STARTED this nonsense), but the writing makes them enjoyable anyway. And yeah, in literature you find more subversion of cliche (Snow Crash is good example).

It remains to be seen if Deus Ex 3 will be any good. For the record, I loved both the Deus Ex games (they both have brilliant stories, and those who have a knee-jerk hatred of Invisible War are probably just holding its few design missteps against it, not remembering how strong the writing and characterization was), and I have no reason to think the next game will be bad. I'll probably buy it close to release, which I rarely do.

Deus Ex 3 and FEAR 3 are the two games I'm most looking forward to this year.
 

GrizzlerBorno

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Some points that bothered me:
defiante1 said:
There is no reason to belive anything will be done right in this, especially since the dreaded Square Enix is controlling a large portion of it. A company that doesn't need that infamous exploits listed.
Square Enix does not have creative control of the game. That falls onto the hands of the fine folks at Eidos Montreal, A subset of the former Eidos Interactive; as in the company that published Deus Ex (1) in the First place.

defiante1 said:
The game also has a massively overt cliche nature to it, the main protagonist drinks whiskey, smokes and talks with the gravelly voice of Batman... Posing massively with this whole flight of Icarus type metaphor they have going with him...
You've seen, what, five minutes of the protagonist? and you're willing to write him off as a cliche Just because he has a rough voice and drinks whiskey? You know nothing ABOUT HIM.

And as far as I can tell, They handled the Icarus metaphor very well. And I instantly respect a game story that is actually MATURE enough to handle an intelligent metaphor in stride anyway. CoD would run screaming to it's mother if you so much as asked it what a Metaphor was.

defiante1 said:
...Everything from sexualized females to ridiculous story writing attempts that while may work in Japanese culture, rarely translate into a Western idea of a story. Squire Enix has also announced that it will not be related to the previous Deus Ex games in any way story wise save for basic universe.
I have seen exactly ZERO sexualiased females in the game. and you can't judge the "story writing attempts" because YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE STORY YET. You literally have no Idea what the story is! None of us do!

And Deus Ex: HR is a prequel to the original. In that sense it is "[un]related", but I have a VERY good feeling you would have been whining if it WAS a direct sequel.

Of course none of this matters. You are, for some reason, determined to hate the game, so you will. I can't stop that. Just don't start crying if the game turns out to be great(and I DO mean "if", because I don't know if the game will be good) and you've skipped it for some personal (probably pointless) vendetta.
 

ShadowFighter15

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GrizzlerBorno said:
I have seen exactly ZERO sexualiased females in the game.
I think he may be over-reacting to these two characters:
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Yelena_Federova
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Eliza_Cassan

In the latter case, I think she's an AI or some kind of computer simulation so her appearance would be based on what the network thought would get the best ratings. I think the former's just high on augs. It'd certainly explain that haircut, I mean LOOK AT THE THING!
 

Sacman

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May 15, 2008
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Kahunaburger said:
defiante1 said:
My issue with the art style wasn't that its wrong or inferior, is that it has nothing to do with the first game. The setting looks completely different, the setting in the first game. The first game was not massively Japanese influenced like this one clearly is. The setting reeks of modern day Tokyo with a terrible colour pallet. Everything is smeared brown like some bland FPS.

The first game went to real world locations, all over the world, not just some oriental backdrop that looks like courasant from star wars smeared with dirt. That was my issue with the art style, giving it a more anime spin and Japanese spin ruins a lot of the concept and ruins a lot of the future noir cyberpunk. To quote Jlstoo above me.
ShadowFighter15 addressed this issue: in this game you're traveling around the world. The Asian-looking cityscape looks Asian because it's in Asia. The Detroit cityscape looks like a futuristic Detroit, and is more in line with the first game's New York.

And in terms of the cityscape "looking anime" - read Neuromancer, then watch the original Ghost in the Shell. The first game looks like the Ghost in the Shell urban aesthetic - lived-in, somewhat run-down modern cityscapes - and was probably directly influenced by Ghost in the Shell. The new look for Heng Sha is more in line with the cities in Neuromancer - lights, glowing billboards in multiple languages, futuristic architecture, etc. So, if anything, the art design got less Anime, if we're taking Ghost in the Shell as the gold standard for anime cyberpunk and Neuromancer as the gold standard for non-anime cyberpunk.
Also don't forget that almost all scifi anime took inspiration from western cyberpunk, it's just how eastern animation evolved so there would obviously be similarities between the "standards"

but honestly if you look at the differences between the city in say, Ghost in the Shell and Blade Runner they're both similar, a dark, rundown, over populated city, with mixed cultural influences and little government control... now take that and apply it to Deus Ex and it fits decently as a description of it's universe... my point is that there isn't enough of a difference to notice simply from a look at a color palette and a few screens... the real difference between Eastern and Western depictions is in the way they handle things like Story, Themes and Characters... and even that tends to lean in favor of, at least for me, eastern depictions because the story has more room for experimentation and the themes are typically at the forefront and not being drowned out by action, Matrix style...

by the way I tend to use Blade Runner as the standard for visual and theme comparison, mostly because it was more popular and had more influence on pop culture and the visuals are set in stone and aren't as open for interpretation...

Also I see no point in arguing with the OP anymore, he's just being an ignorant naysayer with a Knee Jerk reaction like we saw with Dragon Age 2 and Portal 2...

also it would be fun if we compared it to other cyberpunk anime like Serial Experiments Lain and Dennou Coil...

 

Thespian

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I never played the first. I care because this one looks like a fun stealth game.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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kman123 said:
Seriously? This game looks potentially GOTY. Looks like everything Deus Ex did RIGHT. The whole prequel, mechanical augments looks great, the previews I've seen look amazing, apparently everyone is talking up this game.

Maybe it won't live up to the hype...but damn it, I'm gonna buy it and love it.
"In my very very very important and always right opinion I belive it looks like crap and that we should all hate it right now"

and that right there is what bothers me about gaming and the internet
 

GrizzlerBorno

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ShadowFighter15 said:
GrizzlerBorno said:
I have seen exactly ZERO sexualiased females in the game.
I think he may be over-reacting to these two characters:
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Yelena_Federova
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Eliza_Cassan

In the latter case, I think she's an AI or some kind of computer simulation so her appearance would be based on what the network thought would get the best ratings. I think the former's just high on augs. It'd certainly explain that haircut, I mean LOOK AT THE THING!
Neither of those seem remotely sexualised to me. I mean one of them is wearing a fucking Baroque corset for cris'sakes!
 

Sacman

Don't Bend! Ascend!
May 15, 2008
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GrizzlerBorno said:
ShadowFighter15 said:
GrizzlerBorno said:
I have seen exactly ZERO sexualiased females in the game.
I think he may be over-reacting to these two characters:
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Yelena_Federova
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Eliza_Cassan

In the latter case, I think she's an AI or some kind of computer simulation so her appearance would be based on what the network thought would get the best ratings. I think the former's just high on augs. It'd certainly explain that haircut, I mean LOOK AT THE THING!
Neither of those seem remotely sexualised to me. I mean one of them is wearing a fucking Baroque corset for cris'sakes!
Well that really depends what you're into... at which point you can argue that just about everything is sexualized...<.<
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Sacman said:
Kahunaburger said:
defiante1 said:
My issue with the art style wasn't that its wrong or inferior, is that it has nothing to do with the first game. The setting looks completely different, the setting in the first game. The first game was not massively Japanese influenced like this one clearly is. The setting reeks of modern day Tokyo with a terrible colour pallet. Everything is smeared brown like some bland FPS.

The first game went to real world locations, all over the world, not just some oriental backdrop that looks like courasant from star wars smeared with dirt. That was my issue with the art style, giving it a more anime spin and Japanese spin ruins a lot of the concept and ruins a lot of the future noir cyberpunk. To quote Jlstoo above me.
ShadowFighter15 addressed this issue: in this game you're traveling around the world. The Asian-looking cityscape looks Asian because it's in Asia. The Detroit cityscape looks like a futuristic Detroit, and is more in line with the first game's New York.

And in terms of the cityscape "looking anime" - read Neuromancer, then watch the original Ghost in the Shell. The first game looks like the Ghost in the Shell urban aesthetic - lived-in, somewhat run-down modern cityscapes - and was probably directly influenced by Ghost in the Shell. The new look for Heng Sha is more in line with the cities in Neuromancer - lights, glowing billboards in multiple languages, futuristic architecture, etc. So, if anything, the art design got less Anime, if we're taking Ghost in the Shell as the gold standard for anime cyberpunk and Neuromancer as the gold standard for non-anime cyberpunk.
Also don't forget that almost all scifi anime took inspiration from western cyberpunk, it's just how eastern animation evolved so there would obviously be similarities between the "standards"

but honestly if you look at the differences between the city in say, Ghost in the Shell and Blade Runner they're both similar, a dark, rundown, over populated city, with mixed cultural influences and little government control... now take that and apply it to Deus Ex and it fits decently as a description of it's universe... my point is that there isn't enough of a difference to notice simply from a look at a color palette and a few screens... the real difference between Eastern and Western depictions is in the way they handle things like Story, Themes and Characters... and even that tends to lean in favor of, at least for me, eastern depictions because the story has more room for experimentation and the themes are typically at the forefront and not being drowned out by action, Matrix style...

by the way I tend to use Blade Runner as the standard for visual and theme comparison, mostly because it was more popular and had more influence on pop culture and the visuals are set in stone and aren't as open for interpretation...

Also I see no point in arguing with the OP anymore, he's just being an ignorant naysayer with a Knee Jerk reaction like we saw with Dragon Age 2 and Portal 2...

also it would be fun if we compared it to other cyberpunk anime like Serial Experiments Lain and Dennou Coil...

the idea that people could dislike portal 2....I mean not just "meh" but outright hate it...truly boggles the mind that said its opinion...I cannont change that (yet..mwaahahahaha)

anyway in regards to hype whenever people complain about it....is it me or it kind of sounds like "its YOUR fault I dont like the game because YOU made me think it was going to be the second coming of christ!"

like seriously....have some perspective?
 

GrizzlerBorno

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Sacman said:
GrizzlerBorno said:
ShadowFighter15 said:
GrizzlerBorno said:
I have seen exactly ZERO sexualiased females in the game.
I think he may be over-reacting to these two characters:
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Yelena_Federova
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Eliza_Cassan

In the latter case, I think she's an AI or some kind of computer simulation so her appearance would be based on what the network thought would get the best ratings. I think the former's just high on augs. It'd certainly explain that haircut, I mean LOOK AT THE THING!
Neither of those seem remotely sexualised to me. I mean one of them is wearing a fucking Baroque corset for cris'sakes!
Well that really depends what you're into... at which point you can argue that just about everything is sexualized...<.<
No. Sexualised (females) means to specifically pander to males by emphasizing the parts of the female body that are biologically designed to stimulate males in a sexual way. So, say, Ivy from Soul Caliber (aka, the obligatory example) is sexualiased because she has massive Boobs spilling out of her dress...thing; and boobs make Men horny by the merit of how our bodies work; Baroque corsets? Not so much. It's not a matter of taste. It's a matter of Biology and evolution.
 

ShadowFighter15

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I think for Yelena it's because, if you look at her in the pre-rendered trailer they released a while ago, she looks like she's wearing a semi skin-tight bodysuit that shows off her arse quite well.

Personally, I've just thought of another explanation. She's wearing *nothing* and what looks like body armour is actually the artificial muscles of her augmentations. Probably wrong, but it's an interesting idea.