Diablo III's Auction House

[John Funk]

This is just another step down that slippery slope. This is also a bad sign for that yet to be announced MMO Blizz is working on I believe. Looking at how they have been treating WoW lately and now this it's clear Blizz is far more interested in developing ways to separate players from their money than they are making good games. Real world currency has NO PLACE in a game except for the initial purchase and subscription fees if they should apply.

But it'll be there anyway, if you remember Diablo 2. It's the exact same argument in the real-world drug trade, actually: Prohibition doesn't work, and it ends up funneling more money to the black market (drug dealers, or in this case gold/item sellers) with less security (laced/dangerous drugs, or duped/inaccurate items). If you can never stamp it out entirely, why not provide it a secure environment?

Basically, people complaining about the auction house never played Diablo 2 online

Sir, I am offended and appalled that you would make such an accusation, as I am an unprofessional devil's advocate and Diablo 2 player.
Meaning that I can both complain about the auction house and play Diablo 2 online. Have at you! >


On a more serious note....I understand what blizzard is trying. They are trying really hard to keep moving in this up-to date world with all the Pirates and stuff....but the problem is that they are caught up in a bad race. Always on? Hell, there is no way I will get a game like that. Because then I not only have to depend on my ISP, I also have to depend on my router, my computer equipment for online play, and also the servers on their end. Too much dependency that is out of my hands.

The auction house sounds good on paper, but I think it ignores how many people can abuse said system, and how it doesn't even stop what they claim. This system is 100% secure? When someone says that, run, DON'T WALK, away. Especially in online environments this is a stupid idea to think that you are secure, that people won't be hacked, that accounts won't be compromised, and that users are not stupid and won't give away their information to random messages that look official.

Sorry Blizzard, you used to be cool and all, but I can't play your games.

well, to the best of my knowledge the WoW AH hasn't ever been hacked yet - any security breaches are always on the client's end. Which, like you said, relies on people not being dumb.

This is why the Bnet Authenticator is the best thing ever

 

[Uszi]

More and more Blizzard is starting to piss me off with the stupid shit they're doing with Diablo 3.

First was with the stupid ass idea to give every character their own "magic" system and it make it more confusing then the basic mana system. Then getting rid of the town portal scrolls. Now this bullshit, ughh this just reeks of Kotick not knowing jackshit about games.

Yeah, I'm not sure this is the right solution to gold and item selling. It reeks of Kotick.

I love how they are claiming they are using this system to curb players accounts getting jacked. "Definitely one of the biggest problems with WoW is the account compromises that happen from all those situations." But lets also take a bit of money from each and every transaction. What? It's for your own safety!

Did they forget why they were trying to stop gold sellers in the first place? Cause it fucks your game. Man, glad I'm not at all interested in this game.

Why exactly can't we buy and sell with the in-game currency? Why must real money get involved if this is really to "facilitate trading?"

I gotta say, I smell Kotick all over this.

So basically, Gold farming is okay so long as Blizzard gets their due cut.
Great.

Wow, so people half-read the article, or just read the title, and post knee jerk reactions... Nice.

I don't buy the argument that they're motivated primarily by greed: Blizzard wasted a lot of time and energy trying to fight the black market economies of Diablo 2 and WoW, only to learn that players are going to find ways around safeguards to engage in unsafe, real money transactions with unknown 3rd party entities.

So, rather than continuing to waste their time, they're simply integrating that experience into the game. Ultimately this system is safer for players who might otherwise be giving access to their accounts or credit cards to strangers on the internet. This reminds me of my stance on abortion: while I personally wouldn't want to abort, I'd rather there be a safe system in place to protect those who are going to do it, come hell or high-water.

If you don't want to participate in real money exchanges, then don't. Simple as that. There is a gold based auction house, and there are still player to player trades like there were in Diablo 2.

As far as them charging fees on the transactions, I think that an aspect of it is taking "their piece of the pie," but certainly another part of it is paying for an extensive value added feature. Running a 24/7 mini-Ebay in game requires additional staffing and resources, and the fairest way to cover those costs would be to charge players on a transactional basis, based on how much they use the system.

To those crying "Greed!," how do you suggest that Blizzard cover the costs of running the extensive auction house system, given that Diablo 3 isn't going to be subscription based? Should they charge more for the game up front? How much more? What happens a few years down the line when many fewer people are paying up front for the game, but still using persistent features like the Auction house?

Or should it just rain gumdrops and lollipops and everything should be free?




Finally: apparently Kotick has become a word synonymous with scape goat.

 

[Uszi]

Ok Pardo.. ive got a real easy solution. Seeings how your the organization who controls the code of the game, Perhaps, maybe, you can code to prevent these transactions all together. Yeah go ahead, cut the connectivity cord. Wouldnt that be easier than making a system you are trying to sound like you dont want?

Yes...clear and blatant cash grab. At least have the decency to admit its a blatant cash grab.

How do you code in game for people logging onto the internet outside of the game, and giving account/credit card information to item traders?

Are you even aware of what the problem is? [http://www.d2ok.com/]

The easier way would be to remove the effect currency has on the market, or build a more stable economy, but that wouldn't fill their coffers as fast.

Who cares if a parent's credit card is emptied? Blizzard obviously doesn't.

The security of parents' credit cards is not Blizzard's responsibility.

I don't know about you, but I have never been tempted to steal from my parents.

In any event, a game rated M shouldn't have unsupervised, underage players anyway.

So double fail for parents with drained accounts.

because of the way the game type is setup, in an mmo items are supposed to be hard to get since it makes you play longer, this is a dungeon crawler though, its about tons of items and quickly finding new replacement items, with perhaps a bit of rareness to some really good ones, really there is only one type of item that goes into this sort of thing at all and it is the set piece item, which is a stupid idea for this game type anyway

So you've never played Diablo 2?

How many MF runs did you do on Hell Mephisto?

As someone who has literally done thousands of magic find runs, who's spent hours trading in D2, I can tell you that getting high tier gear without resorting to the black market is much more punishing in D2 than it is in WoW. For instance, just about any character who raids enough will eventually complete the high tier armor sets in WoW. On the other hand, it's impossible to get the ideal Hammerdin build in D2 without trading for duped Zod runes or a duped Enigma, or just buying one on the internet.

 

[Xanthious]

This is just another step down that slippery slope. This is also a bad sign for that yet to be announced MMO Blizz is working on I believe. Looking at how they have been treating WoW lately and now this it's clear Blizz is far more interested in developing ways to separate players from their money than they are making good games. Real world currency has NO PLACE in a game except for the initial purchase and subscription fees if they should apply.

But it'll be there anyway, if you remember Diablo 2. It's the exact same argument in the real-world drug trade, actually: Prohibition doesn't work, and it ends up funneling more money to the black market (drug dealers, or in this case gold/item sellers) with less security (laced/dangerous drugs, or duped/inaccurate items). If you can never stamp it out entirely, why not provide it a secure environment?

The "It's going to happen anyway" argument is such a defeatist stance on the whole thing it makes me sick. A lot of bad things are going to happen anyway but by no means does that mean they should be embraced. Murder is going to happen despite anyone's best effort as is rape, arson, etc. It would be insane to say "Well those are going to happen anyway so lets see how we can turn a profit off of em". It takes zero character to do what Blizz has done and cave.

By doing this Blizzard has simply admitted defeat to the Chinese gold farmers and offered to set up a nice portion Diablo 3 for them to operate. The only real question in my mind is whether or not this decision was made out of being lazy and gutless or simply being greedy.

It woudln't be so bad if they were to offer up servers for people to who don't want to pay their way to victory. However, they have already said they will not be doing so and as such it pretty much makes the gold auction houses dead on arrival and turns the entire D3 economy into one based off of real world money. There will be no place for players who want to play online without feeling forced into paying real world money to do so.

 

[TheDooD]

snip

Diablo 3 doesn't need, shit it never NEEDS an auction house because players should never ever be able to buy power. Other games that have auction houses have serious problems with players overcharging so only those leet players can use the items. This happened in NEXON ran F2P MMO's it's still happening in WOW. Plus players will still find a way to cheat the system. Also you have to remember D3 will have a PVP mode having an auction house basically breaks this mode because normal players playing legitimately without using the house will hardly be able to beat the paying players with all the broken gear they shelled money out for. It's splits the D3 community all paid players will looks like scum to all players that put in all that hard work for their items.

 

[John Funk]

This is just another step down that slippery slope. This is also a bad sign for that yet to be announced MMO Blizz is working on I believe. Looking at how they have been treating WoW lately and now this it's clear Blizz is far more interested in developing ways to separate players from their money than they are making good games. Real world currency has NO PLACE in a game except for the initial purchase and subscription fees if they should apply.

But it'll be there anyway, if you remember Diablo 2. It's the exact same argument in the real-world drug trade, actually: Prohibition doesn't work, and it ends up funneling more money to the black market (drug dealers, or in this case gold/item sellers) with less security (laced/dangerous drugs, or duped/inaccurate items). If you can never stamp it out entirely, why not provide it a secure environment?

The "It's going to happen anyway" argument is such a defeatist stance on the whole thing it makes me sick. A lot of bad things are going to happen anyway but by no means does that mean they should be embraced. Murder is going to happen despite anyone's best effort as is rape, arson, etc. It would be insane to say "Well those are going to happen anyway so lets see how we can turn a profit off of em". It takes zero character to do what Blizz has done and cave.

By doing this Blizzard has simply admitted defeat to the Chinese gold farmers and offered to set up a nice portion Diablo 3 for them to operate. The only real question in my mind is whether or not this decision was made out of being lazy and gutless or simply being greedy.

It woudln't be so bad if they were to offer up servers for people to who don't want to pay their way to victory. However, they have already said they will not be doing so and as such it pretty much makes the gold auction houses dead on arrival and turns the entire D3 economy into one based off of real world money. There will be no place for players who want to play online without feeling forced into paying real world money to do so.

Actually, look at EVE Online for an almost perfect analogue. I know plenty of people who still play EVE without ever dropping a cent on the game.

If one way of combating a problem doesn't work, then the answer isn't to keep trying it. It's to try something new - and this, at least, is a model that has had proven success in games like EVE.

 

[John Funk]

More and more Blizzard is starting to piss me off with the stupid shit they're doing with Diablo 3.

First was with the stupid ass idea to give every character their own "magic" system and it make it more confusing then the basic mana system. Then getting rid of the town portal scrolls. Now this bullshit, ughh this just reeks of Kotick not knowing jackshit about games.

Yeah, I'm not sure this is the right solution to gold and item selling. It reeks of Kotick.

I love how they are claiming they are using this system to curb players accounts getting jacked. "Definitely one of the biggest problems with WoW is the account compromises that happen from all those situations." But lets also take a bit of money from each and every transaction. What? It's for your own safety!

Did they forget why they were trying to stop gold sellers in the first place? Cause it fucks your game. Man, glad I'm not at all interested in this game.

Why exactly can't we buy and sell with the in-game currency? Why must real money get involved if this is really to "facilitate trading?"

I gotta say, I smell Kotick all over this.

So basically, Gold farming is okay so long as Blizzard gets their due cut.
Great.

Wow, so people half-read the article, or just read the title, and post knee jerk reactions... Nice.

I don't buy the argument that they're motivated primarily by greed: Blizzard wasted a lot of time and energy trying to fight the black market economies of Diablo 2 and WoW, only to learn that players are going to find ways around safeguards to engage in unsafe, real money transactions with unknown 3rd party entities.

So, rather than continuing to waste their time, they're simply integrating that experience into the game. Ultimately this system is safer for players who might otherwise be giving access to their accounts or credit cards to strangers on the internet. This reminds me of my stance on abortion: while I personally wouldn't want to abort, I'd rather there be a safe system in place to protect those who are going to do it, come hell or high-water.

If you don't want to participate in real money exchanges, then don't. Simple as that. There is a gold based auction house, and there are still player to player trades like there were in Diablo 2.

As far as them charging fees on the transactions, I think that an aspect of it is taking "their piece of the pie," but certainly another part of it is paying for an extensive value added feature. Running a 24/7 mini-Ebay in game requires additional staffing and resources, and the fairest way to cover those costs would be to charge players on a transactional basis, based on how much they use the system.

To those crying "Greed!," how do you suggest that Blizzard cover the costs of running the extensive auction house system, given that Diablo 3 isn't going to be subscription based? Should they charge more for the game up front? How much more? What happens a few years down the line when many fewer people are paying up front for the game, but still using persistent features like the Auction house?

Or should it just rain gumdrops and lollipops and everything should be free?




Finally: apparently Kotick has become a word synonymous with scape goat.

Ok Pardo.. ive got a real easy solution. Seeings how your the organization who controls the code of the game, Perhaps, maybe, you can code to prevent these transactions all together. Yeah go ahead, cut the connectivity cord. Wouldnt that be easier than making a system you are trying to sound like you dont want?

Yes...clear and blatant cash grab. At least have the decency to admit its a blatant cash grab.

How do you code in game for people logging onto the internet outside of the game, and giving account/credit card information to item traders?

Are you even aware of what the problem is? [http://www.d2ok.com/]

The easier way would be to remove the effect currency has on the market, or build a more stable economy, but that wouldn't fill their coffers as fast.

Who cares if a parent's credit card is emptied? Blizzard obviously doesn't.

The security of parents' credit cards is not Blizzard's responsibility.

I don't know about you, but I have never been tempted to steal from my parents.

In any event, a game rated M shouldn't have unsupervised, underage players anyway.

So double fail for parents with drained accounts.

because of the way the game type is setup, in an mmo items are supposed to be hard to get since it makes you play longer, this is a dungeon crawler though, its about tons of items and quickly finding new replacement items, with perhaps a bit of rareness to some really good ones, really there is only one type of item that goes into this sort of thing at all and it is the set piece item, which is a stupid idea for this game type anyway

So you've never played Diablo 2?

How many MF runs did you do on Hell Mephisto?

As someone who has literally done thousands of magic find runs, who's spent hours trading in D2, I can tell you that getting high tier gear without resorting to the black market is much more punishing in D2 than it is in WoW. For instance, just about any character who raids enough will eventually complete the high tier armor sets in WoW. On the other hand, it's impossible to get the ideal Hammerdin build in D2 without trading for duped Zod runes or a duped Enigma, or just buying one on the internet.

^

Everyone listen to this man. HE SPEAKS SENSE. (And actually played a lot of D2 online )

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

The security of parents' credit cards is not Blizzard's responsibility.

The legal usage is though. There's also the repeated notion of financial responsibilty.

I don't know about you, but I have never been tempted to steal from my parents.

I don't engage in ad hominem either.

In any event, a game rated M shouldn't have unsupervised, underage players anyway.

So double fail for parents with drained accounts.

You honestly don't think there's any Blizzard games out there with children under the legal limit?

And who says the users will be underage? Most teens know where their parent's card is.

 

[Xanthious]

Actually, look at EVE Online for an almost perfect analogue. I know plenty of people who still play EVE without ever dropping a cent on the game.

If one way of combating a problem doesn't work, then the answer isn't to keep trying it. It's to try something new - and this, at least, is a model that has had proven success in games like EVE.

Now I could be wrong about this admittedly but doesn't EVE Online offer only vanity items for real world money? I know you can buy game time with in game currency but as far as I know there is no way to spend real world money to buy items that make your character or ship more powerful. Of course as I said before my knowledge about EVE is limited but I think they came out recently and said there would never be "gold ammo" meaning paying money for a competitive advantage.

 

[Johnny Impact]

As far as I'm concerned this changes nothing.

When I played D2, very casually, it was full of people whose whole existences centered on that game and its rarer items. Through whatever means -- incessant grinding, spending real-world money on shady websites, ninja-looting -- those people had more and better stuff than I had. Always did, always would.

D3 will be full of similar people, folks who do nothing but D3, all the time. The kind of addictive personality they have means they *will* invest the time/gold/real money to be at the top of the heap. Whatever system is in place, they *will* work it as hard as they can for advantage. They *will* have more and better stuff than I do. Always. Nothing Blizzard or anyone else can do will change that.

The mechanism for empowering one's character will change only enough to allow Blizzard to make a few more dump trucks full of money off it. They will never be able to crush illicit trades, gold farmers, et cetera. It will always be a part of the game. So why not just make it legal, and increase profits? I do not agree with their choice but I do understand it.

I'm still going to play the game. I'm still going to play casual. Purchase price, then no more cash, regardless of what happens.

 

[fundayz]

They think this going to alleviate gold and item selling? /facepalm

Allowing a legitimate way to do this is going to increase the amount of people buying items and gold a hundred fold. Even though fighting RMT does not completely stop this, it HEAVILY DISCOURAGES it; this is going to cause a HUGE increase of people buyig gold and items.

This literally makes Diablo 3 a Pay2Win game! If I wanted that, I'd go play an Asian Hack n Slash MMO

 

[Uszi]

snip

Diablo 3 doesn't need, shit it never NEEDS an auction house because players should never ever be able to buy power. Other games that have auction houses have serious problems with players overcharging so only those leet players can use the items. This happened in NEXON ran F2P MMO's it's still happening in WOW. Plus players will still find a way to cheat the system. Also you have to remember D3 will have a PVP mode having an auction house basically breaks this mode because normal players playing legitimately without using the house will hardly be able to beat the paying players with all the broken gear they shelled money out for. It's splits the D3 community all paid players will looks like scum to all players that put in all that hard work for their items.

Blizzard has already stated that they aren't going to balance the game around multiplayer, since they consider the task impossible given the huge number of skill/rune/gear combinations.

There's a gold based auction house. Just use that?

If you don't support item trading at all, even gold based trading with zero investment of additional money, then you're looking at the wrong game. Trading is essentially the only reason Diablo 2 has remained as popular as it has, and the majority of Diablo 2 players who move on to Diablo 3 are going to expect a similar experience.

The legal usage is though. There's also the repeated notion of financial responsibilty.

Right, so maybe blizzard is encouraging gold farming or facilitating gold farming. I would disagree with you, but you're certainly entitled to that opinion. To say they are legalizing gold farming is an inaccurate and potentially disingenuous exaggeration. I doubt Blizzard as a company could affect the legal status of any activity in China.

I don't engage in ad hominem either.

Actually, I was assuming that you would agree with me that you haven't been tempted to do it, and that if the parents had done things right the kids wouldn't be stealing in the first place. It's only an ad hominem if I attacked you personally while not addressing your argument. I didn't attack you, and I did address your argument.

You honestly don't think there's any Blizzard games out there with children under the legal limit?

And who says the users will be underage? Most teens know where their parent's card is.

M is 18 and over. So anyone under the age of 18 is underage. There isn't exactly a grey area here.

There certainly are kids under 18 who play M rated games, I played Diablo 2 for the first time in middle school when I was 11 years old. But it's not Blizzard, or the ESRBs fault that my parents purchased an M rated game for me, or allowed me to play an M rated game that I received from someone else or purchased for myself. Ultimately they could have confiscated the game if they felt my playing it was problematic.

Now, when you say teens, and you ask, "Who says the users will be underage," I assume you're talking about an 18-19 year old teen who is free to purchase the game for themselves.

In the case of an 18-19 year old stealing credit cards, I still fail to see Blizzard's culpability.

 

[Gindil]

Obligatory Penny Arcade reference:

Link [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/4/25/]

Yep, Blizzard might be cooling off a long time where they're going.

 

[Uszi]

Everyone listen to this man. HE SPEAKS SENSE. (And actually played a lot of D2 online )

Is there a forum badge for this sort of thing?

As far as I'm concerned this changes nothing.

When I played D2, very casually, it was full of people whose whole existences centered on that game and its rarer items. Through whatever means -- incessant grinding, spending real-world money on shady websites, ninja-looting -- those people had more and better stuff than I had. Always did, always would.

D3 will be full of similar people, folks who do nothing but D3, all the time. The kind of addictive personality they have means they *will* invest the time/gold/real money to be at the top of the heap. Whatever system is in place, they *will* work it as hard as they can for advantage. They *will* have more and better stuff than I do. Always. Nothing Blizzard or anyone else can do will change that.

The mechanism for empowering one's character will change only enough to allow Blizzard to make a few more dump trucks full of money off it. They will never be able to crush illicit trades, gold farmers, et cetera. It will always be a part of the game. So why not just make it legal, and increase profits? I do not agree with their choice but I do understand it.

I'm still going to play the game. I'm still going to play casual. Purchase price, then no more cash, regardless of what happens.

This person also speaks sense.

People who've actually played Diablo 2, and went online at least once in awhile, realize that all this system is doing is making it safer for players to do exactly what they were doing before. If anything, it will level the playing field more.

Actually, it might be kinda cool to get paid to play if you participate in the system :3

 

[fundayz]

Blizzard has already stated that they aren't going to balance the game around multiplayer, since they consider the task impossible given the huge number of skill/rune/gear combinations.

There's a gold based auction house. Just use that?

So just because PvP isn't the highest balancing priority we are just going to let them break it? If RMT-bought items are allowed in PvP it WILL make the game Pay2Win. The people who use real money to buy items will always have an advantage over the average legitimate player.

Right, so maybe blizzard is encouraging gold farming or facilitating gold farming. I would disagree with you, but you're certainly entitled to that opinion. To say they are legalizing gold farming is an inaccurate and potentially disingenuous exaggeration. I doubt Blizzard as a company could affect the legal status of any activity in China.

How are they NOT encouraging and facilitating item/gold farming? They are giving item/gold farmers the tools and a risk-free way of performing transactions. They literally couldn't make it any easier for Asian farming companies without letting them straight out cheat.

And don't reply simply with "I disagree", if you don't give logical arguments to back up your opinion then your opinion is worth squat.

 

[TheDooD]

snip

Diablo 3 doesn't need, shit it never NEEDS an auction house because players should never ever be able to buy power. Other games that have auction houses have serious problems with players overcharging so only those leet players can use the items. This happened in NEXON ran F2P MMO's it's still happening in WOW. Plus players will still find a way to cheat the system. Also you have to remember D3 will have a PVP mode having an auction house basically breaks this mode because normal players playing legitimately without using the house will hardly be able to beat the paying players with all the broken gear they shelled money out for. It's splits the D3 community all paid players will looks like scum to all players that put in all that hard work for their items.

Blizzard has already stated that they aren't going to balance the game around multiplayer, since they consider the task impossible given the huge number of skill/rune/gear combinations.

There's a gold based auction house. Just use that?

If you don't support item trading at all, even gold based trading with zero investment of additional money, then you're looking at the wrong game. Trading is essentially the only reason Diablo 2 has remained as popular as it has, and the majority of Diablo 2 players who move on to Diablo 3 are going to expect a similar experience.

I support trading I don't support the money aspect of it at all. IMO I don't want anything to do with a game that basing itself around money. Plus in D2 the create a item mods basically makes all the black market BS invalid. Even a normal gold based auction will end up corrupt with overpriced gear. I play Diablo for the story and the gameplay not because I can validate my time by ripping people off for some chump change fuck that.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

There isn't exactly a grey area here.

Not with the rainbow bright ponies anyway.

Now,
Blizzard facilitating gold-farming. They've admitted to this.

?What?s the difference between a player that plays the game a lot and a gold farmer? They?re really doing the same activity. If you are doing an activity where all you?re trying to do is generate items for the auction house, you?re not making someone else?s game experience poorer. If anything you?re making the game better, because you?re generating items for the auction house that people want to purchase.?

'Farmers make the game better.'

I played Diablo 2 for the first time in middle school when I was 11 years old. But it's not Blizzard, or the ESRBs fault that my parents purchased an M rated game for me, or allowed me to play an M rated game that I received from someone else or purchased for myself.

We'll forget that you've just admitted (and been seconded) as having broke the terms and conditions of the EULA, and just go onto the credit card.

At 11, you may have wanted an item so much (and have one just bought for you) that you see the card as a reward. It's a means to get it. Neither you or I would do it, but there are people who might...so *BANG*, Toothrow is yours for $4.

Blizzard instantly has their parent's money and they have no way of re-imbursement.

That's Blizzard's culpability. If you have a PayToWin mentality, you also have a CheatToWin mentality. And Duping. And Farming. And all the rest of the problems associated with games that work with real money.

Now, if Blizzard are doing this, you'd at least expect them to take on the culpability of a bank like other MMOs [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/90348-MMO-Granted-Real-World-Banking-License], so that things like money laundering, farming and the like can be stomped on. Not profited from.

It's a legal minefield as is.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I apparently missed on this in Diablo II. Trading for me was simple. I even gave stuff away. All I did was contact the person, drop the item and they picked it up. I had no idea about any of this other stuff. I always thought those random people who popped up offering to sell stuff were just bots. I didn't think stuff like this actually happened. Don't people just play the game?
Oh well. As long as I don't have to do this (using real money to do anything), I'll be happy. I just want to play Diablo III.

 

[Uszi]

So just because PvP isn't the highest balancing priority we are just going to let them break it? If RMT-bought items are allowed in PvP it WILL make the game Pay2Win. The people who use real money to buy items will always have an advantage over the average legitimate player.

As far as PVP balance goes: D3 PVP is not going to be an e-sport. It's not going to be tracked or rewarded in anyway. It's purely a value added, for-fun activity, like it is in D2.

As such, I fail to see players paying money for the best PvP load-out being an issue.

You do realize this is currently the case in D2, and there are still plenty of legitimate players who manage to trade their way up to those items. I've never purchased an item from an online 3rd party store, but I have, once or twice, managed to trade a lot of good items for 1 epic item. I've never begrudged the people who spent hundreds getting all their toons pvp ready.

A point of clarification: I'm assuming you have no objection to the gold based auction house or player-to-player item based trades? These are alternative routes that will allow you to acquire the best PvP gear without paying real money. It will take you longer, but that's what capitalization is about, folks: time is money.

To wit: Because you do not have to pay to win, the system is not pay to win.

If I'm wrong and you think that gold based auction houses or trading in general is unfair, because the hardcore players who spend 12 hours a day trading will have better gear than you, then your objections have become silly. Again, D2 is a trading game. D3 will need to at least kind of be a trading game if they want the D2 players to give them more money.

How are they NOT encouraging and facilitating item/gold farming? They are giving item/gold farmers the tools and a risk-free way of performing transactions. They literally couldn't make it any easier for Asian farming companies without letting them straight out cheat.

And don't reply simply with "I disagree", if you don't give logical arguments to back up your opinion then your opinion is worth squat.

They aren't encouraging or facilitating it. All they did was stop road blocking it.

They most certainly could make it easier--just use your imagination. If blizzard really wanted to encourage Asian gold farmers, they could give bonus gold drops on the Asian servers, or they could give you bonus gold every time you make X-gold in an hour. This what the word encouraging implies.

As far as facilitating, I don't see Blizzard making it easier for gold farmers to do their thing. In fact, it seems more difficult to me. The gold farmers are unable to set their own prices or operate independently because they'll be forced to integrate into a wider system. Why would you go to a shady third party site and give strangers access to your account when you can use the much safer system that is run by Blizzard itself?

Here's an analogy, which John Funk made earlier, but I'll expand upon for clarification:

During the period of Alcohol prohibition, America spent a lot of money and resources persecuting people who manufactured illegal alcohol. During this time, there was hardly a dip in alcohol availability, and instead of the profits going to local businesses and tax revenues, they fueled a violent black market. And because the alcohol was made illegally, it wasn't controlled by safety measures like FDA controls.

Similarly, when Blizzard tried to shut gold farming down, it merely pushed the practice beyond the reach of their control, and it became less and less safe for players to purchase gold because they need to trust credit card or account information to people they can't trust.

Now, Blizzard has more say in the gold economy, like the government has more say in the sale and distribution of alcohol.

I think Al Capone might say somthing like: "Badabing, badaboom."
Or maybe not.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

No kidding. I played a fair amount of D2/LOD (and a good deal of D1+various expansions too) and there was a huge economy that all ran through e-bay.

The auction house is one of the things that worked in Hellsgate: London, and it would be nice to see something similar.

It is important to remember that WoW is competitive, at its heart. Diablo is cooperative at its heart. If you have better gear and I choose to play with you, it makes things go better for all of us.

I expect that 95% of the players will never touch the AH, but the 5% that do will be glad -- though it should be interesting.