Diablo III's Auction House

[Azure Sky]

That analogy is COMPLETELY inadequate:

1. Prohibition was bad because it caused violence; prohibition of RMT has no downside for legitimate players.

2. The drinking of alcohol has no inherent downsides aside from your health, the ABUSE of alcohol does; RMT has the inherent downside of allowing players to gain an advantage over other players without having to put any in-game effort whatsoever.

3. Alcohol has factors such as safety testing, sale to minors, etc that require regulation; RMT has no such factorsit is either legal to buy/sell or it isn't)and therefore there is nothing for Blizzard to regulate.

My question to you is:What makes you believe that this is going to remove any of the problems associated with RMT?

1: Prohibition will not stop RMT, It has taken Blizzard long enough to realize this.

2: Any player of games, particularly MMOs knows that gear =/= skill, where is the advantage?

3: If you waste your own money, it's Blizzards fault now?

Seriously though, RMT will hit DIII within it's first shelf week, AH or not.
DII is crawling with them, WoW is almost as bad, it is an unsightly plague on MMOs.
At least in this manner Blizzard is forcing the RMT to be played on their terms as well as hopefully keeping a stable market in the process.

 

[acosn]

Blizzard's just cashing in on a market they already know is going to exist whether they like it or not.

Unless you're painfully casual or the hardest core player this wont effect you in any way.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I really take offense when people say "ALL PARENTS WHO LET THEIR KIDS PLAY THESE GAMES ARE HORRIBLE". It simply isn't true.

And I didn't say it.

Its not illegal or even wrong as long as the parent knows what their doing and know their child well enough to make an informed decision.

It may not be wrong. AFAICT & IANAL, the Video Recordings act of 1984 says it is. And it's a £20,000 fine / 2 years in prison.

Not saying I agree (as I don't), but that's the legal position.

I've been at the computer a long time, so a quick reply. Headaches are a pain (literally)

Do you think that not using a RMT Auction House and allowing a 3rd party black market to creep up around the game is a better solution? Or do you think that the RMT Auction House could work if implemented better?

I think that the use of real money is a step up from Microsoft points (which are wholly underhand) but in a game like Diablo, it's a money sink.

DDO/LotRo level lock the game by providing certain areas for a price. This doesn't hinder your effort to play the game as you wish, mainly because a +5 Holy Avenger and a Heavy Ash Long Bow does exactly what it says on the tin. It Avenges or Punctures.

But say you're buying a Longtooth Helmet that gives +5 DEX, +1 to Bone Tooth and increase range by 5".

First of all, how useful is that? It's obviously a Necromancer item, but is it better than a ShortTooth which gives +5 STR, +1 to Bone Tooth and +5 ice damage.

Secondly, Diablo weapons wear out. That means you're getting poorer everytime you hit something.

Thirdly, if you buy it and it's only usable by Amazons...can you swap it to your other Amazon?

So while other RMT games give you what you pay for, this can give you more/less than you pay for. And as others have said, PvP will suffer (where CheatToWin is always the name of the game), and how about account stealing?

In WoW: the worst you can do is stick an armourless character in the middle of a war zone if you hack their account. In D3, you can hack in, sell that character and pass the money to you. And if that's a bought account, you've just provided a means for other people to steal your real-life money.

That's REALLY dangerous.

RMT houses can work, but if you've seen what happens with Eve's monocles and TF2/Portal's hats, you have to be insanely secure with even aesthetic items.

RMT works for things that are normal RMT items. If you're muddying the waters of what is real and what isn't, then you've got a shitstorm waiting to happen.

Do you want your daughter to spend $1400 on her D3 account? [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107662-Eight-Year-Old-Girl-Blows-1400-on-Smurfberries]

Even if you think she's old enough to play an M game.

 

[bakan]

snip

Seriously though, RMT will hit DIII within it's first shelf week, AH or not.
DII is crawling with them, WoW is almost as bad, it is an unsightly plague on MMOs.
At least in this manner Blizzard is forcing the RMT to be played on their terms as well as hopefully keeping a stable market in the process.

It doesn't eliminate the black market, it just gives Blizzard another opportunity to get cash because of all the fees you have at the 'official' auction house.
The only thing it does is to eliminate most of the item for item trades, as everyone will want to get a piece of the pie.

 

[fundayz]

Blizzard's just cashing in on a market they already know is going to exist whether they like it or not.

Unless you're painfully casual or the hardest core player this wont effect you in any way.

The first sentence is right on the money(pun very much intended).

The second could not be further away from the truth.

Ever heard of Lineage 2? RMT was(is?) rampant in the game and caused extreme inflation as players would buy gold, supporting gold farming which in turn causes a devaluation of the currency. Compounding this problem was the fact that these players would then used their plentiful gold to pay for items that were deliberately overpriced causing an overall increase in prices.

So what ended up happening? Almost everyone who DIDN'T buy gold was completely locked out from the economy as the normal means of gold acquisition were nowhere near the inflated prices. This affected everyone from the most casual to the hardest of the hardcore(although the hardcore were better off as they could obtain these items legitimately and then sell them for their overpriced amounts).

 

[Azure Sky]

snip

Seriously though, RMT will hit DIII within it's first shelf week, AH or not.
DII is crawling with them, WoW is almost as bad, it is an unsightly plague on MMOs.
At least in this manner Blizzard is forcing the RMT to be played on their terms as well as hopefully keeping a stable market in the process.

It doesn't eliminate the black market, it just gives Blizzard another opportunity to get cash because of all the fees you have at the 'official' auction house.
The only thing it does is to eliminate most of the item for item trades, as everyone will want to get a piece of the pie.

Nothing will kill the black market, this is what many people fail to realize.
Last I checked, the fees are fixed and minor. Probably designed to weed out worthless items and to discourage listing things at unreasonable prices.
Item for item trades in DII were mostly brought about by the lack of stable currency in the game. Duping unfortunately played a large hand in this.

 

[bakan]

snip

Seriously though, RMT will hit DIII within it's first shelf week, AH or not.
DII is crawling with them, WoW is almost as bad, it is an unsightly plague on MMOs.
At least in this manner Blizzard is forcing the RMT to be played on their terms as well as hopefully keeping a stable market in the process.

It doesn't eliminate the black market, it just gives Blizzard another opportunity to get cash because of all the fees you have at the 'official' auction house.
The only thing it does is to eliminate most of the item for item trades, as everyone will want to get a piece of the pie.

Nothing will kill the black market, this is what many people fail to realize.
Last I checked, the fees are fixed and minor. Probably designed to weed out worthless items and to discourage listing things at unreasonable prices.
Item for item trades in DII were mostly brought about by the lack of stable currency in the game. Duping unfortunately played a large hand in this.

The duping aside, do we actually need a stable currency in a game like Diablo?
In my opinion we don't need it and real life money is the last thing this game needs, it should be item driven and not backed by real currency.
We don't need an economic simulation like EVE (yeah, a bit exaggerated) in an action RPG.

And the black market wasn't that big for most players, now you have an ah for everyone and everyone will try to sell their Enigma or whatever for real money.

 

[babinro]

Fantastic!

I don't understand why they haven't implemented stuff like this in WOW. I've no plans to take advantage of this...but its something all MMO's and games of this nature should include for those who want to spend money in order to save time.

I'm sure sellers will still crop up to undercut the market prices, but at least this gives players an option without shadiness.

 

[fundayz]

1: Prohibition will not stop RMT, It has taken Blizzard long enough to realize this.

2: Any player of games, particularly MMOs knows that gear =/= skill, where is the advantage?

3: If you waste your own money, it's Blizzards fault now?

Seriously though, RMT will hit DIII within it's first shelf week, AH or not.
DII is crawling with them, WoW is almost as bad, it is an unsightly plague on MMOs.

1. Of course it won't stop it, but it DEFINITELY reduces it.

2. You are joking right? Go try to WoW PvP in a set of blues against a person in full epics and see how far you get. Gear might not equal skill but these games put A LOT of emphasis on gear, so much that it is the primary means of character progression. There is no reason to think D3 is going to be any better.

3. Did you even read what I was replying to? The person I was talking to said that Blizzard would be able to regulate RMT, and I pointed out that there is nothing to regulate.

Nobody is arguing the fact that RMT will hit D3 with auction house not, but making it illegal would definitely diminish it. Making it illegal poses a number of obstacles for a would-be gold buyer(banning risk, monetary risk, identity risk, hassle of dealing with shady sites, etc) that DOES prevent many cases of gold/item buying.

At least in this manner Blizzard is forcing the RMT to be played on their terms as well as hopefully keeping a stable market in the process.

Sorry but what terms are you talking about? The only term that Blizzard has put on this Auction House is that the seller must pay a fee. There is NOTHING stopping RMT'ers from simply moving their transcations from their own site to Blizzard's Auction house.

What makes you believe that this is going to remove any of the problems associated with RMT?

 

[Azure Sky]

Snip

The duping aside, do we actually need a stable currency in a game like Diablo?
In my opinion we don't need it and real life money is the last thing this game needs, it should be item driven and not backed by real currency.
We don't need an economic simulation like EVE (yeah, a bit exaggerated) in an action RPG.

And the black market wasn't that big for most players, now you have an ah for everyone and everyone will try to sell their Enigma or whatever for real money.

Tbh, even if Blizz doesn't set an ingame currency like gold the playerbase will naturally form one themselves. (See: Gems/Runes/SoJs) While not the most exiting idea it is still the most reliable/predictable at least. As far as RMT goes, the only reason they infest MMOs to the degree they do is because people use them. The black market affected everyone, particularly in WoW and such, devaluation of currency is horrible.

I am personally unsold on the AH concept, I see both the good and bad sides of the fine line blizz are walking with this one. It may turn out to be a perfect redesign of the Micro-trans system that cripples RMTers down to the same level of the players. Or it may crash and burn in a spectacular fashion.

It all boils down to how well the system protects the currency value.

 

[Azure Sky]

1: Prohibition will not stop RMT, It has taken Blizzard long enough to realize this.

2: Any player of games, particularly MMOs knows that gear =/= skill, where is the advantage?

3: If you waste your own money, it's Blizzards fault now?

Seriously though, RMT will hit DIII within it's first shelf week, AH or not.
DII is crawling with them, WoW is almost as bad, it is an unsightly plague on MMOs.

1. Of course it won't stop it, but it DEFINITELY reduces it.

2. You are joking right? Go try to WoW PvP in a set of blues against a person in full epics and see how far you get. Gear might not equal skill but these games put A LOT of emphasis on gear, so much that it is the primary means of character progression. There is no reason to think D3 is going to be any better.

3. Did you even read what I was replying to? The person I was talking to said that Blizzard would be able to regulate RMT, and I pointed out that there is nothing to regulate.

Nobody is arguing the fact that RMT will hit D3 with auction house not, but making it illegal would definitely diminish it. Making it illegal poses a number of obstacles for a would-be gold buyer(banning risk, monetary risk, identity risk, hassle of dealing with shady sites, etc) that DOES prevent many cases of gold/item buying.

At least in this manner Blizzard is forcing the RMT to be played on their terms as well as hopefully keeping a stable market in the process.

Sorry but what terms are you talking about? The only term that Blizzard has put on this Auction House is that the seller must pay a fee. There is NOTHING stopping RMT'ers from simply moving their transcations from their own site to Blizzard's Auction house.

What makes you believe that this is going to remove any of the problems associated with RMT?

1: Not in the slightest, you do realize that RMT is, and always has been against the WoW ToS/EULA? I unfortunately bare witness to how successful their RMT sites are every time I log in.

2: Been there, done that. Was actually quite boring. However this is coming from someone who enjoys 'ganking' people that are 5-10 levels Higher then myself.

3: Sure there is, value of currency.

It will hit, and if WoW or DII is repeated and all the RMT is external, they will once again be powerless to stop it. As for risk? If they are outside of legal jurisdiction (US for Blizzard in this case) They cannot touch them, the best they can do is ban the account, assets and all. Which is usually a minor setback at best, as they usually only catch the carrier accounts, not the storage ones. Sand on a beach.

As for how the system will deal with the RMT problems? There is only one problem with RMT (Aside from hacking, but that is another topic) Is devaluation of currency. If farming sites are forced to buy, sell and trade on the same level as every other player in the game there is a greater likelihood that the currency will retain its value. Not to mention it allows Blizz to track suspect accounts as everything is serverside.

 

[Artemis923]

Gold was never of any real worth in Diablo anyway. This isn't WoW, folks...in D2 the only real economy was in trading the items themselves. So little Timmy wants to blow his mum's cash on br00tal gear? Not my problem. It's not going to hurt me in any way because Diablo isn't about being the in the best guild, or having the best GS. It's about smashing the shit out of Hell's minions and getting rewarded for doing so.

My advice: WoW people. Stop complaining, don't by Diablo, and let the real fans enjoy the game they've waited for.

 

[fundayz]

1: Not in the slightest, you do realize that RMT is, and always has been against the WoW ToS/EULA? I unfortunately bare witness to how successful their RMT sites are every time I log in.

2: Been there, done that. Was actually quite boring. However this is coming from someone who enjoys 'ganking' people that are 5-10 levels Higher then myself.

3: Sure there is, value of currency.

It will hit, and if WoW or DII is repeated and all the RMT is external, they will once again be powerless to stop it. As for risk? If they are outside of legal jurisdiction (US for Blizzard in this case) They cannot touch them, the best they can do is ban the account, assets and all. Which is usually a minor setback at best, as they usually only catch the carrier accounts, not the storage ones. Sand on a beach.

1. You think WoW gold sellers are successful? Check out Asian MMO's if you want to see REAL, heavy duty RMT.

2. Great strawman argument. You still didn't rebut the point I was trying to make (Gear is hella important in RPG's)

3. No there isn't. Blizzard has EXPLICITLY said that they will NOT be regulating the price of gold or items. The prices of everything will be left up to the players, which includes gold/item farmers.

As for how the system will deal with the RMT problems? There is only one problem with RMT (Aside from hacking, but that is another topic) Is devaluation of currency. If farming sites are forced to buy, sell and trade on the same level as every other player in the game there is a greater likelihood that the currency will retain its value. Not to mention it allows Blizz to track suspect accounts as everything is serverside.

You clearly have not thought this through. Inflation is a SECONDARY problem that arises from the ability to buy and sell gold.

The MAIN issue with RMT(i.e. the reason why RMT is banned in the first place) is that it allows players to gain in-game benefits through out-of-game means, bypassing the game's progression and reward mechanics. This completely undermines the efforts and merits of legitimate players.

Allowing everyone to sell items and gold does not fix this. All it does is make gold/item farming a legitimate business.

P.S. Do you seriously think the average player will be able to truly compete with companies designed to make as much gold as possible and staffed by exploited 3rd world workers?

 

[Artemis923]

Gold was never of any real worth in Diablo anyway. This isn't WoW, folks...in D2 the only real economy was in trading the items themselves. So little Timmy wants to blow his mum's cash on br00tal gear? Not my problem. It's not going to hurt me in any way because Diablo isn't about being in the best guild, or having the best GS. It's about smashing the shit out of Hell's minions and getting rewarded for doing so.

My advice: WoW people. Stop complaining, don't by Diablo, and let the real fans enjoy the game they've waited for.

 

[Artemis923]

Deuce posts.

 

[Azure Sky]

1: Not in the slightest, you do realize that RMT is, and always has been against the WoW ToS/EULA? I unfortunately bare witness to how successful their RMT sites are every time I log in.

2: Been there, done that. Was actually quite boring. However this is coming from someone who enjoys 'ganking' people that are 5-10 levels Higher then myself.

3: Sure there is, value of currency.

It will hit, and if WoW or DII is repeated and all the RMT is external, they will once again be powerless to stop it. As for risk? If they are outside of legal jurisdiction (US for Blizzard in this case) They cannot touch them, the best they can do is ban the account, assets and all. Which is usually a minor setback at best, as they usually only catch the carrier accounts, not the storage ones. Sand on a beach.

1. You think WoW gold sellers are successful? Check out Asian MMO's if you want to see REAL, heavy duty RMT.

2. Great strawman argument. You still didn't rebut the point I was trying to make (Gear is hella important in RPG's)

3. No there isn't. Blizzard has EXPLICITLY said that they will NOT be regulating the price of gold or items. The prices of everything will be left up to the players, which includes gold/item farmers.

As for how the system will deal with the RMT problems? There is only one problem with RMT (Aside from hacking, but that is another topic) Is devaluation of currency. If farming sites are forced to buy, sell and trade on the same level as every other player in the game there is a greater likelihood that the currency will retain its value. Not to mention it allows Blizz to track suspect accounts as everything is serverside.

You clearly have not thought this through. Inflation is a SECONDARY problem that arises from the ability to buy and sell gold.

The MAIN issue with RMT(i.e. the reason why RMT is banned in the first place) is that it allows players to gain in-game benefits through out-of-game means, bypassing the game's progression and reward mechanics. This completely undermines the efforts and merits of legitimate players.

Allowing everyone to sell items and gold does not fix this. All it does is make gold/item farming a legitimate business.

P.S. Do you seriously think the average player will be able to truly compete with companies designed to make as much gold as possible and staffed by exploited 3rd world workers?

1: You think they would waste hundreds of manhours if it's not? They are greedy, economy ruining bastards, but they typically aren't stupid. Also, that is because wow is slightly more difficult to RMT in, as blizz are banhammer happy. Note:Slightly.

2: You had no point. Anyone can school someone with the most basic of basic pvp gear, even if they are up against the most BiS PvE gear in the game, assuming equal skill. Mainly due to the fact you cannot buy pvp gear with any cascade from RMT influences. As for D3? Blizz have already stated a SC2/WoW Laddering system for PvP, generally mooting most of the issue.

3: It seems you do not understand the basics of economics. Crash course. Games with currency, gold in the case of this example, work by the introduction (Seerops/vending/etc) and Consumption (See:Repairs/artisans/crafting/etc). What goes in, needs to come out. If the currency builds up, its value is diminished (See:RMT influx/Higher level content). The outcome is exampled by WoW perfectly. 100g was a huge deal in vanilla, pocket change in Cata, ease of acquisition in higher amounts lowers its worth.

This is where the new AH comes in, Blizz has nothing to do with this. RMT site A is forced to now buy/sell the same way as players B, C and D. We now have a situation where market is at a competitive level between all involved. To add icing to the cake, seeing as Gold and real money are essentially going to be interchangeable from the way it appears to be designed, the removal of profits from the market will theoretically keep the value of the currency (See:Gold) in a stronger position, as there will be less saturation.

To address your apparent primary problem (which is a distant second in reality).
A stable and competitive market will aid anyone to acquire items with nominal effort, unlike the unfair void of effort required in a broken (See:Standard RMT market).
If you concerns are fixated on endgame arena (If they are not then you have no argument at this point) a persons first character, even with best gear can easily be schooled by someone far worse off that knows how to play. That said, if someone has already gone through the slog of getting a top tier character, why stop them from gearing the second in an easier fashion?
People who PtW on there first run through are just hurting themself, as when they hit end they will generally be less skilled than someone who put great effort into getting there, given the PtW easy ride they had. Blizzard is not accountable for that particular aspect, as it would happen with the RMT AH or not.

^Before any jabs are made at gear being an equal tradeoff for skill, my many years in D2 taught me that even a Lv78 Bone Necro, can still be 1 shot by my Lv30 Assassin =3

Edit:Minor error, debating at 9:30 in the morning with no sleep is difficult.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Fuck. Microtransactions. In. The. Dick.

It only encourages addicted teens to bloat up the big rich and retarded corrupt corporate executives. And it does NOT solve the problem of gold farming by taking the very same road they do. That's like burning your house down to solve the problem of arsonists repeatedly trying to set it on fire.

Put more effort into banning players with names like "kuayefukasyg" because they are 100% guaranteed to be bots and anyone else who plays for more than 9 hours straight non-stop and loots meticulously and never answers whisper messages. And then start issuing IP bans on accounts banned for gold farming so they can't come back with a different serial. There, problem solved.

 

[Nurb]

"Diable 3 can't be played offline"

Welcome to subscription based single-player gaming, folks!

 

[Azure Sky]

Fuck. Microtransactions. In. The. Dick.

It only encourages addicted teens to bloat up the big rich and retarded corrupt corporate executives. And it does NOT solve the problem of gold farming by taking the very same road they do. That's like burning your house down to solve the problem of arsonists repeatedly trying to set it on fire.

Put more effort into banning players with names like "kuayefukasyg" because they are 100% guaranteed to be bots and anyone else who plays for more than 9 hours straight non-stop and loots meticulously and never answers whisper messages. And then start issuing IP bans on accounts banned for gold farming so they can't come back with a different serial. There, problem solved.

Blizzard are trying, they are still failing.
I mentioned some of their more recent, and drastic attempts to counter them earlier.
It is unfortunately, not working by the looks of things.

 

[Hammith]

So... no mods, no skill point, can only play online, and a bloated economy auction house where you can buy power for cash. Yeah, no thanks. Now what will I do for my bashy-slashy fun?

Oh, they're making a Torchlight 2? Bye Blizzard!