Diablo III's Auction House

fundayz

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Azure Sky said:
1: Not in the slightest, you do realize that RMT is, and always has been against the WoW ToS/EULA? I unfortunately bare witness to how successful their RMT sites are every time I log in.

2: Been there, done that. Was actually quite boring. However this is coming from someone who enjoys 'ganking' people that are 5-10 levels Higher then myself.

3: Sure there is, value of currency.

It will hit, and if WoW or DII is repeated and all the RMT is external, they will once again be powerless to stop it. As for risk? If they are outside of legal jurisdiction (US for Blizzard in this case) They cannot touch them, the best they can do is ban the account, assets and all. Which is usually a minor setback at best, as they usually only catch the carrier accounts, not the storage ones. Sand on a beach.
1. You think WoW gold sellers are successful? Check out Asian MMO's if you want to see REAL, heavy duty RMT.

2. Great strawman argument. You still didn't rebut the point I was trying to make (Gear is hella important in RPG's)

3. No there isn't. Blizzard has EXPLICITLY said that they will NOT be regulating the price of gold or items. The prices of everything will be left up to the players, which includes gold/item farmers.

Azure Sky said:
As for how the system will deal with the RMT problems? There is only one problem with RMT (Aside from hacking, but that is another topic) Is devaluation of currency. If farming sites are forced to buy, sell and trade on the same level as every other player in the game there is a greater likelihood that the currency will retain its value. Not to mention it allows Blizz to track suspect accounts as everything is serverside.
You clearly have not thought this through. Inflation is a SECONDARY problem that arises from the ability to buy and sell gold.

The MAIN issue with RMT(i.e. the reason why RMT is banned in the first place) is that it allows players to gain in-game benefits through out-of-game means, bypassing the game's progression and reward mechanics. This completely undermines the efforts and merits of legitimate players.

Allowing everyone to sell items and gold does not fix this. All it does is make gold/item farming a legitimate business.

P.S. Do you seriously think the average player will be able to truly compete with companies designed to make as much gold as possible and staffed by exploited 3rd world workers?
 

Artemis923

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Gold was never of any real worth in Diablo anyway. This isn't WoW, folks...in D2 the only real economy was in trading the items themselves. So little Timmy wants to blow his mum's cash on br00tal gear? Not my problem. It's not going to hurt me in any way because Diablo isn't about being in the best guild, or having the best GS. It's about smashing the shit out of Hell's minions and getting rewarded for doing so.

My advice: WoW people. Stop complaining, don't by Diablo, and let the real fans enjoy the game they've waited for.
 

Azure Sky

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fundayz said:
Azure Sky said:
1: Not in the slightest, you do realize that RMT is, and always has been against the WoW ToS/EULA? I unfortunately bare witness to how successful their RMT sites are every time I log in.

2: Been there, done that. Was actually quite boring. However this is coming from someone who enjoys 'ganking' people that are 5-10 levels Higher then myself.

3: Sure there is, value of currency.

It will hit, and if WoW or DII is repeated and all the RMT is external, they will once again be powerless to stop it. As for risk? If they are outside of legal jurisdiction (US for Blizzard in this case) They cannot touch them, the best they can do is ban the account, assets and all. Which is usually a minor setback at best, as they usually only catch the carrier accounts, not the storage ones. Sand on a beach.
1. You think WoW gold sellers are successful? Check out Asian MMO's if you want to see REAL, heavy duty RMT.

2. Great strawman argument. You still didn't rebut the point I was trying to make (Gear is hella important in RPG's)

3. No there isn't. Blizzard has EXPLICITLY said that they will NOT be regulating the price of gold or items. The prices of everything will be left up to the players, which includes gold/item farmers.

Azure Sky said:
As for how the system will deal with the RMT problems? There is only one problem with RMT (Aside from hacking, but that is another topic) Is devaluation of currency. If farming sites are forced to buy, sell and trade on the same level as every other player in the game there is a greater likelihood that the currency will retain its value. Not to mention it allows Blizz to track suspect accounts as everything is serverside.
You clearly have not thought this through. Inflation is a SECONDARY problem that arises from the ability to buy and sell gold.

The MAIN issue with RMT(i.e. the reason why RMT is banned in the first place) is that it allows players to gain in-game benefits through out-of-game means, bypassing the game's progression and reward mechanics. This completely undermines the efforts and merits of legitimate players.

Allowing everyone to sell items and gold does not fix this. All it does is make gold/item farming a legitimate business.

P.S. Do you seriously think the average player will be able to truly compete with companies designed to make as much gold as possible and staffed by exploited 3rd world workers?
1: You think they would waste hundreds of manhours if it's not? They are greedy, economy ruining bastards, but they typically aren't stupid. Also, that is because wow is slightly more difficult to RMT in, as blizz are banhammer happy. Note:Slightly.

2: You had no point. Anyone can school someone with the most basic of basic pvp gear, even if they are up against the most BiS PvE gear in the game, assuming equal skill. Mainly due to the fact you cannot buy pvp gear with any cascade from RMT influences. As for D3? Blizz have already stated a SC2/WoW Laddering system for PvP, generally mooting most of the issue.

3: It seems you do not understand the basics of economics. Crash course. Games with currency, gold in the case of this example, work by the introduction (See:Drops/vending/etc) and Consumption (See:Repairs/artisans/crafting/etc). What goes in, needs to come out. If the currency builds up, its value is diminished (See:RMT influx/Higher level content). The outcome is exampled by WoW perfectly. 100g was a huge deal in vanilla, pocket change in Cata, ease of acquisition in higher amounts lowers its worth.

This is where the new AH comes in, Blizz has nothing to do with this. RMT site A is forced to now buy/sell the same way as players B, C and D. We now have a situation where market is at a competitive level between all involved. To add icing to the cake, seeing as Gold and real money are essentially going to be interchangeable from the way it appears to be designed, the removal of profits from the market will theoretically keep the value of the currency (See:Gold) in a stronger position, as there will be less saturation.

To address your apparent primary problem (which is a distant second in reality).
A stable and competitive market will aid anyone to acquire items with nominal effort, unlike the unfair void of effort required in a broken (See:Standard RMT market).
If you concerns are fixated on endgame arena (If they are not then you have no argument at this point) a persons first character, even with best gear can easily be schooled by someone far worse off that knows how to play. That said, if someone has already gone through the slog of getting a top tier character, why stop them from gearing the second in an easier fashion?
People who PtW on there first run through are just hurting themself, as when they hit end they will generally be less skilled than someone who put great effort into getting there, given the PtW easy ride they had. Blizzard is not accountable for that particular aspect, as it would happen with the RMT AH or not.

^Before any jabs are made at gear being an equal tradeoff for skill, my many years in D2 taught me that even a Lv78 Bone Necro, can still be 1 shot by my Lv30 Assassin =3

Edit:Minor error, debating at 9:30 in the morning with no sleep is difficult.
 

Cid Silverwing

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Jul 27, 2008
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Fuck. Microtransactions. In. The. Dick.

It only encourages addicted teens to bloat up the big rich and retarded corrupt corporate executives. And it does NOT solve the problem of gold farming by taking the very same road they do. That's like burning your house down to solve the problem of arsonists repeatedly trying to set it on fire.

Put more effort into banning players with names like "kuayefukasyg" because they are 100% guaranteed to be bots and anyone else who plays for more than 9 hours straight non-stop and loots meticulously and never answers whisper messages. And then start issuing IP bans on accounts banned for gold farming so they can't come back with a different serial. There, problem solved.
 

Nurb

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Dec 9, 2008
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"Diable 3 can't be played offline"

Welcome to subscription based single-player gaming, folks!

 

Azure Sky

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Cid SilverWing said:
Fuck. Microtransactions. In. The. Dick.

It only encourages addicted teens to bloat up the big rich and retarded corrupt corporate executives. And it does NOT solve the problem of gold farming by taking the very same road they do. That's like burning your house down to solve the problem of arsonists repeatedly trying to set it on fire.

Put more effort into banning players with names like "kuayefukasyg" because they are 100% guaranteed to be bots and anyone else who plays for more than 9 hours straight non-stop and loots meticulously and never answers whisper messages. And then start issuing IP bans on accounts banned for gold farming so they can't come back with a different serial. There, problem solved.
Blizzard are trying, they are still failing.
I mentioned some of their more recent, and drastic attempts to counter them earlier.
It is unfortunately, not working by the looks of things.
 

Hammith

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Dec 26, 2008
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So... no mods, no skill point, can only play online, and a bloated economy auction house where you can buy power for cash. Yeah, no thanks. Now what will I do for my bashy-slashy fun?

Oh, they're making a Torchlight 2? Bye Blizzard!
 

Azure Sky

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Hammith said:
So... no mods, no skill point, can only play online, and a bloated economy auction house where you can buy power for cash. Yeah, no thanks. Now what will I do for my bashy-slashy fun?

Oh, they're making a Torchlight 2? Bye Blizzard!
While I liked Torchlight 1, all it really did was get me to go and play D2 again =(
 

Denamic

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Who cares?
Don't like it, don't use it.
Just play singleplayer or online co-op, like the game's supposed to be played.
Maybe even sell that Sword of Swordery that you can't use for some actual cash.
 

StrixMaxima

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babinro said:
I'm sure sellers will still crop up to undercut the market prices, but at least this gives players an option without shadiness.
There is an option without shadiness: playing the game for what it should originally be: fun.
 

Azure Sky

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Denamic said:
Who cares?
Don't like it, don't use it.
Just play singleplayer or online co-op, like the game's supposed to be played.
Maybe even sell that Sword of Swordery that you can't use for some actual cash.
This is how I see things.

StrixMaxima said:
babinro said:
I'm sure sellers will still crop up to undercut the market prices, but at least this gives players an option without shadiness.
There is an option without shadiness: playing the game for what it should originally be: fun.
"Fun" is a very loaded word in this context.

Borrowing WoW for examples again.
Some people consider raiding worth their 15$/m, while some prefer pvp.
I know some people that pay the 15$ purely for the social aspect rather than actual gameplay.
Some play purely to grief other people. (This one I find sad, but I have seen it)
And dare I say it, some people pay 15$/m to ebay the account at a later date.

All of these things can be seen as the user playing to have 'fun' =3

I myself run a Lv60 guild that explores old content, that is how I derive enjoyment out of the game. =3
 

Azure Sky

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I know this is a double post but I think it is separate enough to be valid.

Am I the only one who considers the thought of being able to get content/time for one game (See:WoW time/Blizz store items/Blizz store games) from actually playing another Blizzard game to be a rather intriguing concept?

Also anyone have any opinions/discussion points on said thought?
 

FoolKiller

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Hmm.... I read this as:

"Others have found a way to make money using the game that we didn't think of. We want to get in on that too"
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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So Diablo 3 is essentially going to adopt elements of the F2P model? Interesting. I can't say I'd ever be interested in paying real money for an in-game item, but it makes sense to try and curb some of the gold sellers by offering the services yourself. The part that concerns me though is how much 'Blizzard money' it will cost you to redeem say a month's playtime in WoW. Because if running a high level character through the D3 equivalent of the cow level a few times nets you enough profit to pay for a month in WoW, soon every WoW player will have a D3 toon to farm them their account fees. Then the question must be begged: if everyone is putting their items up on the real money auction house, surely the in game currency auction house will be rendered effectively useless, and people who don't want to part with cold hard cash will be left out. Granted, you don't NEED to buy anything in this game, as with any F2P model, but we all know the way Diablo's difficulty scaling works. You need high quality gear to remain effective at upper-Nightmare and Hell difficulties, so people who put up cash on the real AH will be able to skip a crapload of grinding time.

Edit: What the actual fuck is going on with these captcha adverts. I love how these things are supposed to cut down on 'spam' while they're now ironically spamming us with adverts...
 

Kanatatsu

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I don't think anyone really has a clue what is going to happen with this system, but I am damn curious to see the results.

Good on Blizzard for trying something different.
 

ZeoAssassin

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finally found this Funk article from a couple years back that is incredibly relevant to this.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/view-from-the-road/6330-A-View-from-the-Road-How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-the-Microtransaction

Diablo 3 is pretty much doing that exact same thing but with the players controlling the pricing and making money off it as well.
 

bakan

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Azure Sky said:
Hammith said:
So... no mods, no skill point, can only play online, and a bloated economy auction house where you can buy power for cash. Yeah, no thanks. Now what will I do for my bashy-slashy fun?

Oh, they're making a Torchlight 2? Bye Blizzard!
While I liked Torchlight 1, all it really did was get me to go and play D2 again =(
T1 had many flaws in itself, the mods you could apply made it great - harder dungeons, new classes, etc

Well, and T2 will have the things T1 had and will get multiplayer, at the moment I'm also more excited for T2 than D3
 

bader0

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well this is probably not going to affect me as i will only play this game with my friends none of whom i can see spending actual money after BUYING the game. Still i will be a little bit upset if this catches on in mmos and whatnot.
 

Abedeus

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Azure Sky said:
fundayz said:
Azure Sky said:
1: Prohibition will not stop RMT, It has taken Blizzard long enough to realize this.

2: Any player of games, particularly MMOs knows that gear =/= skill, where is the advantage?

3: If you waste your own money, it's Blizzards fault now?

Seriously though, RMT will hit DIII within it's first shelf week, AH or not.
DII is crawling with them, WoW is almost as bad, it is an unsightly plague on MMOs.
1. Of course it won't stop it, but it DEFINITELY reduces it.

2. You are joking right? Go try to WoW PvP in a set of blues against a person in full epics and see how far you get. Gear might not equal skill but these games put A LOT of emphasis on gear, so much that it is the primary means of character progression. There is no reason to think D3 is going to be any better.

3. Did you even read what I was replying to? The person I was talking to said that Blizzard would be able to regulate RMT, and I pointed out that there is nothing to regulate.

Nobody is arguing the fact that RMT will hit D3 with auction house not, but making it illegal would definitely diminish it. Making it illegal poses a number of obstacles for a would-be gold buyer(banning risk, monetary risk, identity risk, hassle of dealing with shady sites, etc) that DOES prevent many cases of gold/item buying.

Azure Sky said:
At least in this manner Blizzard is forcing the RMT to be played on their terms as well as hopefully keeping a stable market in the process.
Sorry but what terms are you talking about? The only term that Blizzard has put on this Auction House is that the seller must pay a fee. There is NOTHING stopping RMT'ers from simply moving their transcations from their own site to Blizzard's Auction house.

What makes you believe that this is going to remove any of the problems associated with RMT?
1: Not in the slightest, you do realize that RMT is, and always has been against the WoW ToS/EULA? I unfortunately bare witness to how successful their RMT sites are every time I log in.

2: Been there, done that. Was actually quite boring. However this is coming from someone who enjoys 'ganking' people that are 5-10 levels Higher then myself.

3: Sure there is, value of currency.

It will hit, and if WoW or DII is repeated and all the RMT is external, they will once again be powerless to stop it. As for risk? If they are outside of legal jurisdiction (US for Blizzard in this case) They cannot touch them, the best they can do is ban the account, assets and all. Which is usually a minor setback at best, as they usually only catch the carrier accounts, not the storage ones. Sand on a beach.

As for how the system will deal with the RMT problems? There is only one problem with RMT (Aside from hacking, but that is another topic) Is devaluation of currency. If farming sites are forced to buy, sell and trade on the same level as every other player in the game there is a greater likelihood that the currency will retain its value. Not to mention it allows Blizz to track suspect accounts as everything is serverside.
1. So don't bother tracking them down and shutting down, let's help them. And get something for ourselves.
2. Yeeaaaahhh okay.
3. No? Blizzard isn't going to do anything to AH, it's player-driven.

Okay, look at this: Gold selling companies set up bots/Chinese sweat shop workers to farm items/gold.

You find an unique, incredibly happy, go to AH, and want to get a fair price for it. You know it's a good unique, it's great item.

What do you see?

JoeyHoney1 sells it for $0.5, JoeyHoney2 sells it for $0.5, JoeyHoney3 sells it for $0.5. Hundreds of Chinese bots break down the economy.