Redryhno said:
Then explain to me what a gay character brings that an ambiguous orientation character brings to a game in terms of narrative beyond them simply being "lazy" writing.
You can replace "gay character" with "straight character" and make the exact same point.
Note that I'm not saying including gay characters is lazy, simply that in terms of writing, I find it boring and ground that's been tread far too often, especially in recent years. What does the story of a gay kid being ostracized bring that the story of say, a kid inhabited by a demon or even something as simple as just being from a family that has different values being ostracized doesn't?
Stories about people being ostracised for having "different values" are
everywhere though, look at
most Disney films.
I have only ever played a handful of games explicitly about the struggles of LGBT people and they were all obscure indie titles. Stories about demonic possession are a lot more common.
That's because white guy with brown hair can be anything without it mattering to anyone. It's because white guy with brown hair is sorta the Clint Eastwood of gaming. You can put him in any situation and nobody gives a shit about him because he's just your avatar in the gameworld the majority of the time. Sure, it's lazy here too, but it's lazy in the way that is safe, and it's simpler to have a "safe" avatar than it is to not have white dude with brown hair. Allows more space that is socially acceptable.
That's exactly the problem though and I'm not convinced that it's even true, I think publishers are just making assumptions and as a result churn out the same thing over and over again. This is exactly what the discussion is about, "safe" decisions are not interesting and end up restricting expression. The problem isn't white guys with brown hair, it's their ubiquity.
And can we stop bringing up Infinite? It's a game that IS a dudebro shooter, I don't care how often anyone tries to say it isn't.
Yes I know it is. However, it is also a first-person game focused primarily on Elizabeth. Now I love games like Doom that proudly show the protagonist kicking ass on the box art but it was clear that Irrational intended to have Bioshock Infinite go in a different direction. I think it is an awful game but nevertheless, they compromised their artistic vision to satisfy publishers and I'm not convinced that it was a necessary decision.
As for LiS, it's more one of those games that got made at the right time, Telltale hadn't gone completely off the deepend with their crap and weren't fully trying to write original stories in established settings and their engine was still being praised. And I still don't believe that piece of crap sold as much as it did. I largely consider it an exception and a perfect storm of luck more than anything.
According to the developer, publishers tried hard to get Life is Strange's female protagonist changed to a male protagonist and Square Enix were the only publisher who didn't. The quality of the game doesn't matter, the point is that it sold well and found a niche audience.
And yet again, Overwatch. Of course. The stereotype game of stereotypes. Not saying it's a bad example, just that it is ridiculously shallow to the point that the majority of the fan-art, both porn and non-porn that came out before the game launched, has become canon in some way or another. In terms of characters, the game doesn't have much depth or sense of adventure when it comes to characters. They are what they are, the rest is window-dressing in a multiplayer title.
I never suggested that it was particularly deep, I just said that the cast of characters is purposefully diverse and the response to this was very positive even if there are controversies here and there (though interestingly enough they're due to fan backlash instead of the "damn SJWs" insisting that it's offensive). In fact it's had a lot of appreciation from women and the LGBT community in a way other shooters do not, even if it only amounts to cosplaying and fanart.
I believe I covered this when I said "even when compared to non-white female characters". I know how few characters there are. I'm just saying that we need more gay villains that don't play the "I'm gay so you have to feel some manner of pity for my choices in life" card. And we need less gay heroes/randos that play the "I'm gay, therefore you need to feel sorry/admiration for me and my choices in life" card. We need more characters that aren't defined by their gayness or lack thereof. We need more non-straight characters that are actually called out on any bullshit they try to pull without it being the Evilbad McTerribad option. Hell, I'd even settle for more characters that become your best friend like Garrus and the way many JRPGs handle non-sexual relationships between members of the opposite sex.
I really don't think it's as big an issue as you think it is. The thing is, we have yet to reach a point where the stigma against LGBT people has gone away therefore it's to be expected that many depictions of LGBT people, particularly villians, would paint them sympathetically. Does it get repetitive? Sure, I think we need to get beyond this point. But you get beyond it by encouraging a greater variety of characters instead of insisting that any non-white LGBT character needs to "have a point" to justify not just replacing them with a token dudebro.
Call it hypocritical if you want when it comes to my views on the white guy with brown hair debate, but I like to think there's a difference between a texture and writing.
Well yes, as much as I bemoan the whole "brown-haired white guy" thing I know there are obvious differences between Solid Snake and Nathan Drake and Marcus Fenix etc. Actually my favourite brown-haired white male character recently was Henry from Firewatch, who is an overweight middle-aged man and there's surprisingly few of those in video games.
And that's what I'm saying as well. Don't go looking for diversity initially, just let it happen as it happens. And a request to not throw a fit if it doesn't appear is all I've ever asked for. I mean, just look at how people are now treating Cora for a fucking haircut. A haircut and general style that I still don't really get(like seriously, just cut your hair short or shave your head, quit half-assing it).
But the thing is, things don't just "happen". If you look at some of the landmark depictions of women, LGBT people, non-whites etc. they
were conscious decisions and have since paved the way for future games. Every advancement needs an initial push and there might be a backlash, but many of the most controversial decisions when it comes to characters or even gameplay and design have since influenced a ton of games.
As far as I'm concerned, let developers push for diverse characters even if it causes tension with their publishers and audiences. I like it when artists take risks and yes, not every risky decision pays off. But a lot of them do.
