Do nice guys really finish last?

[The Rogue Wolf]

So basically when I say nice guys, I mean people who talk to their GF 24/7 complementing her, treating her like a celebrity, not really knowing who their dating, they just know their dating somebody, and that's good enough for them.

And herein lies the problem. You see, there are nice guys, and then there are Nice Guys. A nice guy will hold the door for his girlfriend, randomly give her a compliment or a little gift, listen to her wants and needs, and try to include her in aspects of his life that are important and that she might enjoy as well. A Nice Guy will fawn over his girlfriend, continuously put his own wants and needs aside for her, and act more like a groveling peon towards a princess than a human being who is in love.

And, invariably, the Nice Guy becomes resentful. He thinks, "I am doing so much for her; why doesn't she adore me like I adore her?" The reason: A Nice Guy is a doormat, and it's very hard to adore a doormat. A woman is much more inclined to be attracted to a man who is living his own life, but cares enough for her to make room in it for her. (And any smart man is likely to feel the same way about a woman.)

Look at it from an average woman's point of view: If a man is so fawning, has such a low view of himself, then how can he be an equal partner in a relationship? How can he help create a thriving family, when it's likely he'll miss out on opportunities due to his low self-esteem?

Also, a side note to all those reading this who are in high school: Please realize that everyone in high school is an idiot. Yes, that includes you, your best friend, your girlfriend/boyfriend, the bullies, the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wasteoids, dweebies, dickheads- okay, you see where I'm going with this. You're all idiots. It's not your fault- high school is the absolute worst environment for normal human development. It is four years (give or take, depending on your school system) of accelerated mental and emotional learning with almost no guidance and everyone in a position of power watching you like a hawk to ensure that you follow THEIR ideals. My advice: Take whatever you can from the experience that will serve you in the future, and let the rest slide off your back. It truly is meaningless.

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

And it scares me to this day that this is what guys think.

*sigh*

People sometimes wonder why I am not interested in relationships. Because guys are controlling dickheads.

Don't think we are all like that. Some guys are, and a lot who aren't pretend to be so that they can look masculine, but we aren't all like that. Some of us really want a mutual, loving, emotional relationship.

Something you can't have in a relationship where the man is in charge? Get real.

Ah yes, the childish self-entitled attitude of the "modern" woman.

Is it really entitled to ask for a relationship based on 50/50 co-operation rather than having my life dictated?

The ironic thing here is what I'm describing is actually a 50/50 cooperative relationship. As I said earlier, it's all about gender dynamics.

You should watch the video I posted, you might actually learn something from it.

 

[Mischa87]

It's called "The nice-guy syndrome/construct" And frankly, I'm tired of seeing it.

People afflicted with this (I say people because I've seen plenty of women with a situation like this in my time) Tend to have crappy careers in comparison to how skilled they are/how hard they work. They tend to end up being in abusive relationships which they often toxify themselves. And pretty much consciously, or unconsciously sabotage every part of their lives.

I've gotten the impression from these people that they all seem to think like this: "If I can hide my flaws, and become what others want, then I will have my needs met, be loved, etc"

Now... surely I don't have to tell you how big of a crock that is, not to mention how ineffective it really is.

Nice guys/girls are painfully predictable, I've actually got fairly limited social experience myself, but I'm of the rather observant variety. So one thing I've noticed about these people is that they fundamentally have "The disease to please" and as a result of this effective selflessness, some character traits/flaws become evident.

I'm going to call em "NG" for the remainder of this post, take it as nice guy/girl.

*NGs can more often than not come off as needy and insecure.

*NGs often erupt at the most awkward times because of suppressed rage issues bubbling forth.

*NGs are likely to lie, cheat, and hide their motives as they try to get what they want in manipulative ways.

*NGs tend to be generic and predictable, hence, boring, and it's difficult to develop a "spark"

*NGs seem to ignore their own needs, and end up not taking very good care of themselves.

*NGs have a hard time being there for the people who really matter, because they expend so much time and effort into trying to please everyone.


Keep in mind, there are ways to kick this before it really starts to negatively effect your life, and the lives of those around you (Because even if you mean well, that's what you're doing) It's not noble, it's not cool, and frankly, witnessing it makes me wanna vomit.

There are roughly four steps to nipping this in the bud (And luckily for you cats, you're still really young, this is harder to do as you get older... trust me, I've been there)

Now, these might sound like they support your "They really just like jerks/bitches" idea, but that's just shifting blame away from the real cause, yourselves.

First thing, start expressing yourselves more, even if there's the chance it will upset someone (Use reason here people, everything in moderation)

Second, take more time to yourself, take care of YOUR needs, YOURSELF, don't rely on others for it, no one wants to take care of an adult baby... but also don't be afraid to make legitimate requests... moderation people.

Third, Ask for what you want, stand up for yourselves, learn to say "no" to people, don't let them walk all over you. Think of yourselves as a pencil (you all seem to be teenagers anyway, so school is either a current reality, or a recent memory) pencils can bend before they break, they will spring back though, take their shape back (Unless they're those cheap American/Chinese ones... hate those pencils, real wood please) The way you're all going, you're letting people break you, and then you're being used as drumsticks on someone's binder/books w/e... You've gotta spring back. Which comes to...

Ending abusive relationships, this isn't just the whole romantic relationship either (Even though you all seem to be fixated upon that) This kinda goes back to the whole "stand up for yourselves" bit. I've seen this so many times, and it's sad, be it a romantic relationship, just friendship, family-members, business relationships... Snap back into shape people, don't let people take advantage of you, and for that to happen, you need to stop letting them bend you over a table and having at you.

Or... if you're like me, get into BDSM, haha...

<---Sub

Naw, seriously, even then, you still need to think about your own well being.

Anyway, that's my two cents, well, maybe one of my cents, most of this is taken from memory of an article I read months ago, but I think I elaborated on it nicely.

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

Mutual cooperation? Since when? Women saying what they want is VERY different from what they actually want. It's a cute concept, and since feminism has reared it's ugly head I can see why women would say it's something they want - it just doesn't have any basis in reality.

Men are the natural leaders in relationship, and women want to be lead. What I'm saying is very basic at its core, but it's what works best and it applies to our gender dynamics perfectly.

This very advice has actually saved relationships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejSq-_NzAps

And it scares me to this day that this is what guys think.

*sigh*

People sometimes wonder why I am not interested in relationships. Because guys are controlling dickheads.

Ah yes, the childish self-entitled attitude of the "modern" woman.

Nice guys DON'T finish last in love.

When you're younger, girls tend to flock to the pricks for some reason. But as you get older, the girls tend to want partners that are more stable and stuff.

*is 23, in an almost 9 month relationship with the sweetest girl ever. Is also pretty damn nice himself*

Haha - ever heard of the phrase "Alpha fucks, beta bucks"? Because that's what you're describing. Women don't want passive nice guys because they're somehow "better", it's just that they're easier to rip off than an alpha.

What are you? Straight out of a 50's relationship advice film?

Not all women are the same, just like not all men are the same. You've either only had experience with very similar women. Or you're basing all of this on third hand information.

Of course there will always be people who deviate from the "standards", like homosexuals. But what I'm talking about is gender dynamics between men and women when it comes to relationships, something that has not changed in the last 50 years believe it or not.

The irony here is what I'm describing is actually a 50/50 cooperative relationship. As I said earlier, it's all about gender dynamics.

Having one party lead isn't exactly 50/50 you know.

We're never going to get past gender biases if you guys keep thinking that the different genders always have specific roles.

A man has his obligations in a relationship and a woman has hers. It takes two to make a relationship work. You can deny this all you want, but men are the natural leaders in relationships and women are happy to follow. It has been like this since the dawn of man.

And I hope you realize these gender "biases" have been defined by the actions of both sexes since.... Well, forever really.

 

[Zeetchmen]

To delve into the deep dark pits of the moon logic women run on, look no further than

http://www.laddertheory.com/

You're welcome.

 

[retyopy]

No. Nice guys don't finish last. Guys who act nice then demand that women do something for them finish last.

 

[Xaio30]

Nice guys dies first.
/thread.

I treat girls like I do to best friends, except we have sex.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Yeah it's true, nice guys do finish last. I'm sorry to say it, because I hate diffusing the rose tinted view that if you do nice things, you will get nice things in return... I'd gladly sacrifice myself for a world that works like that, but it just doesn't... Sure, it happens sometimes, but not ultimately.

You need to remember that there is no divide between male asshole-ism and female asshole-ism. We are just as conniving, calculating, and horrible as each other, no matter what stereotypes about men and women say.

I often play the nice guy, because i'm comfortable with doing that, my personality is very affectionate and caring, but I am fully aware that the nice guy personality will never get what he wants, and will always end up getting hurt more... I've learned it from lots of experience, and I've learned it so much, that I now fuse a cold, hard, calculating side to my good guy appearance.

Basically, I don't expect women to be faithful toward me, nor return the feeling I feel for them. It's just a sad part of life. To be honest, I think women have the upper hand with this one, as nice girls, and bad girls can finish first.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

snip

Yes, why can't we return to the good old days, where women were obsequious houswives who knew their place? Those pesky women and their need to be treated respectfully as individuals, the nerve of them!

OT: No, stop trying to perpetuate the idea that only one gender is looking for vapid, aesthetically appealing hunks of flesh. I see plenty of guys brush aside women they have a lot more in common with to guy chasing after insipid sluts. People are individuals, thus they all seek different attributes in their partner, so stop with te sweeping generalisations already. Jesus, what is it with the Escapist and gender politics?...

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

Of course there will always be people who deviate from the "standards", like homosexuals. But what I'm talking about is gender dynamics between men and women when it comes to relationships, something that has not changed in the last 50 years believe it or not.

I can absolutely say that it has been changing. Slowly, but definitely surely. The gender roles have been getting more and more flexible.

And both men and women have suffered for it ever since.

snip

Yes, why can't we return to the good old days, where women were obsequious houswives who knew their place? Those pesky women and their need to be treated respectfully as individuals, the nerve of them!

I like how you tried to paint me as a misogynist. That's really cute.

 

[FinalHeart95]

It's less "nice" guys and more "boring, passive" guys that end up not getting the girl. Sometimes little eccentricities actually help your cause a lot, just out of being something different. Think about it, do you like a food more if it's something different (assuming it's something you like), or the same thing you've eaten twenty times before?

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, "Nice" and "boring" tend to coincide. There are, obviously, exceptions to this rule. Quite a few in fact. But I'd say the people that complain about "nice guys finishing last" are in fact of the boring variety.

It also helps to not be passive, but I assume a number of people have talked about that already in this thread.

 

[Username Redacted]

Nobody male or female wants to date a doormat. Nothing whose sole purpose is to be walked all over will ever be particularly attractive. That said I don't believe a 50/50 relationship can work. Every relationship needs an alpha person to make a final decision on things. Most healthy relationships exist IMO between a 55/45 and 60/40 power split. 65/35-75/25 is where you'll find most alternate relationships and 80/20+ is where you find domestic abuse.

 

[Diablini]

I'm a 21 year old virgin who's never had any form of romantic relationship with either sex. You have no right to complain.

How is that anyone else's fault, other than yourself?

OP: No they don't. Seeing as you are a teenager (Like me ), 90% of the relationships at our age are superficial and shallow. People rarely marry their highschool sweetheart, highschool relationships are mainly for getting to know what kind of people you are into and gaining some exp. If you want real love you have to wait some time and search in the right place.