Do nice guys really finish last?

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Floppertje

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novixz said:
So basically when I say nice guys, I mean people who talk to their GF 24/7 complementing her, treating her like a celebrity, not really knowing who their dating, they just know their dating somebody, and that's good enough for them.
In that case, yeah... nice guys finish last.
Nice guys, as in... guys who are nice but also have enough self respect to not date someone for a year just to be dating, don't finish last. yeah, during the teenage years they're at a disadvantage, but once everyone grows the fuck up the ladies will realize nice guys are better than assholes.
 

Genericjim101

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Sadly immaturity does lead to either gender not really knowing what they wan tan prioritising some really strange qualities others. So expect broken hearts all around as people figure out what they want.

This is usually excitement,sex, a car or anything social status boosting until the whole need to be popular shtick wears off around the time of leaving highschool.

I at 21 find being able to cook and not into drugs, drink or partying makes me more attractive to the older crowd less so than the 16-20 that really just want a good time in what ever way they define it with little to no thought of consequences. That's a phase that disappears with age.
 

Daddy Go Bot

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EverythingIncredible said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
EverythingIncredible said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
Women do not want domesticated dogs, they want men who can take control and not *be* controlled.

They might think they want a man that they can control, but it only leaves them unhappy and more likely to cheat on you.
So they want to be domestic abuse victims...good going. :\
I like how you think men leading their relationships is a synonym for being violent. Shows just how much know you about relationships.
They want mutual cooperation, not "leadership."
Mutual cooperation? Since when? Women saying what they want is VERY different from what they actually want. It's a cute concept, and since feminism has reared its ugly head I can see why women would say it's something they want - it just doesn't have any basis in reality.

Men are the natural leaders in relationships, and women want to be lead. What I'm saying is very basic at its core, but it's what works best and it applies to our gender dynamics perfectly.

This very advice has actually saved relationships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejSq-_NzAps
 

Winthrop

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Has it occurred to anyone that "Nice girls finish last" might apply also? If the women he is dating cheat on him and leave him when any other guy comes along, they probably aren't the nicest people in the world or the best dates. What I mean by that is that of course women will go for mean men who look nice if men go for mean women who look nice. It works both ways. If you want a good relationship as a nice guy date a nice girl.

In addition, treating a girl nicely and being unreasonably clingy are different. I dated a girl once and I had my phone off for an hour, had 50 some messages from her when I turned it back on, and the "talking to her 24/7" comment brought this to mind. Granted she was pretty upset about some things but its still very excessive. That is not being nice that is just not giving her (or in this case me) any space. Please don't take offense to this as I don't actually know you or the specifics of your/your friends situations, but I see people I know make these mistakes a lot.

TLDR: Make sure you would go for a nice girl before complaining no girls go for a nice guy.
 

HardkorSB

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Socially awkward, insecure guys finish last.
If you'll give a girl too much attention and will constantly try to prove to her that you're "worthy" of her, she will see that and most likely will be put off by that.
Why idolize a girl? Most of them don't like that. They like to be treated with respect but they want to be able to respect you as well. Turning yourself into a servant makes that impossible. Confidence in who you are gets you respect. Even if she won't like the same things as you do, if you're confident enough about who you are and what you believe in, she will see that and respect that. Being overly confident isn't that good as well but it's still better than being a ***** because at least you can get a girl for a brief moment.
 

Thaluikhain

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Ah, this again.

There's quite a different between a guy who happens to be nice, and a Nice Guy.

There's a certain kind of guy that is convinced that the universe owes him an adoring woman or three because he's a Nice Guy, who will tell you at great length about how much he worships women, except any he's actually met, who are all bitches and whores because they aren't convinced by his awesome Nice Guy-ness. For some reason, these people tend to be single. Funny that.

You also get guys who are nice, because they think it's the right way to be, which isn't the same thing at all.

Being nice (or, more likely, loudly claiming to be nice) in order to impress girls...that just doesn't work, it's not what being nice is about at all.
 

FFKonoko

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Yes.
In fact, some might suggest nice guys finish after the lady has finished a couple times.

In all seriousness, Winthrop nailed the important part than many "nice guys" fail at. And in some cases, they fail at the part where they're actually nice guys. Being an entitled spoiled brat is pretty stereotypically NOT nice.
 
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Nice guys DON'T finish last in love.

When you're younger, girls tend to flock to the pricks for some reason. But as you get older, the girls tend to want partners that are more stable and stuff.

*is 23, in an almost 9 month relationship with the sweetest girl ever. Is also pretty damn nice himself*
 

Daddy Go Bot

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EverythingIncredible said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
Mutual cooperation? Since when? Women saying what they want is VERY different from what they actually want. It's a cute concept, and since feminism has reared it's ugly head I can see why women would say it's something they want - it just doesn't have any basis in reality.

Men are the natural leaders in relationship, and women want to be lead. What I'm saying is very basic at its core, but it's what works best and it applies to our gender dynamics perfectly.

This very advice has actually saved relationships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejSq-_NzAps
And it scares me to this day that this is what guys think.

*sigh*

People sometimes wonder why I am not interested in relationships. Because guys are controlling dickheads.
Ah yes, the childish self-entitled attitude of the "modern" woman.

aegix drakan said:
Nice guys DON'T finish last in love.

When you're younger, girls tend to flock to the pricks for some reason. But as you get older, the girls tend to want partners that are more stable and stuff.

*is 23, in an almost 9 month relationship with the sweetest girl ever. Is also pretty damn nice himself*
Haha - ever heard of the phrase "Alpha fucks, beta bucks"? Because that's what you're describing. Women don't want passive nice guys because they're somehow "better", it's just that they're easier to rip off than an alpha.
 

Winthrop

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EverythingIncredible said:
And it scares me to this day that this is what guys think.

*sigh*

People sometimes wonder why I am not interested in relationships. Because guys are controlling dickheads.
Don't think we are all like that. Some guys are, and a lot who aren't pretend to be so that they can look masculine, but we aren't all like that. Some of us really want a mutual, loving, emotional relationship.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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novixz said:
So basically when I say nice guys, I mean people who talk to their GF 24/7 complementing her, treating her like a celebrity, not really knowing who their dating, they just know their dating somebody, and that's good enough for them.
And herein lies the problem. You see, there are nice guys, and then there are Nice Guys. A nice guy will hold the door for his girlfriend, randomly give her a compliment or a little gift, listen to her wants and needs, and try to include her in aspects of his life that are important and that she might enjoy as well. A Nice Guy will fawn over his girlfriend, continuously put his own wants and needs aside for her, and act more like a groveling peon towards a princess than a human being who is in love.

And, invariably, the Nice Guy becomes resentful. He thinks, "I am doing so much for her; why doesn't she adore me like I adore her?" The reason: A Nice Guy is a doormat, and it's very hard to adore a doormat. A woman is much more inclined to be attracted to a man who is living his own life, but cares enough for her to make room in it for her. (And any smart man is likely to feel the same way about a woman.)

Look at it from an average woman's point of view: If a man is so fawning, has such a low view of himself, then how can he be an equal partner in a relationship? How can he help create a thriving family, when it's likely he'll miss out on opportunities due to his low self-esteem?

Also, a side note to all those reading this who are in high school: Please realize that everyone in high school is an idiot. Yes, that includes you, your best friend, your girlfriend/boyfriend, the bullies, the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wasteoids, dweebies, dickheads- okay, you see where I'm going with this. You're all idiots. It's not your fault- high school is the absolute worst environment for normal human development. It is four years (give or take, depending on your school system) of accelerated mental and emotional learning with almost no guidance and everyone in a position of power watching you like a hawk to ensure that you follow THEIR ideals. My advice: Take whatever you can from the experience that will serve you in the future, and let the rest slide off your back. It truly is meaningless.
 

Daddy Go Bot

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Winthrop said:
EverythingIncredible said:
And it scares me to this day that this is what guys think.

*sigh*

People sometimes wonder why I am not interested in relationships. Because guys are controlling dickheads.
Don't think we are all like that. Some guys are, and a lot who aren't pretend to be so that they can look masculine, but we aren't all like that. Some of us really want a mutual, loving, emotional relationship.
Something you can't have in a relationship where the man is in charge? Get real.

EverythingIncredible said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
Ah yes, the childish self-entitled attitude of the "modern" woman.
Is it really entitled to ask for a relationship based on 50/50 co-operation rather than having my life dictated?
The ironic thing here is what I'm describing is actually a 50/50 cooperative relationship. As I said earlier, it's all about gender dynamics.

You should watch the video I posted, you might actually learn something from it.
 

Mischa87

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It's called "The nice-guy syndrome/construct" And frankly, I'm tired of seeing it.

People afflicted with this (I say people because I've seen plenty of women with a situation like this in my time) Tend to have crappy careers in comparison to how skilled they are/how hard they work. They tend to end up being in abusive relationships which they often toxify themselves. And pretty much consciously, or unconsciously sabotage every part of their lives.

I've gotten the impression from these people that they all seem to think like this: "If I can hide my flaws, and become what others want, then I will have my needs met, be loved, etc"

Now... surely I don't have to tell you how big of a crock that is, not to mention how ineffective it really is.

Nice guys/girls are painfully predictable, I've actually got fairly limited social experience myself, but I'm of the rather observant variety. So one thing I've noticed about these people is that they fundamentally have "The disease to please" and as a result of this effective selflessness, some character traits/flaws become evident.

I'm going to call em "NG" for the remainder of this post, take it as nice guy/girl.

*NGs can more often than not come off as needy and insecure.

*NGs often erupt at the most awkward times because of suppressed rage issues bubbling forth.

*NGs are likely to lie, cheat, and hide their motives as they try to get what they want in manipulative ways.

*NGs tend to be generic and predictable, hence, boring, and it's difficult to develop a "spark"

*NGs seem to ignore their own needs, and end up not taking very good care of themselves.

*NGs have a hard time being there for the people who really matter, because they expend so much time and effort into trying to please everyone.


Keep in mind, there are ways to kick this before it really starts to negatively effect your life, and the lives of those around you (Because even if you mean well, that's what you're doing) It's not noble, it's not cool, and frankly, witnessing it makes me wanna vomit.

There are roughly four steps to nipping this in the bud (And luckily for you cats, you're still really young, this is harder to do as you get older... trust me, I've been there)

Now, these might sound like they support your "They really just like jerks/bitches" idea, but that's just shifting blame away from the real cause, yourselves.

First thing, start expressing yourselves more, even if there's the chance it will upset someone (Use reason here people, everything in moderation)

Second, take more time to yourself, take care of YOUR needs, YOURSELF, don't rely on others for it, no one wants to take care of an adult baby... but also don't be afraid to make legitimate requests... moderation people.

Third, Ask for what you want, stand up for yourselves, learn to say "no" to people, don't let them walk all over you. Think of yourselves as a pencil (you all seem to be teenagers anyway, so school is either a current reality, or a recent memory) pencils can bend before they break, they will spring back though, take their shape back (Unless they're those cheap American/Chinese ones... hate those pencils, real wood please) The way you're all going, you're letting people break you, and then you're being used as drumsticks on someone's binder/books w/e... You've gotta spring back. Which comes to...

Ending abusive relationships, this isn't just the whole romantic relationship either (Even though you all seem to be fixated upon that) This kinda goes back to the whole "stand up for yourselves" bit. I've seen this so many times, and it's sad, be it a romantic relationship, just friendship, family-members, business relationships... Snap back into shape people, don't let people take advantage of you, and for that to happen, you need to stop letting them bend you over a table and having at you.

Or... if you're like me, get into BDSM, haha...

<---Sub

Naw, seriously, even then, you still need to think about your own well being.

Anyway, that's my two cents, well, maybe one of my cents, most of this is taken from memory of an article I read months ago, but I think I elaborated on it nicely.
 

Daddy Go Bot

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Abandon4093 said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
EverythingIncredible said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
Mutual cooperation? Since when? Women saying what they want is VERY different from what they actually want. It's a cute concept, and since feminism has reared it's ugly head I can see why women would say it's something they want - it just doesn't have any basis in reality.

Men are the natural leaders in relationship, and women want to be lead. What I'm saying is very basic at its core, but it's what works best and it applies to our gender dynamics perfectly.

This very advice has actually saved relationships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejSq-_NzAps
And it scares me to this day that this is what guys think.

*sigh*

People sometimes wonder why I am not interested in relationships. Because guys are controlling dickheads.
Ah yes, the childish self-entitled attitude of the "modern" woman.

aegix drakan said:
Nice guys DON'T finish last in love.

When you're younger, girls tend to flock to the pricks for some reason. But as you get older, the girls tend to want partners that are more stable and stuff.

*is 23, in an almost 9 month relationship with the sweetest girl ever. Is also pretty damn nice himself*
Haha - ever heard of the phrase "Alpha fucks, beta bucks"? Because that's what you're describing. Women don't want passive nice guys because they're somehow "better", it's just that they're easier to rip off than an alpha.
What are you? Straight out of a 50's relationship advice film?

Not all women are the same, just like not all men are the same. You've either only had experience with very similar women. Or you're basing all of this on third hand information.
Of course there will always be people who deviate from the "standards", like homosexuals. But what I'm talking about is gender dynamics between men and women when it comes to relationships, something that has not changed in the last 50 years believe it or not.

EverythingIncredible said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
The irony here is what I'm describing is actually a 50/50 cooperative relationship. As I said earlier, it's all about gender dynamics.
Having one party lead isn't exactly 50/50 you know.

We're never going to get past gender biases if you guys keep thinking that the different genders always have specific roles.
A man has his obligations in a relationship and a woman has hers. It takes two to make a relationship work. You can deny this all you want, but men are the natural leaders in relationships and women are happy to follow. It has been like this since the dawn of man.

And I hope you realize these gender "biases" have been defined by the actions of both sexes since.... Well, forever really.
 

Zeetchmen

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To delve into the deep dark pits of the moon logic women run on, look no further than

http://www.laddertheory.com/

You're welcome.
 

retyopy

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No. Nice guys don't finish last. Guys who act nice then demand that women do something for them finish last.
 

Xaio30

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Nice guys dies first.
/thread.

I treat girls like I do to best friends, except we have sex.
 

Robert Ewing

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Yeah it's true, nice guys do finish last. I'm sorry to say it, because I hate diffusing the rose tinted view that if you do nice things, you will get nice things in return... I'd gladly sacrifice myself for a world that works like that, but it just doesn't... Sure, it happens sometimes, but not ultimately.

You need to remember that there is no divide between male asshole-ism and female asshole-ism. We are just as conniving, calculating, and horrible as each other, no matter what stereotypes about men and women say.

I often play the nice guy, because i'm comfortable with doing that, my personality is very affectionate and caring, but I am fully aware that the nice guy personality will never get what he wants, and will always end up getting hurt more... I've learned it from lots of experience, and I've learned it so much, that I now fuse a cold, hard, calculating side to my good guy appearance.

Basically, I don't expect women to be faithful toward me, nor return the feeling I feel for them. It's just a sad part of life. To be honest, I think women have the upper hand with this one, as nice girls, and bad girls can finish first.
 

OmniscientOstrich

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Daddy Go Bot said:
Yes, why can't we return to the good old days, where women were obsequious houswives who knew their place? Those pesky women and their need to be treated respectfully as individuals, the nerve of them!

OT: No, stop trying to perpetuate the idea that only one gender is looking for vapid, aesthetically appealing hunks of flesh. I see plenty of guys brush aside women they have a lot more in common with to guy chasing after insipid sluts. People are individuals, thus they all seek different attributes in their partner, so stop with te sweeping generalisations already. Jesus, what is it with the Escapist and gender politics?...
 

Daddy Go Bot

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EverythingIncredible said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
Of course there will always be people who deviate from the "standards", like homosexuals. But what I'm talking about is gender dynamics between men and women when it comes to relationships, something that has not changed in the last 50 years believe it or not.
I can absolutely say that it has been changing. Slowly, but definitely surely. The gender roles have been getting more and more flexible.
And both men and women have suffered for it ever since.


OmniscientOstrich said:
Daddy Go Bot said:
Yes, why can't we return to the good old days, where women were obsequious houswives who knew their place? Those pesky women and their need to be treated respectfully as individuals, the nerve of them!
I like how you tried to paint me as a misogynist. That's really cute.