Duke Nukem Forever Coming in May

[Sydust]

I guess we couldn't avoid it. Duke Nukem Forever is coming. I bet it'll do wonders for how women are treated in video games.
Am I the only one who thinks that putting out a game with so much obvious misogyny is looking back to a stereotype we're trying to escape as an industry?
Imagine if they put out a game where black people were treated as idiot servants. Why is that more taboo than putting out a game where women are feeble sex objects? They're both equally offensive! Honestly. Are we all twelve? Is treating women as inferior really the type of humor we still think is funny?
Just think about it for a minute. Imagine yourself as a woman. Now imagine that people look at you and treat you like you don't belong, like your only purpose is to be sexy and have sex.
I'm not trolling, I'm being serious. I'm so tired of this stuff. Can't we please grow up? I just want to go to a convention and not be confused with a booth babe. I just want to play in a tournament and not have my opponents mocked for being beaten by a female, or assume that it's because I'm a female the times when I lose.
Am I the only one who isn't looking forward to a game where the women are kidnapped, naked, slutty, and feeble? As a mainstream title?

Well the tone of the game plays a big part in why I don't feel it's really not offensive. Duke does respect women, he just also really likes their bodies as well. Besides, the only women you've ever seen in a Duke Nukem game are strippers, whose job is to be slutty/sexy. That's because the entire point of the game is to save the kidnapped women of Earth from a horrible fate of constant alien-based rape to produce an alien super-army. It's not that every women is weak or a slut, it's that the aliens have kind of already taken the strong and independent ones to produce the best cross-breed.

But it all plays as an over-the-top action movie. It's not meant to be taken seriously or as a statement towards a woman's role. Yes alot of the women you see will be sex appeal, but their strippers. That's their job. Besides, leaked scripts suggest Duke gets a strong female sidekick at some point. The mere fact she is able to fend off the initial raids and kidnappings by herself says a few things.

So I don't think Duke Nukem Forever is saying "All women are weak and meant for sexual pleasure". They're saying "Those alien bastards are going to pay for stealing all our strong women. Except the strippers for some odd reason". Come to think of it, how ARE the strippers still around? Did they forget to look or something?

Saying Duke respects women is like saying Hugh Hefner respects women. Seriously? When is it ever indicated that he respects women? He even says that he's mad at the aliens for taking all of the hot girls. I watched the trailer. He sees an alien with boobs and wants to have sex with it. Women = for sex in his mind.
And I bet you anything if he does get a female sidekick, she's be sporting impossible boobs, a size zero body, a no nonsense attitude, and Duke'll try to have sex with her.
There is no indication that the women in this game are anything except sex objects.
And I'm so glad that all of the potentially strong women are off world being raped. You're right. Makes it better.
No, wait. It makes it worse.
Why do there have to be strippers in the first place? Can I please play a game without having to look at naked women?

 

[Bomberman4000]

I feel like they would've been better off canceling this project all-together. There is absolutely no way after this long that the game will POSSIBLY live up to the hype that this lengthy time of development garners. I don't see this ending particularly well for anyone. And besides, what's the appeal of a Duke character anyway? He seems so one-dimentional and static to me.

I don't personally get what all the fuss is about. I promise you it'll be a generic shooter that because of character construction will feel like a mid-90's shooter.

 

[Triforceformer]

Saying Duke respects women is like saying Hugh Hefner respects women. Seriously? When is it ever indicated that he respects women? He even says that he's mad at the aliens for taking all of the hot girls. I watched the trailer. He sees an alien with boobs and wants to have sex with it. Women = for sex in his mind.
And I bet you anything if he does get a female sidekick, she's be sporting impossible boobs, a size zero body, a no nonsense attitude, and Duke'll try to have sex with her.
There is no indication that the women in this game are anything except sex objects.
And I'm so glad that all of the potentially strong women are off world being raped. You're right. Makes it better.
No, wait. It makes it worse.
Why do there have to be strippers in the first place? Can I please play a game without having to look at naked women?

Well, wouldn't you be mad if all the attractive women were taken? They were kidnapped after all, to be forced to create alien super-soldiers. I wouldn't shrug off the majority of the opposite sex being kidnapped and forced to do that. Yeah, the alien thing was kind of weird and disgusting, but the delivery just made it hilarious. I can't go into details about the sidekick because I didn't want to spoil too much for myself, but she has at most some big 'uns based off the 1998 trailer.

Then again that's 13 years old. Maybe they changed her up a bit, I don't know. Again the only women you see in the trailer are the strippers who avoided capture/abduction. Ok, yeah "Respectful" was a bad word choice. But he has never really been shown to consider women inferior, nor has he ever directly insulted any woman he's encountered in the game. Also, you're welcome with the rape thing. That's just how much worse the aliens are compared to Duke.

And there are thousands of stripper-less games in the world. Plus if this game is anything like Duke 3D, most of the strippers will be in secret "Safe areas". And even then, you don't really have to look at them. I know I won't. 3D virtual boobs are kind of a turn off for me.

But I do see what you're saying, but aside from free coverage on Fox News, I doubt anything too bad will happen. Duke's Duke, Duke has strippers. Duke likes sex. But sex isn't going to be the majority of the game, mind. Most of it will be fighting off the invading aliens who are trying to destroy the Earth and conquer the Universe. The strippers/strip clubs are just an aside to have a little down time if you feel like it.

That and things like fully interactive pinball machines and other such novelties will be there for those who don't want to see virtual jugs when they aren't seeing alien gibs flying everywhere.

 

[Sydust]

Saying Duke respects women is like saying Hugh Hefner respects women. Seriously? When is it ever indicated that he respects women? He even says that he's mad at the aliens for taking all of the hot girls. I watched the trailer. He sees an alien with boobs and wants to have sex with it. Women = for sex in his mind.
And I bet you anything if he does get a female sidekick, she's be sporting impossible boobs, a size zero body, a no nonsense attitude, and Duke'll try to have sex with her.
There is no indication that the women in this game are anything except sex objects.
And I'm so glad that all of the potentially strong women are off world being raped. You're right. Makes it better.
No, wait. It makes it worse.
Why do there have to be strippers in the first place? Can I please play a game without having to look at naked women?

Well, wouldn't you be mad if all the attractive women were taken? They were kidnapped after all, to be forced to create alien super-soldiers. I wouldn't shrug off the majority of the opposite sex being kidnapped and forced to do that. Yeah, the alien thing was kind of weird and disgusting, but yet a bit funny as well. I can't really go into details about the sidekick, because I didn't want to spoil too much, but she has at most some big 'uns based off th 1998 trailer.

Then again that's 13 years old. Maybe they changed her up a bit, I don't know. Again the only women you see in the trailer are the strippers who avoided capture/abduction. Ok, yeah "Respectful" was a bad word choice. But he has never really been shown to consider women inferior, nor has he ever directly insulted any woman he's encountered in the game. Also, you're welcome with the rape thing. That's just how much worse the aliens are compared to Duke.

And there are thousands of stripper-less games in the world. Plus if this game is anything like Duke 3D, most of the strippers will be in secret "Safe areas". And even then, you don't really have to look at them. I know I won't. 3D virtual boobs are kind of a turn off for me.

But I do see what you're saying, but aside from free coverage on Fox News, I doubt anything too bad will happen. Duke's Duke, Duke has strippers. Duke likes sex. But sex isn't going to be the majority of the game, mind. Most of it will be fighting off the invading aliens who are trying to destroy the Earth and conquer the Universe. The strippers/strip clubs are just an aside to have a little down time if you feel like it.

That and things like fully interactive pinball machines and other such novelties will be there for those who don't want to see virtual jugs when they aren't seeing alien gibs flying everywhere.

Rape is a delicate subject that we've struggled to as a society to write about and comprehend. A plot point in a game about boobs and poop humor isn't the right forum to use it. I don't care which women are taken to be raped, there's still women being raped in a game that includes the ability to throw around feces. The only game I have ever seen to approach this topic with any grace is Dragon Age. Rape shouldn't be the casual motivator in an intentionally throw away plot.
It's pointless to say that this game is female positive in any way. It's clearly not. Let's not fool ourselves. And I seriously doubt that in a game with that much nudity and sexual content in the trailers, we'll be able to avoid it in game.
I totally agree that there are games without nudity and strippers, though. I avoid games that feel the need to show boobs to us. Excluding Mass Effect, of course. Strippers and skin tight suits everywhere, and I still play it. Duke? Strippers are there because someone does think pixelated breasts are sexy.

 

[Triforceformer]

Rape is a delicate subject that we've struggled to as a society to write about and comprehend. A plot point in a game about boobs and poop humor isn't the right forum to use it. I don't care which women are taken to be raped, there's still women being raped in a game that includes the ability to throw around feces. The only game I have ever seen to approach this topic with any grace is Dragon Age. Rape shouldn't be the casual motivator in an intentionally throw away plot.
It's pointless to say that this game is female positive in any way. It's clearly not. Let's not fool ourselves. And I seriously doubt that in a game with that much nudity and sexual content in the trailers, we'll be able to avoid it in game.
I totally agree that there are games without nudity and strippers, though. I avoid games that feel the need to show boobs to us. Excluding Mass Effect, of course. Strippers and skin tight suits everywhere, and I still play it. Duke? Strippers are there because someone does think pixelated breasts are sexy.

Well we don't exactly know how DNF's going to handle the whole "Raped for super-army" thing. It's been confirmed that not all of the game takes place on Earth. You never know what they can pull off regarding the reality of the aliens' scheme. But I want to make clear that the strippers aren't really what I look forward to in DNF. I look forward to the meaty SP, enjoyable multiplayer, and variety of weapons such as the Shrink Ray and Freezethrower. The strippers play a part in it, but more in the "That's pretty unexpected" way.

But really, we're different sides of the coin here. You bring attention to the unfortunate implications of some of the sexual content, but I mostly just write it off based off the game's tone. Gearbox/3D Realms aren't trying to say anything about women. They're just making a Duke Nukem game. A game where, while there is strippers and some pretty scary Fridge Horror, is mainly just kicking alien ass.

 

[Sydust]

Rape is a delicate subject that we've struggled to as a society to write about and comprehend. A plot point in a game about boobs and poop humor isn't the right forum to use it. I don't care which women are taken to be raped, there's still women being raped in a game that includes the ability to throw around feces. The only game I have ever seen to approach this topic with any grace is Dragon Age. Rape shouldn't be the casual motivator in an intentionally throw away plot.
It's pointless to say that this game is female positive in any way. It's clearly not. Let's not fool ourselves. And I seriously doubt that in a game with that much nudity and sexual content in the trailers, we'll be able to avoid it in game.
I totally agree that there are games without nudity and strippers, though. I avoid games that feel the need to show boobs to us. Excluding Mass Effect, of course. Strippers and skin tight suits everywhere, and I still play it. Duke? Strippers are there because someone does think pixelated breasts are sexy.

Well we don't exactly know how DNF's going to handle the whole "Raped for super-army" thing. It's been confirmed that not all of the game takes place on Earth. You never know what they can pull off regarding the reality of the aliens' scheme. But I want to make clear that the strippers aren't really what I look forward to in DNF. I look forward to the meaty SP, enjoyable multiplayer, and variety of weapons such as the Shrink Ray and Freezethrower. The strippers play a part in it, but more in the "That's pretty unexpected way".

But really, we're different sides of the coin here. You bring attention to the unfortunate implications of some of the sexual content, but I mostly just write it off based off the game's tone. Gearbox/3D Realms aren't trying to say anything about women. They're just making a Duke Nukem game. A game where, while there is strippers and some pretty scary Fridge Horror, is mainly just kicking alien ass.

I'm not saying that most people are looking forward to the strippers, I'm just questioning the decision to put them in in the first place. I'll bet the rest of the game is funny and fun to play, I could just do without the sexist imagery, jokes and plot. That's all. I think the game could have still stood up and been a Duke Nukem game without turning half of the population into sex things.

 

[tklivory]

I guess we couldn't avoid it. Duke Nukem Forever is coming. I bet it'll do wonders for how women are treated in video games.
Am I the only one who thinks that putting out a game with so much obvious misogyny is looking back to a stereotype we're trying to escape as an industry?
Imagine if they put out a game where black people were treated as idiot servants. Why is that more taboo than putting out a game where women are feeble sex objects? They're both equally offensive! Honestly. Are we all twelve? Is treating women as inferior really the type of humor we still think is funny?
Just think about it for a minute. Imagine yourself as a woman. Now imagine that people look at you and treat you like you don't belong, like your only purpose is to be sexy and have sex.
I'm not trolling, I'm being serious. I'm so tired of this stuff. Can't we please grow up? I just want to go to a convention and not be confused with a booth babe. I just want to play in a tournament and not have my opponents mocked for being beaten by a female, or assume that it's because I'm a female the times when I lose.
Am I the only one who isn't looking forward to a game where the women are kidnapped, naked, slutty, and feeble? As a mainstream title?

I'd rather play a game where my gender is portrayed with stereotypes at the same level as the other characters in the game (as Duke Nukem is an obvious stereotype of machismo men and the aliens are obvious stereotypes of, well, aliens) than play a game that takes one of the best women characters in the history of gaming and totally ruin any respect for her independence that I had (Metroid Other M).

[small]yeah, still grinding my teeth about that one[/small]

This game (and franchise) have always been about taking stereotypes and dialing them up to 11. And to be honest, I don't have a problem with that. I'm secure enough in my own identity and my own abilities (as a gamer and in other walks of life) that I don't even recognize my gender as a factor when interacting with others (except with my husband, of course). I work in an industry that is still almost completely male in makeup, and gaming is talked about (and, yes, indulged in) all the time. I've never felt like they treated me like 'the girl' (when I kicked their butt or when they kicked mine). I also attend one of the larger geek conventions in the US every year, and I have observed a gradual shift from exploiting sex to taking advantage of sensuality (male and female) within our nerdy/geeky hobbies and society at large. I think that, overall, this game is made in the spirit of the new 'let's have fun making fun of stereotypes' trope rather than the old 'heh heh bewbs are cool' mentality.

Is sexism a non-issue? Of course not, *but* we have reached the point where we can laugh at it (in games/movies/etc) or growl at the jerks who still honestly believe in it without getting patted on the head and told to 'just forget about it, no harm done'.

Granted, I haven't walked in your shoes. You obviously have felt the brunt of sexism, and I am sorry for that. Hopefully you will be able to continue just being yourself and dismiss the idiots who treat you that way in a manner which they deserve for their outdated thinking.

This is just my opinion, o' course. And I do live in SoCal, which I know can be a 'leeetle' different than other areas when it comes to gender differentiation issues. :S

[small]Edit:
for the record, i laughed out loud during the trailer. Did you notice the crawling text sign behind the three-bosomed alien that read 'it's time to kick some ass!'?

hee hee[/small]

 

[Shirokurou]

It's time to kick ass and play cardgames and I'm all out of ass (c) LittleKuriboh

But seriously, this trailer looks awesome. Why can't modern games emulate the "dumb fun and nonsensical awesome" of the games of the past like this more often.

 

[Desert Tiger]

I can't believe a harmless fun game has come out for the first time in years and people are writing a thesis on sexism. Who actually cares? If you don't like the game or its values, don't buy and support it. If you can't take Duke Nukem and its world for the parody that its meant to be, then it's your own problem.

 

[Sydust]

I guess we couldn't avoid it. Duke Nukem Forever is coming. I bet it'll do wonders for how women are treated in video games.
Am I the only one who thinks that putting out a game with so much obvious misogyny is looking back to a stereotype we're trying to escape as an industry?
Imagine if they put out a game where black people were treated as idiot servants. Why is that more taboo than putting out a game where women are feeble sex objects? They're both equally offensive! Honestly. Are we all twelve? Is treating women as inferior really the type of humor we still think is funny?
Just think about it for a minute. Imagine yourself as a woman. Now imagine that people look at you and treat you like you don't belong, like your only purpose is to be sexy and have sex.
I'm not trolling, I'm being serious. I'm so tired of this stuff. Can't we please grow up? I just want to go to a convention and not be confused with a booth babe. I just want to play in a tournament and not have my opponents mocked for being beaten by a female, or assume that it's because I'm a female the times when I lose.
Am I the only one who isn't looking forward to a game where the women are kidnapped, naked, slutty, and feeble? As a mainstream title?

I'd rather play a game where my gender is portrayed with stereotypes at the same level as the other characters in the game (as Duke Nukem is an obvious stereotype of machismo men and the aliens are obvious stereotypes of, well, aliens) than play a game that takes one of the best women characters in the history of gaming and totally ruin any respect for her independence that I had (Metroid Other M).

[small]yeah, still grinding my teeth about that one[/small]

This game (and franchise) have always been about taking stereotypes and dialing them up to 11. And to be honest, I don't have a problem with that. I'm secure enough in my own identity and my own abilities (as a gamer and in other walks of life) that I don't even recognize my gender as a factor when interacting with others (except with my husband, of course). I work in an industry that is still almost completely male in makeup, and gaming is talked about (and, yes, indulged in) all the time. I've never felt like they treated me like 'the girl' (when I kicked their butt or when they kicked mine). I also attend one of the larger geek conventions in the US every year, and I have observed a gradual shift from exploiting sex to taking advantage of sensuality (male and female) within our nerdy/geeky hobbies and society at large. I think that, overall, this game is made in the spirit of the new 'let's have fun making fun of stereotypes' trope rather than the old 'heh heh bewbs are cool' mentality.

Is sexism a non-issue? Of course not, *but* we have reached the point where we can laugh at it (in games/movies/etc) or growl at the jerks who still honestly believe in it without getting patted on the head and told to 'just forget about it, no harm done'.

Granted, I haven't walked in your shoes. You obviously have felt the brunt of sexism, and I am sorry for that. Hopefully you will be able to continue just being yourself and dismiss the idiots who treat you that way in a manner which they deserve for their outdated thinking.

This is just my opinion, o' course. And I do live in SoCal, which I know can be a 'leeetle' different than other areas when it comes to gender differentiation issues. :S

[small]Edit:
for the record, i laughed out loud during the trailer. Did you notice the crawling text sign behind the three-bosomed alien that read 'it's time to kick some ass!'?

hee hee[/small]

Yeah but Duke is supposed to be kick ass and amazing. He's a positive stereotype. The women are not. The female stereotype is for weakness and sex. We shouldn't have to say, "well at least it's better than some."
I don't think as an industry we've come to a place where we can joke about women yet, not when characters like Ivy Valentine and games like DOA are mainstream. Especially not in an industry where our award ceremonies are male-centric, marketing is male-centric, and there are only a few females in the public eye who don't play into a sexual fantasy as their jobs. We can't even get female protagonists from some major publishers because they refuse to give them a chance. Sexist jokes in a sexist setting isn't edgy, it's the status quo and jokes add to the sexism already happening.
Are things better in games than in the past? Yes. Look at Zoey from l4d, look at Tali in Mass Effect (on the fence about Miranda). But we aren't there yet. We need more positive before we can look at the negative as 'retro' laughs.
I'm lucky in that my encounters with sexism are limited and mostly behind the scenes. I realize that most real gamers who are into games like I am and spend the time learning about it like I do know that women play too. I still can't play multiplayer with strangers with voice though. After the millionth time, Sammich and 'tits or gtfo' jokes are still not funny.

 

[FarmerMonkey]

Rape is a delicate subject that we've struggled to as a society to write about and comprehend. A plot point in a game about boobs and poop humor isn't the right forum to use it. I don't care which women are taken to be raped, there's still women being raped in a game that includes the ability to throw around feces. The only game I have ever seen to approach this topic with any grace is Dragon Age. Rape shouldn't be the casual motivator in an intentionally throw away plot.
It's pointless to say that this game is female positive in any way. It's clearly not. Let's not fool ourselves. And I seriously doubt that in a game with that much nudity and sexual content in the trailers, we'll be able to avoid it in game.
I totally agree that there are games without nudity and strippers, though. I avoid games that feel the need to show boobs to us. Excluding Mass Effect, of course. Strippers and skin tight suits everywhere, and I still play it. Duke? Strippers are there because someone does think pixelated breasts are sexy.

Well we don't exactly know how DNF's going to handle the whole "Raped for super-army" thing. It's been confirmed that not all of the game takes place on Earth. You never know what they can pull off regarding the reality of the aliens' scheme. But I want to make clear that the strippers aren't really what I look forward to in DNF. I look forward to the meaty SP, enjoyable multiplayer, and variety of weapons such as the Shrink Ray and Freezethrower. The strippers play a part in it, but more in the "That's pretty unexpected way".

But really, we're different sides of the coin here. You bring attention to the unfortunate implications of some of the sexual content, but I mostly just write it off based off the game's tone. Gearbox/3D Realms aren't trying to say anything about women. They're just making a Duke Nukem game. A game where, while there is strippers and some pretty scary Fridge Horror, is mainly just kicking alien ass.

I'm not saying that most people are looking forward to the strippers, I'm just questioning the decision to put them in in the first place. I'll bet the rest of the game is funny and fun to play, I could just do without the sexist imagery, jokes and plot. That's all. I think the game could have still stood up and been a Duke Nukem game without turning half of the population into sex things.

Sadly for trailblazing female gamers, I think Gearbox probably made the financial decision that they can afford to alienate female gamers with the game. Having no statistics in front of me, I can't say it authoritatively, but I'm guessing that 90%+ FPS buyers are 14-35 year-old men. The "id" in young men seems to crave violence and sex, and DNF caters to these fantasies in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

On the other hand, I think there's also some validity to the argument that Duke himself is just as much a caricature as the helpless, sex-crazed females. If this were a sincere portrayal of what a man "should be", yeah that'd be offensive/immoral. I'm a husband and father. I'll probably buy this game, and I'll laugh at Duke, but I won't raise my son to be like Duke. It's funny because it's so over the top. "Blazing Saddles", Dave Chapelle, any of Sasha Baron Cohen's alter egos--all crude, racially-charged, etc...but certainly their characters are NOT intended as role models, and are all hysterical if you ask me. It's all in your perspective/sense of humor, I guess.

Like the post's author, however, I hope that there's some substance to go along with the crude jokes. A 10-20 hour dick joke would be very disappointing for a guy who considers DN3D to be a crux of my wasted PC gaming youth. So much has happened to FPS's since DN3D's simple shrink ray puzzles and crawling through vents. FPS's have done fully destructible environments, teleportation, physics-based puzzles and weapons, ability to walk on walls/ceilings, bending time, genuinely fun vehicle sections, elaborate dismemberment of enemies, etc...what, apart from tone, will make DNF stand out in a crowded genre? I didn't see much in the trailer.

 

[Sydust]

Rape is a delicate subject that we've struggled to as a society to write about and comprehend. A plot point in a game about boobs and poop humor isn't the right forum to use it. I don't care which women are taken to be raped, there's still women being raped in a game that includes the ability to throw around feces. The only game I have ever seen to approach this topic with any grace is Dragon Age. Rape shouldn't be the casual motivator in an intentionally throw away plot.
It's pointless to say that this game is female positive in any way. It's clearly not. Let's not fool ourselves. And I seriously doubt that in a game with that much nudity and sexual content in the trailers, we'll be able to avoid it in game.
I totally agree that there are games without nudity and strippers, though. I avoid games that feel the need to show boobs to us. Excluding Mass Effect, of course. Strippers and skin tight suits everywhere, and I still play it. Duke? Strippers are there because someone does think pixelated breasts are sexy.

Well we don't exactly know how DNF's going to handle the whole "Raped for super-army" thing. It's been confirmed that not all of the game takes place on Earth. You never know what they can pull off regarding the reality of the aliens' scheme. But I want to make clear that the strippers aren't really what I look forward to in DNF. I look forward to the meaty SP, enjoyable multiplayer, and variety of weapons such as the Shrink Ray and Freezethrower. The strippers play a part in it, but more in the "That's pretty unexpected way".

But really, we're different sides of the coin here. You bring attention to the unfortunate implications of some of the sexual content, but I mostly just write it off based off the game's tone. Gearbox/3D Realms aren't trying to say anything about women. They're just making a Duke Nukem game. A game where, while there is strippers and some pretty scary Fridge Horror, is mainly just kicking alien ass.

I'm not saying that most people are looking forward to the strippers, I'm just questioning the decision to put them in in the first place. I'll bet the rest of the game is funny and fun to play, I could just do without the sexist imagery, jokes and plot. That's all. I think the game could have still stood up and been a Duke Nukem game without turning half of the population into sex things.

Sadly for trailblazing female gamers, I think Gearbox probably made the financial decision that they can afford to alienate female gamers with the game. Having no statistics in front of me, I can't say it authoritatively, but I'm guessing that 90%+ FPS buyers are 14-35 year-old men. The "id" in young men seems to crave violence and sex, and DNF caters to these fantasies in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

On the other hand, I think there's also some validity to the argument that Duke himself is just as much a caricature as the helpless, sex-crazed females. If this were a sincere portrayal of what a man "should be", yeah that'd be offensive/immoral. I'm a husband and father. I'll probably buy this game, and I'll laugh at Duke, but I won't raise my son to be like Duke. It's funny because it's so over the top. "Blazing Saddles", Dave Chapelle, any of Sasha Baron Cohen's alter egos--all crude, racially-charged, etc...but certainly their characters are NOT intended as role models, and are all hysterical if you ask me. It's all in your perspective/sense of humor, I guess.

Like the post's author, however, I hope that there's some substance to go along with the crude jokes. A 10-20 hour dick joke would be very disappointing for a guy who considers DN3D to be a crux of my wasted PC gaming youth. So much has happened to FPS's since DN3D's simple shrink ray puzzles and crawling through vents. FPS's have done fully destructible environments, teleportation, physics-based puzzles and weapons, ability to walk on walls/ceilings, bending time, genuinely fun vehicle sections, elaborate dismemberment of enemies, etc...what, apart from tone, will make DNF stand out in a crowded genre? I didn't see much in the trailer.

I see your point. It is to some degree an offensive stereotype of men. But the stereotype is still positive and active, and in society, men aren't actually seen as all uberviolent roid maniacs, whereas women are still expected to be attractive and in some minds, are there only for sex. The roid characters are not supposed to be role models in their entirety They're supposed to the manly and awesome. Not someone we would actually want to be, but someone we can project into. You also have to realize that these women are all in the servile role. They are put there to be ogled. Duke is a hero. There is zero positive about the women in this game. I totally get that it's over the top. Anyone who has seen the trailer knows that it's an ode to the immature and absurd. It's just that the humor of the part of the female is that they have boobs, dress slutty, and make out.
I seriously doubt 90% of fps players are male. 40% of all gamers are female, and the idea that so little of that amount plays fps is mind boggling. Pulling the statistic out of thin air to fit who you think plays your games doesn't help you. Most females I know play single player fps and avoid multiplayer. When they do play multi, they mute the mic because of harassment. It creates an appearance of a lack of female online presence in gaming. They keep marketing to males, and it creates a boy's club where women are forced to hide themselves. It's a cycle that can only be broken by the developers growing up. I myself never play multi w strangers, but I do play fps a lot. All of my female friends do. 10% is an insulting figure. It's that attitude that has people thinking I'm trying to get guys when I mention my love for Borderlands.

 

[FarmerMonkey]

Rape is a delicate subject that we've struggled to as a society to write about and comprehend. A plot point in a game about boobs and poop humor isn't the right forum to use it. I don't care which women are taken to be raped, there's still women being raped in a game that includes the ability to throw around feces. The only game I have ever seen to approach this topic with any grace is Dragon Age. Rape shouldn't be the casual motivator in an intentionally throw away plot.
It's pointless to say that this game is female positive in any way. It's clearly not. Let's not fool ourselves. And I seriously doubt that in a game with that much nudity and sexual content in the trailers, we'll be able to avoid it in game.
I totally agree that there are games without nudity and strippers, though. I avoid games that feel the need to show boobs to us. Excluding Mass Effect, of course. Strippers and skin tight suits everywhere, and I still play it. Duke? Strippers are there because someone does think pixelated breasts are sexy.

Well we don't exactly know how DNF's going to handle the whole "Raped for super-army" thing. It's been confirmed that not all of the game takes place on Earth. You never know what they can pull off regarding the reality of the aliens' scheme. But I want to make clear that the strippers aren't really what I look forward to in DNF. I look forward to the meaty SP, enjoyable multiplayer, and variety of weapons such as the Shrink Ray and Freezethrower. The strippers play a part in it, but more in the "That's pretty unexpected way".

But really, we're different sides of the coin here. You bring attention to the unfortunate implications of some of the sexual content, but I mostly just write it off based off the game's tone. Gearbox/3D Realms aren't trying to say anything about women. They're just making a Duke Nukem game. A game where, while there is strippers and some pretty scary Fridge Horror, is mainly just kicking alien ass.

I'm not saying that most people are looking forward to the strippers, I'm just questioning the decision to put them in in the first place. I'll bet the rest of the game is funny and fun to play, I could just do without the sexist imagery, jokes and plot. That's all. I think the game could have still stood up and been a Duke Nukem game without turning half of the population into sex things.

Sadly for trailblazing female gamers, I think Gearbox probably made the financial decision that they can afford to alienate female gamers with the game. Having no statistics in front of me, I can't say it authoritatively, but I'm guessing that 90%+ FPS buyers are 14-35 year-old men. The "id" in young men seems to crave violence and sex, and DNF caters to these fantasies in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

On the other hand, I think there's also some validity to the argument that Duke himself is just as much a caricature as the helpless, sex-crazed females. If this were a sincere portrayal of what a man "should be", yeah that'd be offensive/immoral. I'm a husband and father. I'll probably buy this game, and I'll laugh at Duke, but I won't raise my son to be like Duke. It's funny because it's so over the top. "Blazing Saddles", Dave Chapelle, any of Sasha Baron Cohen's alter egos--all crude, racially-charged, etc...but certainly their characters are NOT intended as role models, and are all hysterical if you ask me. It's all in your perspective/sense of humor, I guess.

Like the post's author, however, I hope that there's some substance to go along with the crude jokes. A 10-20 hour dick joke would be very disappointing for a guy who considers DN3D to be a crux of my wasted PC gaming youth. So much has happened to FPS's since DN3D's simple shrink ray puzzles and crawling through vents. FPS's have done fully destructible environments, teleportation, physics-based puzzles and weapons, ability to walk on walls/ceilings, bending time, genuinely fun vehicle sections, elaborate dismemberment of enemies, etc...what, apart from tone, will make DNF stand out in a crowded genre? I didn't see much in the trailer.

I see your point. It is to some degree an offensive stereotype of men. But the stereotype is still positive and active, and in society, men aren't actually seen as all uberviolent roid maniacs, whereas women are still expected to be attractive and in some minds, are there only for sex. The roid characters are not supposed to be role models in their entirety They're supposed to the manly and awesome. Not someone we would actually want to be, but someone we can project into. You also have to realize that these women are all in the servile role. They are put there to be ogled. Duke is a hero. There is zero positive about the women in this game. I totally get that it's over the top. Anyone who has seen the trailer knows that it's an ode to the immature and absurd. It's just that the humor of the part of the female is that they have boobs, dress slutty, and make out.
I seriously doubt 90% of fps players are male. 40% of all gamers are female, and the idea that so little of that amount plays fps is mind boggling. Pulling the statistic out of thin air to fit who you think plays your games doesn't help you. Most females I know play single player fps and avoid multiplayer. When they do play multi, they mute the mic because of harassment. It creates an appearance of a lack of female online presence in gaming. They keep marketing to males, and it creates a boy's club where women are forced to hide themselves. It's a cycle that can only be broken by the developers growing up. I myself never play multi w strangers, but I do play fps a lot. All of my female friends do. 10% is an insulting figure. It's that attitude that has people thinking I'm trying to get guys when I mention my love for Borderlands.

Personally, I'd love it if 30-40% of FPS players were female. I've long since given up on anything but couch co-op or deathmatches, because I don't want to spend my limited gaming time with the rabid apes that inhabit those environments. I think if the percentage was that high, maybe the average multiplayer gamer would act like less of an asshole, because he'd get a lot more negative reinforcement from the community (hopefully you'll not be offended by the positive stereotype that young women tend to intellectually mature faster than their counterparts). My uneducated guess (apologies for being insulting) was partially colored by the fact that I'm pushing 30 and of all my female friends and family, none play video games outside of the Wii, DS, iPhone, or Facebook. Perhaps they're a poor sample to generalize on. I find your information encouraging. Maybe it's time I read up on the subject.

I think you should be a little more optimistic about society's opinion of women. Sitcoms tend to portray the modern wife as almost a heroic icon, what with the modern father being an overweight buffoon, swilling beer and trying relentlessly to dodge his responsibilities. Hilary Clinton came very close to being the first female president, and certainly didn't come as far as she did based upon her male supporters' sexual fantasies. More women are graduating with degrees in math and science. Video games will come around, too. I gather Square is rebooting Laura Croft (the quintessential sex symbol of the medium) into a more thoughtful character with more realistic (athletic) body proportions. Who would have thought it.

For the time being, though, you're right about the "boy's club". It's too bad. Hope you and your friends keep soldiering on.

Anyway, this got way off topic. A genuine pleasure discussing with you and having my opinion/beliefs challenged. Hope you'll not think me too much of a cretin for still buying and enjoying Duke. I promise if I should run into you online, I'd never never demand prepared food, or suggest you be "barefoot and pregnant". I may zap you with a shrink ray and curb stomp you, however. ;-)

 

[Triforceformer]

I may zap you with a shrink ray and curb stomp you, however. ;-)

I'm more of a shooting gallery man, myself. Shrink you down, then blast you with a shotgun like the duck you are.

 

[Sydust]

Rape is a delicate subject that we've struggled to as a society to write about and comprehend. A plot point in a game about boobs and poop humor isn't the right forum to use it. I don't care which women are taken to be raped, there's still women being raped in a game that includes the ability to throw around feces. The only game I have ever seen to approach this topic with any grace is Dragon Age. Rape shouldn't be the casual motivator in an intentionally throw away plot.
It's pointless to say that this game is female positive in any way. It's clearly not. Let's not fool ourselves. And I seriously doubt that in a game with that much nudity and sexual content in the trailers, we'll be able to avoid it in game.
I totally agree that there are games without nudity and strippers, though. I avoid games that feel the need to show boobs to us. Excluding Mass Effect, of course. Strippers and skin tight suits everywhere, and I still play it. Duke? Strippers are there because someone does think pixelated breasts are sexy.

Well we don't exactly know how DNF's going to handle the whole "Raped for super-army" thing. It's been confirmed that not all of the game takes place on Earth. You never know what they can pull off regarding the reality of the aliens' scheme. But I want to make clear that the strippers aren't really what I look forward to in DNF. I look forward to the meaty SP, enjoyable multiplayer, and variety of weapons such as the Shrink Ray and Freezethrower. The strippers play a part in it, but more in the "That's pretty unexpected way".

But really, we're different sides of the coin here. You bring attention to the unfortunate implications of some of the sexual content, but I mostly just write it off based off the game's tone. Gearbox/3D Realms aren't trying to say anything about women. They're just making a Duke Nukem game. A game where, while there is strippers and some pretty scary Fridge Horror, is mainly just kicking alien ass.

I'm not saying that most people are looking forward to the strippers, I'm just questioning the decision to put them in in the first place. I'll bet the rest of the game is funny and fun to play, I could just do without the sexist imagery, jokes and plot. That's all. I think the game could have still stood up and been a Duke Nukem game without turning half of the population into sex things.

Sadly for trailblazing female gamers, I think Gearbox probably made the financial decision that they can afford to alienate female gamers with the game. Having no statistics in front of me, I can't say it authoritatively, but I'm guessing that 90%+ FPS buyers are 14-35 year-old men. The "id" in young men seems to crave violence and sex, and DNF caters to these fantasies in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

On the other hand, I think there's also some validity to the argument that Duke himself is just as much a caricature as the helpless, sex-crazed females. If this were a sincere portrayal of what a man "should be", yeah that'd be offensive/immoral. I'm a husband and father. I'll probably buy this game, and I'll laugh at Duke, but I won't raise my son to be like Duke. It's funny because it's so over the top. "Blazing Saddles", Dave Chapelle, any of Sasha Baron Cohen's alter egos--all crude, racially-charged, etc...but certainly their characters are NOT intended as role models, and are all hysterical if you ask me. It's all in your perspective/sense of humor, I guess.

Like the post's author, however, I hope that there's some substance to go along with the crude jokes. A 10-20 hour dick joke would be very disappointing for a guy who considers DN3D to be a crux of my wasted PC gaming youth. So much has happened to FPS's since DN3D's simple shrink ray puzzles and crawling through vents. FPS's have done fully destructible environments, teleportation, physics-based puzzles and weapons, ability to walk on walls/ceilings, bending time, genuinely fun vehicle sections, elaborate dismemberment of enemies, etc...what, apart from tone, will make DNF stand out in a crowded genre? I didn't see much in the trailer.

I see your point. It is to some degree an offensive stereotype of men. But the stereotype is still positive and active, and in society, men aren't actually seen as all uberviolent roid maniacs, whereas women are still expected to be attractive and in some minds, are there only for sex. The roid characters are not supposed to be role models in their entirety They're supposed to the manly and awesome. Not someone we would actually want to be, but someone we can project into. You also have to realize that these women are all in the servile role. They are put there to be ogled. Duke is a hero. There is zero positive about the women in this game. I totally get that it's over the top. Anyone who has seen the trailer knows that it's an ode to the immature and absurd. It's just that the humor of the part of the female is that they have boobs, dress slutty, and make out.
I seriously doubt 90% of fps players are male. 40% of all gamers are female, and the idea that so little of that amount plays fps is mind boggling. Pulling the statistic out of thin air to fit who you think plays your games doesn't help you. Most females I know play single player fps and avoid multiplayer. When they do play multi, they mute the mic because of harassment. It creates an appearance of a lack of female online presence in gaming. They keep marketing to males, and it creates a boy's club where women are forced to hide themselves. It's a cycle that can only be broken by the developers growing up. I myself never play multi w strangers, but I do play fps a lot. All of my female friends do. 10% is an insulting figure. It's that attitude that has people thinking I'm trying to get guys when I mention my love for Borderlands.

Personally, I'd love it if 30-40% of FPS players were female. I've long since given up on anything but couch co-op or deathmatches, because I don't want to spend my limited gaming time with the rabid apes that inhabit those environments. I think if the percentage was that high, maybe the average multiplayer gamer would act like less of an asshole, because he'd get a lot more negative reinforcement from the community (hopefully you'll not be offended by the positive stereotype that young women tend to intellectually mature faster than their counterparts). My uneducated guess (apologies for being insulting) was partially colored by the fact that I'm pushing 30 and of all my female friends and family, none play video games outside of the Wii, DS, iPhone, or Facebook. Perhaps they're a poor sample to generalize on. I find your information encouraging. Maybe it's time I read up on the subject.

I think you should be a little more optimistic about society's opinion of women. Sitcoms tend to portray the modern wife as almost a heroic icon, what with the modern father being an overweight buffoon, swilling beer and trying relentlessly to dodge his responsibilities. Hilary Clinton came very close to being the first female president, and certainly didn't come as far as she did based upon her male supporters' sexual fantasies. More women are graduating with degrees in math and science. Video games will come around, too. I gather Square is rebooting Laura Croft (the quintessential sex symbol of the medium) into a more thoughtful character with more realistic (athletic) body proportions. Who would have thought it.

For the time being, though, you're right about the "boy's club". It's too bad. Hope you and your friends keep soldiering on.

Anyway, this got way off topic. A genuine pleasure discussing with you and having my opinion/beliefs challenged. Hope you'll not think me too much of a cretin for still buying and enjoying Duke. I promise if I should run into you online, I'd never never demand prepared food, or suggest you be "barefoot and pregnant". I may zap you with a shrink ray and curb stomp you, however. ;-)

You have been a delight as well. I really don't think poorly of you, I just think you haven't met enough female gamers. Just like most of the guys I know aren't gamers, the majority of females I know aren't. It's when you find females who are gamers that you find what they are playing. I may be a bit biased because I make friends with female gamers, but of all of the female gamers I know, only one doesn't play fps a lot. It's marketing. I myself don't know the percentage, but I know it could be higher if they stopped pandering to men. A customizable character or choice of character game where I can't be a female doesn't really appeal to me as much as one where I can be one. For all I know the fps number could be 10%, though that seems very unlikely to me. The numbers haven't been done that i know of. I think the lowest would be 20%. But I too am pulling numbers out of thin air. It's hard to gauge. I do know it could be higher if the producers cared about us.
I think we really are coming along as a society in how we portray women, games are just a bit slower, and games like this pushes us even further backwards. If most games portrayed women as equal humans with real proportions, and half of games had female protagonists, this would be a retro, over the top throw back. Because of how women have been portrayed in games with few exceptions, this isn't really okay. I am so looking forward to the new Laura Croft. It always boggled my mind how she went climbing like that exposed to so much injury in those outfits. She also no longer looks like an alien. It's definitely a step in the right direction. But we're not there yet.
I won't begrudge you your Duke fun. I hope it's great and you get your money's worth. Really. It just won't be a purchase for myself personally because I'd be too distracted by pixelated boobs. If you can get past it, great. I'm not judging you or most people who play the game. I am judging the perverts (jk ). I'm going to stick to l4d and borderlands. Zoey is amazing <3
If I ever do encounter you online, I have no doubt you'll kill me just as violently as any other even if I did use mic without the kitchen jokes. We need more people to cut out the sammich and tits or gtfo jokes (really? people still think that's clever?) and maybe one day I'll be brave enough to switch it on.
I wish you and your son well! My own father introduced me to gaming, and it draws us closer playing together. It's an amazing generational gap, though I still roll my eyes at his fondness for atari games.

 

[A Pious Cultist]

Why do the "sexy schoolgirls" look so bad. Every time they show up in the trailers I can't help but think they should be in a Playstation 2 game. I suppose that's what 14 years gets you though.

 

[Triforceformer]

Why do the "sexy schoolgirls" look so bad. Every time they show up in the trailers I can't help but think they should be in a Playstation 2 game. I suppose that's what 14 years gets you though.

Maybe they are ROBOTS! Robots that know how to do a good BJ, but still.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

Meh

Yep, I said it: "Meh"

I'm not even going to buy this game. I don't care any more. Even if it does come out on time or at all for that matter. Nostalgia aside Duke Nukem isn't really that big of a deal any more.

Besides, we all know it's not coming out. We've been through this before.

I'll belive it's coming out when I see a real, physical copy that I can play inside the machine of someone I know, and I'm watching them play it. Until then, it's vaporware.

 

[Elexia]

I am thoroughly amused by the whole 'making a big issue out of the rape' thing. Hey, I'm a female, I've come from abusive relationships and survived. But I freaking love Duke Nukem. Why? Because it isn't real. It's a game. I don't take it seriously nor do I take it personally. I played Duke 3D when I was a kid and loved it.

It's about role-playing, being someone else and in an FPS, it usually means you're a muscle-bound hedonist and that's cool with me. People who take games seriously and bring up issues of female subjectivity should play Trivial Pursuit or something and let me blow up aliens.

 

[Triforceformer]

I am thoroughly amused by the whole 'making a big issue out of the rape' thing. Hey, I'm a female, I've come from abusive relationships and survived. But I freaking love Duke Nukem. Why? Because it isn't real. It's a game. I don't take it seriously nor do I take it personally. I played Duke 3D when I was a kid and loved it.

It's about role-playing, being someone else and in an FPS, it usually means you're a muscle-bound hedonist and that's cool with me. People who take games seriously and bring up issues of female subjectivity should play Trivial Pursuit or something and let me blow up aliens.

Yeah, but you can sort of understand why she was so...I guess "Debative" is the word. Yeah it's not real, but the "Raped 4 super-army" thing is pretty unsettling when you think about it.

Then I go back to making moar gibbs and everything is happy again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhcvHbQJHjY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

MORE GIBBS MAN!