Duke Nukem Forever Multiplayer Exchanges Flags for "Babes"

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

I would so love if the actual release version of Duke Nukem turned out kinda like Yahtzee said and had some sort of deep involving personal campaign where it showed exactly why Duke Nukem was such a misogynist, and delved deeply into a troubled family history etc.

I know it won't, but it would be the greatest gag ever.

Someone once told me that Captcha can apparently be fooled if you only type in the word which is a real word. This doesn't help when not only only are neither of the words real words, but both of them utilise characters from the Arabic alphabet. FUCK CAPTCHA

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

There is no such thing as going too far.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Wait people think that the game developers are stooping this low to generate controversy?

I thought Duke was ALWAYS about this sort of stuff 0.o

It was. And it sounds pretty damn hilarious. People who whine about this shit just don't understand the concept of satire.

There is a quote by Roger Ebert that has relevance here:

"I may disapprove of a movie for going too far, and yet have a sneaky regard for a movie that goes much, much farther than merely too far."

This game mode isn't simply offensive, it is so offensive it becomes inoffensive and to some folk, flat out funny. Kind of like Bayonetta actually, one my favourite games. I look forward to partying with the Duke and his posse in the multiplayer.

 

[ShadowKirby]

I get it's all a big joke, but even I think "reassuring slap" is going too far

Why? ANSWER ME!
How is this going too far? It's a game.
Duke's model will slap the babe's model, probably followed by some voice acting for the babe by a woman who I'm fairly sure was paid a fair wage for her work.
I'll even go as far as to say this voice actress was probably treated with respect by her coworkers, and was not slapped once during any of the recording sessions.

What will happen next is I will chuckle at this action, and go on with bringing the babe back to my base while firing missiles/bullets/shrinkrays at other human models running around.
But that doesn't go too far does it? No, murder is fine and dandy, but whatever you do, don't make a silly joke!
Go preach somewhere else, I have no need of your self righteous babble.

Going by your logic hundreds of years of cinema and literature means nothing because they were only books and movies?
Someone never heard of representations and what is their power. Things mean stuff whether you want it or not.

 

[Boba Frag]

I look forward to being simultaneously offended and entertained by this soon.

If anything, it gives a unique insight on Duke's ways with women

The timing of this is pretty funny, actually. Same week as the PAX panel on female character design posts...

I don't find real world chauvinism in any way amusing or acceptable. However, seeing as how this is a game poking fun, I hope it's done in such an over the top, in your face style that you can't help but laugh.

Hail to the King, baby.

 

[SlugLady28]

I'm a girl, and a bit of a feminist. How messed up is it that I want to play this?

Wanna date? I mean multiplayer?

Sorry, I'm not much for long distance relationships XD

I know, it doesn't make it less offensive, but the Overly Long Gag [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OverlyLongGag] is the essence of what Duke is. Taking him as anything more than a running joke means you're doing it wrong, very, very wrong!

When the protesters start inevitably flipping out, I look forward to shouting "you're doing it wrong!"

But really, I've heard about the other "surprises" in this game. When the media blows this up, it'll take a half an hour just to list everything they find offensive XD I look forward to watching the hilarity.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

Oh crap, I can just see Fox News chewing them up over this, but hey that's part of the fun

But... Doesn't Fox News want to return to the 50's with women barefoot and pregnant, fixing dinner in the kitchen and doing laundry? They should be all for this game!

 

[ShadowKirby]

Going by your logic hundreds of years of cinema and literature means nothing because they were only books and movies?
Someone never heard of representations and what is their power. Things mean stuff whether you want it or not.

You are wrong. This does mean nothing, because it is a silly joke in a video game that amounts to little more than a prolonged silly joke.
Or I suppose The Nutty Professor was a deep, profound insight into the everyday reality of being fat?
Indepedence Day was a heartfelt exploration of what combat does to the psyche?
The Expendables gave us a heartwrenching glimpse of the trials and tribulations of... I can't even complete the goddamn sentence because that movie meant NOTHING.
I could go on you know.
Point is, you are wrong. It is perfectly possible to have a fictional character perform an action without it having to mean anything.

No, if the creator is having his character perform an action, there is always intent and meaning. In any creative work, things exist for a reason. It doesn't need to be deep or philosophically meaningful but there is always a reason behind the actions, a certain meaning, however shallow it can be.

Independence Day wasn't a heartfelt exploration of what combat does to the psyche. But whatever actions characters took or whatever events happened had an implication, a reason to be, whether to push the plot forward, or serve the bigger story. Sometimes they meant something beyond the scope of the plot. One cannot ignore the overly patriotic tone of the movie or the represented will to sacrifice one's life to serve a greater good. If you really think a movie means nothing (yeah, even the Expendables mean something if you look into it), then you didn't think hard enough.

Likewise, the actions Duke takes are put there with an intent by the creator. They mean something, whether the developers meant it or not. Sure, the intent is to serve the comedy or the satire, but when put in a greater sociological context, especially when you think at how women are represented in games ( http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108442-UPDATE-Video-of-Females-on-Female-Characters-Panel ) or how they are treated online ( http://gambit.mit.edu/updates/2011/03/hate_speech_in_game_communitie.php ), you have to think about the implications of taking a woman over your shoulder and slapping her on the ass to calm her down.

Sure, maybe this is how things roll in the Duke universe, but the game does not exist in a void (no human creation does) and it is affecting and is affected by the world around around it. You cannot decide to cut yourself from society and some of its norms and live in an empty and unrelated space.

 

[ShadowKirby]

Pseudo-intellectual rant removed for brevity.
...you have to think about the implications of taking a woman over your shoulder and slapping her on the ass to calm her down.
More amateur sociology removed for brevity.

No, YOU have to think about the implications of taking a woman over your shoulder and slapping her on the ass to calm her down. I don't, because I don't overthink everything.
I take the joke for what it is, a joke, you look for meaning where there is none to be found.
But if I must indulge you, the "meaning" of this action is that someone thought it would be funny, he pitched the idea to his coworkers and they agreed that it would probably make the target audience chuckle. Mystery solved.
If you want to go on believing that there's a deeper meaning to this game, or even more preposterously to The Goddamn Expendables (I liked the movie, but there is no meaning to be had that's worth having), be my guest, I've got better things to do with my time than analyze mindless entertainment for world shattering insights.

1)That's not "meaning", that's your interpretation of what happened behind the the creation of this mechanic, not a perceived meaning within the narrative or the gameplay.

2)If you don't want to think about stuff, that's your problem buddy. But don't ***** about the fact that I take the higher road and decide to do some critical thinking about the media I consume.
Also, what you call pseudo-intellectual rant and amateur sociology is just some of the basic stuff you learn in media communications and cinema theories classes at university.

 

[hazabaza1]

Every announcement I get for this game kills my interest for it a little bit more.

 

[Danpascooch]

I get it's all a big joke, but even I think "reassuring slap" is going too far

Why? ANSWER ME!
How is this going too far? It's a game.
Duke's model will slap the babe's model, probably followed by some voice acting for the babe by a woman who I'm fairly sure was paid a fair wage for her work.
I'll even go as far as to say this voice actress was probably treated with respect by her coworkers, and was not slapped once during any of the recording sessions.

What will happen next is I will chuckle at this action, and go on with bringing the babe back to my base while firing missiles/bullets/shrinkrays at other human models running around.
But that doesn't go too far does it? No, murder is fine and dandy, but whatever you do, don't make a silly joke!
Go preach somewhere else, I have no need of your self righteous babble.

You can't possibly be serious, I didn't freak out, I didn't scream profanities, I admitted it's all a joke, and you're still attacking me like this? Anger issues much?

I think a game about capturing women isn't too far for Duke Nukem, but I do think slapping them is, it's just not cool to do. If the "slap" ends up not being abusive, or is like a pat on the cheek, then it's the articles fault for calling it a slap.

The murder is obviously stupid, you're killing a bunch of pig men with ridiculous weapons, but slapping some woman that you captured has a grounding in reality, that's why it's worse. I'm not standing on a soapbox here, I'm not freaking out (that's you), nor do I think this should prevent anyone from buying the game, I simply think that they went a bit too far, and calmly voiced that opinion.

So in short, chill the fuck out.

 

[Danpascooch]

Wait people think that the game developers are stooping this low to generate controversy?

I thought Duke was ALWAYS about this sort of stuff 0.o

It was. And it sounds pretty damn hilarious. People who whine about this shit just don't understand the concept of satire.

I think "capture the babe" sounds hilarious, because it's so ridiculous, I just don't see how slapping them enhances the game mode or makes it funnier, I just think it's a bit over the line.

 

[mokmoof]

Every announcement I get for this game kills my interest for it a little bit more.

Yeah, it does seem a bit like we're all feeding the trolls here, with Gearbox being the trolls. They're getting free publicity for what looks more and more like a thoroughly phoned-in game.

As for the mechanic itself, it's a classic problem: the line between legitimate satire and the thing being satirized is often a very blurry one. Is Duke Nukem meant to be a satire of chauvinism and adolescent titillation? Absolutely. But will most people play it for the chauvinism and adolescent titillation rather than the satire? Again, absolutely.

And I think it's fair for people who play games to look at Duke Nukem Forever and think, "Hm, this seems to be reinforcing every negative stereotype about games and gamers, and it doesn't seem to be doing so for any particularly compelling reason. That's lame."

It's obnoxious to play into the worst parts of the dominant culture (misogyny, ultraviolence, et al) and expect to be called BRAVE or BALLSY or EXTREME for doing so. That takes no bravery or creativity. It's the safest, least purposeful thing imaginable.

 

[sleeky01]

Capture the Babe is exactly what it sounds like. Instead of a flag, players have to pick up a "babe" and bring her back to the home base. The babe will sometimes freak out, and players have to give her a "reassuring slap," which is "more goofy than offensive" according to OXM. Hail to the King wasn't detailed, but is apparently a "King of the Hill" mode.

I don't know about that. I really hope that's a misquoote. It's not the 1950's anymore.

I'm thinking it's a slap on the butt, rather than across the face.

 

[mannaroth]

hehe Duke Nukem is so silly.

You are absolutely right. Duke Nukem is SILLY! Let's look at it this way. The primary reason people won't like it? CHILDREN. And why are people concerned about children playing such games as Duke Nukem is that kids learn by mimicry. Now let's look at it like this:
Parents don't want their kids playing these games. Don't buy it for your kid, or if your kid buys it, take it away or whatever. Don't protest the release of the game in the first place.
Morons (fox) don't want people playing the game at all? Adults (believe it or not) do NOT learn by mimicry. In fact, adults don't learn very easily (Source: I did year 12 psychology), through any form of media.

Simple solution? DON'T LET KIDS PLAY THE GAME. SLAP AN R OR AO OR WHATEVER ON IT. Parents, don't buy the game! Seriously, nearly every "game related crime" the parents either buy the wildly inappropriate game (let's say GTA 4 for a five year old) or just completely turn a blind eye when the kid plays it. Now, this wouldn't be so bad if when the kid starts mimicking behaviour, which can happen in rare circumstances, especially in children below the age of 10, they turn around and blame the developers! Not the kid that plays it to much, not themselves for letting the kid play it, not the store that didn't tell them that GTA 4 has murder and such other activities, but the developers.

I got off on a rant so let me finish with my personal views on the Duke Nukem Franchise...

WOOOOOOOOO! DUUUUUUUKE! CAPTURE THAT BABE! DUKE DUKE DUKE DUKE DUKE!
I've been waiting for DNF for a while, I'm glad it's out. I'm so getting the balls of steel edition.

Dude jesus why are you ranting at me? I can buy the game because I'm old enough to, I bought Duke Nukem Time to Kill when I was like 12 and you know what. I loved it! Best game ever and I was totally ready for it and my parents were cool with it

 

[ShadowKirby]

You can't possibly be serious.

What gave it away? The fact that I wrote "ANSWER ME!"? Good, have a biscuit.
So no, I was not serious. I mean, I don't think it's going too far, but I don't think you're a preachy self righteous type either.

1)That's not "meaning", that's your interpretation of what happened behind the the creation of this mechanic, not a perceived meaning within the narrative or the gameplay.

2)If you don't want to think about stuff, that's your problem buddy. But don't ***** about the fact that I take the higher road and decide to do some critical thinking about the media I consume.
Also, what you call pseudo-intellectual rant and amateur sociology is just some of the basic stuff you learn in media communications and cinema theories classes at university.

1 - Quite correct, and it is, as far as anyone with actual, you know, useful things to do, is concerned, also the only thing worth knowing about the non-issue at hand, and even then it barely registers.
The meaning behind it, I cannot think of. That's probably because there is none.
If I tell a joke, must the joke have a meaning deeper than simply being a joke?
For instance, just yesterday, I was playing Dragon Age Origins.
I was trying to enter the mage tower via boat, and the templar didn't want to let me on.
I had Sten in my party, who happened to have some cookies with him, which he used to bribe the apparently hungry templar.
When asked where he got them, he told me he had taken them from a fat child in a village we had passed, for his own good, "He didn't need any more".
I chuckled.
What is the deeper meaning here? Does this say something about the Qunari, a warrior race who are born into service to their lords, and spend their entire lives in service to these lords, never smiling, never having fun, never doing anything but their duties to their lords until they die?
Is it perhaps an allegory to the fact that no matter how much society tries, we will always try to have some fun, through whatever avenue is available, no matter how opressive a culture we live in?
That, even in a society where individuality is practically forbidden, men will still differ from one another in small ways?
That the human spirit cannot be bound by laws and instructions?
Come to think of it, maybe the Qunari are supposed to be Soviet Russia. GASP!

See what I did there? I applied your motto of critical thinking to something that absolutely did not warrant it.
The stoic man had cookies, and took them from a fat kid.
Ha ha, the stoic man likes cookies.
Ha he, the kid is fat.
There's your goddamn meaning.

2 - I do want to think about stuff. I want to think about important stuff, like my savings account, or who I should vote for, or what to name my child. You know. Important stuff.
But you are, once again I'm afraid, wrong.
You see, you're not supposed to do any critical thinking when playing a Duke Nukem game.
Or watching The Expendables, for that matter, which, I just have to ask, what insights did you glean from that movie that I, not having been awarded the great and prestigious honor of attending a cinema theories class, could not see for myself?
To get back to the point, no.
If you must overthink everything, I will not hold you from it, but you cannot so pompously claim the high road because I refuse to waste my time considering whether or not a man stealing cookies from a fat kid is supposed to mean anything.

1) So to you, a joke about a quanari taking cookies from a fat kid (that's funny), is on the same level of a guy picking up a chick on his shoulder and slapping her ass to calm her down? Come on, they can be both jokes, but they are not the same thing. The first is a little joke sneaked up in the game that has no real impact on the story as an whole (intent=being funny), while the second is an integral part of a play mode.

2)I can think about all that stuff and also about the media I consume. Maybe you don't think it's important but I certainly do. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Also, do not tell me what I'm supposed to analyze or not. If I think that there is something wrong with what DNF is doing, I have the damn right to say, whether you believe there is place for analysis or not.

Also, cut the snark.

 

[Robert B. Marks]

I know lots of people are offended here by this, but I've been doing some reading on this, and I think this might just be a send-up of video game sexism and misogyny rather than real sexism and misogyny.

Here's the thing - a send-up works by exaggerating something to the point of stupidity, or somewhere near it. As has been clarified a number of times, the "capture the babe" game involves getting into the opponent's base, grabbing their girl, throwing her over your shoulder, and running off. If she starts to freak out and cover your eyes, you give her a soft slap on the hindquarters to calm her down.

Now, we haven't actually seen what this looks like in the game, but the description IS over-the-top and ridiculous. Think of it this way - if you went to a beach, grabbed a random woman in a bikini, threw her over your shoulder, and tried to calm her down by giving her a soft pat on the rear, would she:

1. Become quiet, submissive, and accepting of her fate; or
2. Claw your eyes out.

If you voted for one...um...well...wow. Just wow. But, reality is on #2, and everybody playing will know that. So, the game is taking a sexism and objectification that is already present in video games, and making it over-the-top and ludicrous. That does indeed look like a send-up to me.

Whether it's a send-up that is actually funny, well, only time will tell.

 

[frans909]

When the protesters start inevitably flipping out, I look forward to shouting "you're doing it wrong!"

Protesters... Another thing that Postal 2 already dealt with. Games are bad, they make you mad!

 

[Blind Sight]

I'm going to rent this and show it to my feminist roommate. Her reaction will probably be more fun then the game.

Apparently some folks on the Escapist don't understand what satire is, but to each their own.

 

[justnotcricket]

What bothers me in particular is the 'Carte Blanche' factor.

Whenever people object to the gross chauvinism inherent to Duke Nukem's identity, they're met with 'Oh, you just don't understand Duke and the Duke universe. It's not offensive, it's funny'. This is exactly the problem. Sometimes, it just stops being funny. Sometimes, it just stops being satire and starts being openly awful. How much can a game/movie/series whatever get away with based solely on the 'Oh, it's just a laugh' factor?

I'm not trying to suggest there's some sort of anti-feminist, pro chauvinist conspiracy going on here. I just think that stuff like Duke Nukem shouldn't be allowed to get away with progressively more insulting themes just because it appeals to a fourteen-year old mentality that will shortly start wondering why it has such trouble attracting girls.

Stereotypes are used so often in comedy because they're funny. I'm sure there aren't any ridiculous pro-chauvanist, anti-feminism freaks at Gearbox, but Duke's a funny character because of how ridiculously, unrealistically chauvanist HE is.
It's ludicrous, it's surreal, it's everything good comedy is built on. A badass chauvanist chomping on a cigar kicking alien Pigcops in the face with his boot. Come the fuck on... Be serious, you're extracting issues about morality and taste from this? I hope to God you've never seen a Troma movie... You'd have a field day with them.

Is it considered an inadequate post if I just say 'QED'? =S

There's no need to start swearing at me, I haven't called for Duke to be banned or for all action game heroes to become SNAGs, my point was merely to wonder, once you start writing things off as 'Oh' it's just for a laugh', how far someone or something can get away with venturing into the realms of poor taste before they get called on it.

I don't like the idea of Duke giving babes a 'reassuring slap'. I don't care if its 'just on the ass' (excuse me?!?). It's offensive. Someone further up in this thread tried to make the point that it was just like any action hero giving any hysterical character a sobering slap, but it's not. If you're OK with using a slap as a means of 'reassuring' communication with women, then I pity the females in your life.