EA Hosting Panel on Homophobia in Gaming

[squid5580]

I am pretty sure that is why it is called "an expression". As in not to be taken literally.

This leads me to my second beef. The sensitivity. I am in no way condoning racial/homophobic slurs. Nor am I saying I approve of people attacking and insulting each other on XBL using those kinds of words (I have no problems calling you a dick or an asshole if you kill me) but there is a line and the racial/homophobic slurs are across said line. On that note if someone calls you that you can't throw down your mic and cry about it. Then go to your nearest forum and accuse the entire XBL community of being a bunch of bigots. For lack of better words (and no offense ladies since my wife hates it when I tell her to do this but) MAN UP!!

That looked like a pretty literal usage to me. Are we to interpret all your "beefs" on here as non-literal, as only expressions?

That is your right to take whatever I say as however you want. I suppose it would be alot easier for you if you did though. Then you could claim victory by taking everything I say out of context and twist it to fit your arguement.

Although how would a woman man up without needing surgery and years of psychological battering I don't understand.

So what did you mean by it?

To basically suck it up. Quit crying put it behind you and move on. Do you expect everyone to like you and accept you? Are you going to stress if someone doesn't for whatever reason? Or are you going to try and surround yourself with people who do?

Or the alternative is let it eat at you, give you an ulcer, and at the end of the day accomplish nothing because there is nothing you can say to an anti-gay person to make them like gays. Just like you can't make someone like you when they just don't. Congrats you just wasted your most precious resource being unhappy. How do you feel?

Life is too short to waste like that.

 

[squid5580]

Try explaining lesbian so it doesn't mean what everyone knows it means.

She's a big fan of the isle of Lesbos.

Shouldn't lesbos be considered just as derogatory as fag when used in a context like the one you are using it as?

Not when you put "isle of" in front of it.

Then it contributes nothing to this topic. Try slipping Isle of Lesbians in there and see how far it gets you.

 

[squid5580]

To basically suck it up. Quit crying put it behind you and move on. Do you expect everyone to like you and accept you?

I don't think they're crying about the unexpected happening.

Are you going to stress if someone doesn't for whatever reason?

That's why they cry--crying is a way of relieving stress.

Or are you going to try and surround yourself with people who do?

That would involve never playing online.

Or the alternative is let it eat at you,

Why do you assume someone complaining is them allowing it to eat at them?

give you an ulcer,

Isn't "sucking it up" more likely to give someone an ulcer than "crying about it"? Isn't it healthier to get it out rather than bottle it up inside?

and at the end of the day accomplish nothing because there is nothing you can say to an anti-gay person to make them like gays.

What about the happiness that comes from the feeling of solidarity that comes from calling anti-gay people on their hate?

Just like you can't make someone like you when they just don't.

http://holdsteady.wikia.com/wiki/You_Can_Make_Him_Like_You

Congrats you just wasted your most precious resource being unhappy.

Maybe complaining is there way of not allowing it to make them unhappy.

Life is too short to waste like that.

Says the person complaining on the news discussion forum of a gaming site about people who complain about an internet game service ;-D

Correction says the person debating on a news discussion forum of a gaming site about people who complain about an internet game service. I am not the one complaining. I think the system is fine for what it is. If the world was perfect then the system could be changed.

Although since a complete stranger's opinion seems to matter so much on XBL well even if the world was perfect someone would still be crying just because they were unliked by another.

BTW it isn't hard to surround yourself with friends on XBL. It is called the party system and you can have 7 of your friends in a private chat at the same time.

*EDIT*
The irony of it is that I tried to explain to people who's biggest worry in life is some random stranger using homophobic slurs on the internet. Man if that was my only problem I would be gold.

Even more ironic is it isn't ok to put down homosexuals or use the term "that is gay" but it is ok to call every XBL user who isn't black or gay racist homophobes. Funny how that works. Almost makes me wonder if all those problematic XBL users don't actually feel that way but are just tired of being accused of it so they decided to "do the crime" since they are already doing the time.

 

[squid5580]

Correction says the person debating on a news discussion forum of a gaming site about people who complain about an internet game service.

Ah! Well, there's your problem. These people aren't complaining about an internet game service. They are merely "debating" about it. You were just mistaken about what they are doing.

Funny because in a debate someone usually looks for a viable solution and doesn't just whine about how terrible it is.

And I edited the post BTW.

 

[squid5580]

Correction says the person debating on a news discussion forum of a gaming site about people who complain about an internet game service.

Ah! Well, there's your problem. These people aren't complaining about an internet game service. They are merely "debating" about it. You were just mistaken about what they are doing.

Funny because in a debate someone usually looks for a viable solution and doesn't just whine about how terrible it is.

Exactly ;-D

How is seperating all races, religions and sexual preference not a viable solution? It just isn't a pleasant one. or how is muting a players who is spouting off nonsense not a viable one? How is not putting your sexual orientation or other controversial issues in your profile for the benefit of the whole community and not to appease your feeling of self worth not a viable one?

Oh right because we should just wait until the world is perfect which is a viable solution.

 

[Moraki]

so wat will EA really do? :S

 

[squid5580]

Correction says the person debating on a news discussion forum of a gaming site about people who complain about an internet game service.

Ah! Well, there's your problem. These people aren't complaining about an internet game service. They are merely "debating" about it. You were just mistaken about what they are doing.

Funny because in a debate someone usually looks for a viable solution and doesn't just whine about how terrible it is.

Exactly ;-D

How is seperating all races, religions and sexual preference not a viable solution? It just isn't a pleasant one. or how is muting a players who is spouting off nonsense not a viable one? How is not putting your sexual orientation or other controversial issues in your profile for the benefit of the whole community and not to appease your feeling of self worth not a viable one?

What's the problem with putting controversial issues in your profile if you can just mute the players who spout off nonsense about controversial issues?

The reason you're not preventing a viable solution is because you keep waffling back and forth and contradicting yourself. You say people should just "Man Up!" and not expect XBL to 'hold anyone's hand' but then you say that XBL should prevent people from putting controversial issues in their profile for 'the good of the community'.

Your response to the criticism that others have of your solution undercuts the very logic on which you based your solution.

Only because you can't accept the fact that putting a contoversial issue in your profile is a bad thing for the community. So I am trying to find a solution so you can have your cake and eat it too (and no there is no cake). Every solution requires a bit of sacrifice from someone and no one is willing to give an inch.

Don't put it in and that is some sort of oppression.

Muting expects you to have common sense which is a rare commodity.

Not getting offended when a random stranger insults "your people" or you specifically. see above

MS is not holding anyone's hand because as I said if you can put I am gay in yours then I can put I am anti gay in mine (in a non threatening manner) which as you said yourself would cause problems within the community. And that is not the purpose of that specific community (yes I know every internet community should be a soapbox for whatever race, religion or sexual orientation. Heaven forbid you use it for what it was designed for and that is to play games).

So the only option left is either wait for someone to hit the reset button and start over. Wait for an alien invasion then we have a common enemy. Take out chat altogether. Or take out the online component of every game.

Now to me not allowing anyone put in any controversial issues (no matter how right or wrong you might think the issue is) sounds to me like the best option. Afterall NAMBLA members consider themselves to have normal sexual orientation and yet people would snap if they were playing a match and went to another players profile to send a friend request, offer feedback or just curiosity and saw I like making love to little boys or proud NAMBLA member. That is OK though because you have the "right" to say you are a homosexual in yours and that is all that matters.

And yes I am aware that NAMBLA is different than the homosexual community. I am also fairly sure they feel just as bashed and oppressed as the gay community and they think it isn't right as well. Open the door for one and you open it for all.

 

[Alex_P]

Oh right because we should just wait until the world is perfect which is a viable solution.

And "buffer up a little bit of chat and attach it to a report request" isn't a viable solution? Both the GLAAD spokesperson and Cobra Ky came up with that in only a few minutes.

-- Alex

 

[Foolishman1776]

I'm going to once again bring up the fact that people expect special treatment because of a choice. Before you go off on the "they/I can't help it" thing, consider this. If I am born liking vanilla ice cream, I can still learn to enjoy chocolate. If you are homosexual, you are not physically incapable of reproduction, you could even learn to enjoy it. That there may or may not be a predisposition of some kind towards the behavior does not make it any less a choice, it simply makes one choice more attractive than the other. So, that being said, asking for special treatment and privileges for homosexuals is like asking for special treatment and privileges for people who like bacon flavored ice cream.

 

[squid5580]

Oh right because we should just wait until the world is perfect which is a viable solution.

And "buffer up a little bit of chat and attach it to a report request" isn't a viable solution? Both the GLAAD spokesperson and Cobra Ky came up with that in only a few minutes.

-- Alex

In a room full of 16 people? Do we have voice recognition technology? How do you know when to start and stop recording? By the time I call you a name it will be how long before you can get to the button to start recording it? And does it matter if I call you a name directly? Can I just say the word and face the banhammer? What is or isn't acceptable? If a am a homosexual can I use it? Afterall it wouldn't be the first time I heard a homosexual use the 3 letter F word. Just like it wouldn't be the first time I heard a black person use the N word. Can I call you another name? You kill me in a DM and I call you a douchebag (because that is what I call everyone who kills me) since you are homosexual does that mean I should get banned? Where is the line?

 

[leviathanmisha]

I'm talking about anyone: Religions, nationalities, races, etc. No special treatment, and no conferences to discuss how we should cater to the needs of these groups who think that they are some-how more special than the rest of us.

I believe that's their point; no special treatment, no being used as a slur, no being harassed at every turn. For everyone, not just WASP males aged 14-34.

Frankly, one thing driving me out of the online game community is the rampant bigotry and incredible idiocy on it... and if GLAAD and EA can help get rid of that crap, so much the better for everyone and not just gays.

-- Steve

I agree, I actually quit Xbox live and deleted my account just because it was so sickening. You have to understand that not everyone laughs off the slurs and remarks, it really does offend people. I used to be called a lesbian every time I killed someone, and I got fed up with it. I moved to a community that doesn't toss out slurs at you every six seconds. The sooner that XBL gets cleared up the better.

 

[leviathanmisha]

I'm going to once again bring up the fact that people expect special treatment because of a choice. Before you go off on the "they/I can't help it" thing, consider this. If I am born liking vanilla ice cream, I can still learn to enjoy chocolate. If you are homosexual, you are not physically incapable of reproduction, you could even learn to enjoy it. That there may or may not be a predisposition of some kind towards the behavior does not make it any less a choice, it simply makes one choice more attractive than the other. So, that being said, asking for special treatment and privileges for homosexuals is like asking for special treatment and privileges for people who like bacon flavored ice cream.

You make no sense...seriously. Did you ever consider the fact that some people go to the same sex for reasons that we can't control? You are the kind of people that make the internet a place of ignorance. Some people are homosexual because of past experiences, or they find a certain attraction in the same sex. You can't make someone like having sex with a women, it just doesn't work that way. And seriously, using ice cream as a comparison? How does that work?

 

[Alex_P]

In a room full of 16 people? Do we have voice recognition technology?

Not an issue at all -- the audio is already sorted into separate streams based on its source. You don't need to do any kind of filtering at all.

How do you know when to start and stop recording? By the time I call you a name it will be how long before you can get to the button to start recording it?

You don't have to guess when to start recording anything. The system would just buffer the voice data for a minute or two. That would only give you a short window to report something, but it would be sufficient for a lightweight solution.

And does it matter if I call you a name directly? Can I just say the word and face the banhammer? What is or isn't acceptable? If a am a homosexual can I use it? Afterall it wouldn't be the first time I heard a homosexual use the 3 letter F word. Just like it wouldn't be the first time I heard a black person use the N word. Can I call you another name? You kill me in a DM and I call you a douchebag (because that is what I call everyone who kills me) since you are homosexual does that mean I should get banned? Where is the line?

If you think that MS should be making rules about what you can or can't put in your profile, then why shouldn't they be making rules about what you can or can't say in the voice chat? Regulating one but not the other seems awfully hypocritical -- especially when the thing that they're not regulating is the one that makes targeted harassment possible.

-- Alex

 

[squid5580]

In a room full of 16 people? Do we have voice recognition technology?

Not an issue at all -- the audio is already sorted into separate streams based on its source. You don't need to do any kind of filtering at all.

How do you know when to start and stop recording? By the time I call you a name it will be how long before you can get to the button to start recording it?

You don't have to guess when to start recording anything. The system would just buffer the voice data for a minute or two. That would only give you a short window to report something, but it would be sufficient for a lightweight solution.

And does it matter if I call you a name directly? Can I just say the word and face the banhammer? What is or isn't acceptable? If a am a homosexual can I use it? Afterall it wouldn't be the first time I heard a homosexual use the 3 letter F word. Just like it wouldn't be the first time I heard a black person use the N word. Can I call you another name? You kill me in a DM and I call you a douchebag (because that is what I call everyone who kills me) since you are homosexual does that mean I should get banned? Where is the line?

If you think that MS should be making rules about what you can or can't put in your profile, then why shouldn't they be making rules about what you can or can't say in the voice chat? Regulating one but not the other seems awfully hypocritical -- especially when the thing that they're not regulating is the one that makes targeted harassment possible.

-- Alex

Here we go again. They have already regulated online. Mute and block. Someone harrasses you mute them. Sending you bad messages report them or block them. Why is that not good enough? Why is saying look in the interest of the entire community lets keep religion, sex, and all other sensitive issues out of your motto bad? Why must we go to this extreme so you can put "I am gay" in your profile and I can put "I am a proud anti-gay NAMBLA Satanist" in mine. If you are grown up enough to make that decision shouldn't you also be mature enough to understand how having that in your profile might offend someone else.

No I forgot that isn't right. Why you must get revenge. If someone uses a word you don't like muting them isn't enough (even though you would still hear it even with the suggested system and isn't that the point?) you must insure they get banned as well. And by the time it is all said and done no one will pay money for gold and online will die out anyways. Good plan.

 

[Alex_P]

Here we go again. They have already regulated online. Mute and block. Someone harrasses you mute them. Sending you bad messages report them or block them. Why is that not good enough? Why is saying look in the interest of the entire community lets keep religion, sex, and all other sensitive issues out of your motto bad? Why must we go to this extreme so you can put "I am gay" in your profile and I can put "I am a proud anti-gay NAMBLA Satanist" in mine. If you are grown up enough to make that decision shouldn't you also be mature enough to understand how having that in your profile might offend someone else.

No I forgot that isn't right. Why you must get revenge. If someone uses a word you don't like muting them isn't enough (even though you would still hear it even with the suggested system and isn't that the point?) you must insure they get banned as well. And by the time it is all said and done no one will pay money for gold and online will die out anyways. Good plan.

Your position is incoherent.

You believe that the community should self-regulate chat through ignore lists and mute without any official moderation, but that moderators should scrub profiles for "sensitive issues" -- if you're all about self-regulation, why not just ask people not to look at profiles they find offensive?

Why is it important that profiles be expurgated to protect you from "sensitive issues" while chat -- where people can harass others directly -- be a free-for-all? Why are you so invested in defending this particular arrangement?

What's so great about the status quo? Is it bad for industry folks to even talk about whether their policies are having the desired effect?

-- Alex