EA Hosting Panel on Homophobia in Gaming

[squid5580]

Again it doesn't matter to me why they were discriminated against. Look back a few pages and explain to me how the discrimination I face just because I have long hair (which is quite similar to those listed by some people) but because I am not black or gay it doesn't matter.

So do you consider any dress code that requires short hair (where safety is not a concern) to be as repugnant as one that requires all workers to be white?

Worse actually. At least if I were dicriminated against if I were black I would have some kind of recourse.

No, that's what I'm talking about: do you think that if an employer won't hire you because of your long hair that you should be able to take him to court the same as an employer that won't hire someone who is black?

Alas I am white and hetrosexual therefore I am not special enough.

White heterosexuals cannot cut their hair?

So one day she is playing on XBL 5 years from now when she recieves a friend request from a person who claims they are a lesbian in thier profile. This is assuming the rule is still the same so I usually wouldn't worry about her getting a friend request and seeing thier profile. This is an example of the conversation that could come from it.

"Daddy what is a lesbian"
"a lesbian is a girl who loves another girl"
"so I am a lesbian since I love mommy?"

Thank you now I am stuck.

Only because you didn't say "a lesbian is a girl who wants to marry another girl."

"Why?"

"Because they love each other sweetie"

"But I love mommy and we aren't married. So what is the difference?"

"They love each other the way I love mommy"

"What is the difference?"

Exactly--your problem is explaining marriage and the difference between the love parents have for each other as opposed to the love between a child and a parent.

Should I have to cut my hair to conform to normal society's standards? Now change the 5th to 8th words to "stop being gay." But thank you for making my point for me.

I guess I was right when I said the internet does disciminate indiscriminately.

 

[squid5580]

Again it doesn't matter to me why they were discriminated against. Look back a few pages and explain to me how the discrimination I face just because I have long hair (which is quite similar to those listed by some people) but because I am not black or gay it doesn't matter.

So do you consider any dress code that requires short hair (where safety is not a concern) to be as repugnant as one that requires all workers to be white?

Worse actually. At least if I were dicriminated against if I were black I would have some kind of recourse.

No, that's what I'm talking about: do you think that if an employer won't hire you because of your long hair that you should be able to take him to court the same as an employer that won't hire someone who is black?

Should I have to cut my hair to conform to normal society's standards? Now change the 5th to 8th words to "stop being gay."

But thank you for making my point for me.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, but let me say this: what if I changed the 5th to 8th words to "stop being Christian"?

Exactly that is what we call DISCRIMINATION. Ley me break this down for you. The internet society as a whole as some here want you to believe they are anti gay. You try to use the real world to make your point. And then say it is wrong for an employer to discriminate because the color of a person's skin. But it is ok to discriminate against a person because the length of thier hair. Why? Because the person with long hair chose it. Well the physical act of being gay is also a choice. I don't need to tell someone I am gay. I choose to. I may have homosexual instincts but celibacy is also a choice. If a person is gay but remains a virgin and is single for the rest of thier lives are they gay? We have instincts, it is what makes us who we are. We also have free will. We choose to act on these instincts. The only one who doesn't get the fair shake here is the black guy. He is the only one who never had a choice.

 

[squid5580]

Again it doesn't matter to me why they were discriminated against. Look back a few pages and explain to me how the discrimination I face just because I have long hair (which is quite similar to those listed by some people) but because I am not black or gay it doesn't matter.

So do you consider any dress code that requires short hair (where safety is not a concern) to be as repugnant as one that requires all workers to be white?

Worse actually. At least if I were dicriminated against if I were black I would have some kind of recourse.

No, that's what I'm talking about: do you think that if an employer won't hire you because of your long hair that you should be able to take him to court the same as an employer that won't hire someone who is black?

Should I have to cut my hair to conform to normal society's standards? Now change the 5th to 8th words to "stop being gay."

But thank you for making my point for me.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, but let me say this: what if I changed the 5th to 8th words to "stop being Christian"?

Exactly that is what we call DISCRIMINATION. Ley me break this down for you. The internet society as a whole as some here want you to believe they are anti gay. You try to use the real world to make your point. And then say it is wrong for an employer to discriminate because the color of a person's skin. But it is ok to discriminate against a person because the length of thier hair. Why? Because the person with long hair chose it.

Well, hey--if that's your argument, then it all holds together. Of course, your argument requires you to work for the repeal of part of the First Amendment. And now with the advent of Sex Reassignment Surgery, laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of gender. Or against married people. Or people with kids.

The only one who doesn't get the fair shake here is the black guy. He is the only one who never had a choice.

EDIT: what if it's because he's married to a white woman?

When you are talking about the internet (which I am) there is no First Admendmant. Those rules don't apply. The only rules that do apply are the ones set by the owners of the service provided. Fair or not the internet as a whole discriminates indescriminately. It is the world wide web not the North American web. Just because something is accepted as OK in your society doesn't mean it is in mine. And just because MS is a North American based company it doesn't mean all thier customers are North American. They have to consider all thier customers from all countries and beliefs and put policies in that protect everyone the best they can.

 

[squid5580]

Again it doesn't matter to me why they were discriminated against. Look back a few pages and explain to me how the discrimination I face just because I have long hair (which is quite similar to those listed by some people) but because I am not black or gay it doesn't matter.

So do you consider any dress code that requires short hair (where safety is not a concern) to be as repugnant as one that requires all workers to be white?

Worse actually. At least if I were dicriminated against if I were black I would have some kind of recourse.

No, that's what I'm talking about: do you think that if an employer won't hire you because of your long hair that you should be able to take him to court the same as an employer that won't hire someone who is black?

Should I have to cut my hair to conform to normal society's standards? Now change the 5th to 8th words to "stop being gay."

But thank you for making my point for me.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, but let me say this: what if I changed the 5th to 8th words to "stop being Christian"?

Exactly that is what we call DISCRIMINATION. Ley me break this down for you. The internet society as a whole as some here want you to believe they are anti gay. You try to use the real world to make your point. And then say it is wrong for an employer to discriminate because the color of a person's skin. But it is ok to discriminate against a person because the length of thier hair. Why? Because the person with long hair chose it. Well the physical act of being gay is also a choice. I don't need to tell someone I am gay. I choose to. I may have homosexual instincts but celibacy is also a choice. If a person is gay but remains a virgin and is single for the rest of thier lives are they gay? We have instincts, it is what makes us who we are. We also have free will. We choose to act on these instincts. The only one who doesn't get the fair shake here is the black guy. He is the only one who never had a choice.

Ehhhhhhh.... I'd like to agree with you, but we can't all be asexual. Some people have high testosterone counts (male or female) leading to a more active sex drive. I can understand what you're getting at, since I don't really have a sex drive, but you can't generalize. I learned that a long time ago.

OK I am a bit confused. What exactly do you mean by generalizing? That is what the whole thing has been about. XBL is homophobic (generalization). The entire homosexual community need to have thier sexual orientation in thier profiles (generalization). The tools provided by XBL aren't enough to protect the homosexual community because MS is not banning the homophobic people or MS is relying on you to protect yourself (generalization)

 

[squid5580]

Again it doesn't matter to me why they were discriminated against. Look back a few pages and explain to me how the discrimination I face just because I have long hair (which is quite similar to those listed by some people) but because I am not black or gay it doesn't matter.

So do you consider any dress code that requires short hair (where safety is not a concern) to be as repugnant as one that requires all workers to be white?

Worse actually. At least if I were dicriminated against if I were black I would have some kind of recourse.

No, that's what I'm talking about: do you think that if an employer won't hire you because of your long hair that you should be able to take him to court the same as an employer that won't hire someone who is black?

Should I have to cut my hair to conform to normal society's standards? Now change the 5th to 8th words to "stop being gay."

But thank you for making my point for me.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here, but let me say this: what if I changed the 5th to 8th words to "stop being Christian"?

Exactly that is what we call DISCRIMINATION. Ley me break this down for you. The internet society as a whole as some here want you to believe they are anti gay. You try to use the real world to make your point. And then say it is wrong for an employer to discriminate because the color of a person's skin. But it is ok to discriminate against a person because the length of thier hair. Why? Because the person with long hair chose it.

Well, hey--if that's your argument, then it all holds together. Of course, your argument requires you to work for the repeal of part of the First Amendment. And now with the advent of Sex Reassignment Surgery, laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of gender. Or against married people. Or people with kids.

The only one who doesn't get the fair shake here is the black guy. He is the only one who never had a choice.

EDIT: what if it's because he's married to a white woman?

When you are talking about the internet (which I am)

Oh, I wasn't--I was talking about the law in general, like hate crime or employment discrimination laws. Why are you talking about the internet? I responded to you saying: "Look back a few pages and explain to me how the discrimination I face just because I have long hair"--I thought that happened in real life?

That has been the whole problem with this debate. It is to easy to use the IRL side when you want to prove your side (and we all are guilty of that). And if this thread was about EA and MS fighting the injustices of IRL homophobia then you would find my posts would be the opposite. I did post something along those lines a couple posts down in response to Alex when I brought up the discrimination "Xbots" face here on the Escapist (although PS3 owners are discriminated similarly). Giving people anonimity along with removing the threat of physical violence for being a douchebag in a world wide sense is a huge dfference than what happens IRL. The big difference being the worst that can happen online is name calling. If you don't like it you can turn off your computer or console and you don't have to deal with it. The consequences in IRL are quite different and harder to escape.

 

[Ginnipe]

so im guessing this means that if some kid just goes oh wow this game is gay then he's banned or something? it's the internet, you can't really controle it.

 

[squid5580]

The big difference being the worst that can happen online is name calling. If you don't like it you can turn off your computer or console and you don't have to deal with it.

So why ban people from identifying as homosexual in their profiles? If they don't like the response, they "can turn off your computer or console and you don't have to deal with it" because "the worst that can happen online is name calling."

I can't say for certain this is MS's reasoning behind it but if I was Gates this would be mine.

If people put in thier profile a controversial issue (not just homosexuality) this will lead to a disruption of the enviroment I am trying create. Instead of people killing each other in a deathmatch or working together in a co op setting this could lead to alot of arguing between the 2 different sides. So when a third neutral party who is there to have fun enters the room and the middle of this arguement they have to listen to it. Which could turn them off of the whole experience and then there go my profits.

So I have given you and everyone else the ability to say whatever you want and the tools to protect yourselves from these debates by giving you the tools to not have to listen to it. A privilege that you yourself monitor and I don't have to higher a bunch of people to try and protect you from them insuring more profits. Since you can't mute a profile or erase the knowledge of what you read from another's that is controversial I have to lay down some rules as to what is or isn't acceptable to protect everyone from everyone else as well as insuring I don't give any special consideration to another group even though I do agree with the statement that their thing shouldn't be controversial in the first place. Even if I am a Christian I can't say no religion in your profile except Christianity. I have to remain a neutral party in this for the sake of my business. And even when it is brought to my attention that a Christian has put "hardcore Christian" in thier profile I have to punish them the same way I would one who puts "hardcore Muslim" in thiers. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

And as a last point there is also the children. Not that I have any interest in protecting them. My interest really lies in giving parents the illusion that I do. That is why itell parents to monitor the voice chat, only let them talk with friends in private chat and don't let them run free over XBL. Although the animals from Viva Pinata do a much better job of explaining this concept than I can. Allowing the controversial stuff in profiles is counter productive for my message of protecting the children.

Or it could simply be (in my best Bill Gates voice) "My company, my rules. If you don't like it or can't accept it then I don't really want your business in the first place. This is my way of separating the wheat from the chaff."

 

[squid5580]

If people put in thier profile a controversial issue (not just homosexuality) this will lead to a disruption of the enviroment I am trying create. Instead of people killing each other in a deathmatch or working together in a co op setting this could lead to alot of arguing between the 2 different sides. So when a third neutral party who is there to have fun enters the room and the middle of this arguement they have to listen to it. Which could turn them off of the whole experience and then there go my profits.

Exactly--this is about profits. Which means XBL has to admit the CoC isn't for any noble purpose, it's for profits. I'm not sure Microsoft is willing to do that, and if they're not, they're hypocrites.

Or it could simply be (in my best Bill Gates voice) "My company, my rules. If you don't like it or can't accept it then I don't really want your business in the first place. This is my way of separating the wheat from the chaff."

Yeah, I'm sure Bill Gates doesn't want EA's business...maybe he should ask Sega how that worked out for them.

What are you going on about? MS not wanting EA's business? And that has what to do with the price of tomatoes? This is not a company thing in the context I used it. I am talking about the (for lack of a better word) fanatics who will use this to try and disrupt the community by using it as thier own personal soapbox. EA as far as I am concered are jumpin in With MS for the same reason. "oh look we care to" which equals $Ca-ching$ and free publicity to boot.

And who said it being about anything other than money? They didn't make the 360 to make the world a better place. You have the GBLT and other the other groups like it for that purpose

 

[squid5580]

If people put in thier profile a controversial issue (not just homosexuality) this will lead to a disruption of the enviroment I am trying create. Instead of people killing each other in a deathmatch or working together in a co op setting this could lead to alot of arguing between the 2 different sides. So when a third neutral party who is there to have fun enters the room and the middle of this arguement they have to listen to it. Which could turn them off of the whole experience and then there go my profits.

Exactly--this is about profits. Which means XBL has to admit the CoC isn't for any noble purpose, it's for profits. I'm not sure Microsoft is willing to do that, and if they're not, they're hypocrites.

Or it could simply be (in my best Bill Gates voice) "My company, my rules. If you don't like it or can't accept it then I don't really want your business in the first place. This is my way of separating the wheat from the chaff."

Yeah, I'm sure Bill Gates doesn't want EA's business...maybe he should ask Sega how that worked out for them.

What are you going on about? MS not wanting EA's business? And that has what to do with the price of tomatoes? This is not a company thing in the context I used it. I am talking about the (for lack of a better word) fanatics who will use this to try and disrupt the community by using it as thier own personal soapbox.

Then it isn't about a lot of the people who want to identify their sexual orientation either--not all of them are "fanatics who will use this to try and disrupt the community by using it as thier own personal soapbox."

And how am I supposed to trust they won't? If they make that big of a deal about it in the first place, that it is so important to them, how can I trust they won't go off like "fanatics" when I unleash them into the community?

And who said it being about anything other than money?

You, when you said it's only about playing games. In fact, that's why they've introduced the community, non-gaming aspects--to make money by selling you stuff for your avatar.

I said it is for the customer that they are providing a safe place to play games. Last I checked making your customers happy is good business. Unfortunately in business as in life you can't make everyone happy. If I can make extra money off selling you non gaming related stuff good for me. And for you since you don't have to buy it but it seems to make you happy (otherwise you would just ignore it) I must be good at business. Has nothing to do with the arguement at hand.

 

[squid5580]

If people put in thier profile a controversial issue (not just homosexuality) this will lead to a disruption of the enviroment I am trying create. Instead of people killing each other in a deathmatch or working together in a co op setting this could lead to alot of arguing between the 2 different sides. So when a third neutral party who is there to have fun enters the room and the middle of this arguement they have to listen to it. Which could turn them off of the whole experience and then there go my profits.

Exactly--this is about profits. Which means XBL has to admit the CoC isn't for any noble purpose, it's for profits. I'm not sure Microsoft is willing to do that, and if they're not, they're hypocrites.

Or it could simply be (in my best Bill Gates voice) "My company, my rules. If you don't like it or can't accept it then I don't really want your business in the first place. This is my way of separating the wheat from the chaff."

Yeah, I'm sure Bill Gates doesn't want EA's business...maybe he should ask Sega how that worked out for them.

What are you going on about? MS not wanting EA's business? And that has what to do with the price of tomatoes? This is not a company thing in the context I used it. I am talking about the (for lack of a better word) fanatics who will use this to try and disrupt the community by using it as thier own personal soapbox.

Then it isn't about a lot of the people who want to identify their sexual orientation either--not all of them are "fanatics who will use this to try and disrupt the community by using it as thier own personal soapbox."

And how am I supposed to trust they won't? If they make that big of a deal about it in the first place, that it is so important to them, how can I trust they won't go off like "fanatics" when I unleash them into the community?

And who said it being about anything other than money?

You, when you said it's only about playing games. In fact, that's why they've introduced the community, non-gaming aspects--to make money by selling you stuff for your avatar.

I said it is for the customer that they are providing a safe place to play games.

No, as I recall, you were trying to make an argument that XBL is for playing games and there's no need for anything else, so people shouldn't have anything in their profile that's not relevant to playing games.

Can't playing dress up with your avatar and dashboard fall into playing a game. Or do you want to argue semantics now?

BTW (again assuming the role of Bill Gates) if I let the profile thing go they way you want it then I have to keep a team of lawyers and publicists on call for everytime I ban a homosexual for violating the rules. Since as demonstrated it is far to easy to use it against me. Oh but someone would never attempt to file a frivolous lawsuit like that.

 

[Lord Thodin]

That sounds freaking gay (wink).

i lol'd. Thats about how i feel.