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Agema

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The energy is different this time. Trump had incredible momentum behind him last time, and he was competing against one of the worst candidates in american history. This time corona has taken ghe wind from his sails by crippling his campaign. He will lose.
Sort of. He clearly expected until March to just have to walk up, say "the economy's great", and let that roll him back into office.

His problem is that it turns out there was no plan B. Trump is so completely self-absorbed the he has obsessed with what matters to himself and what he watches on Fox and right-wing Tweets. As a result he's ended up half wallowing in self-pity and half appealing only to his base.
 

SilentPony

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Sort of. He clearly expected until March to just have to walk up, say "the economy's great", and let that roll him back into office.

His problem is that it turns out there was no plan B. Trump is so completely self-absorbed the he has obsessed with what matters to himself and what he watches on Fox and right-wing Tweets. As a result he's ended up half wallowing in self-pity and half appealing only to his base.
That base is a real problem though. They truly believe the only way Trump will lose is if Biden cheats and steals the election, and when that happens if their patriotic duty to oppose Biden and restore Trump through any means necessary.
 

lil devils x

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That base is a real problem though. They truly believe the only way Trump will lose is if Biden cheats and steals the election, and when that happens if their patriotic duty to oppose Biden and restore Trump through any means necessary.
While I think there is a portion of his base who thinks that, I don't think that represents the majority of his base. I think MOST his base is all talk. If militias and what not become a problem, I still think that the FBI+ State Guard would respond. State Guards are under the control of governors, thus can be deployed without needing permission of the president. The National Guard is also controlled by Congress. They would not need the US military to respond, as they have other forces designated for that.

While it would be the first time they would be deployed due to a rogue President, it would not be the first time they were deployed to maintain the safety of citizens. They were deployed to escort children to school, so they could be deployed here as well if necessary.


Even though different circumstances, it is still an option to deal with the militias.
 
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SilentPony

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Here's a worry though - State Guard are controlled by governors, sure. There are 26 Republican governors, and 24 Democratic ones. Lets say civil unrest gets bad and Illinois calls up their state guard to put down right-wing terrorists groups. What happens when the Missouri state guard is called up to stop the Illinois state guard? Cross the border and impose Missouri rule over Illinois?
I know these seem like far-fetched ideas that require a lot of professionals to give up their country for Trump, but the last 4 years have proven nothing if not a lot of people are okay with a dictatorship as long as they agree with the dictator.

I mean ask yourself do you trust Barr or McConnel or Kavanaugh to say "Sorry Donny, we gotta side with Joe here, you're out, followed swiftly by the rest of us. For the good of the country Donny." What's that line from Fury Road? 'You're relying on the gratitude of a very bad man' Doesn't fit exactly 'cause gratitude isn't part of this discussion, but the larger point of relying on anything from a very bad man I think stands.
 

lil devils x

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Here's a worry though - State Guard are controlled by governors, sure. There are 26 Republican governors, and 24 Democratic ones. Lets say civil unrest gets bad and Illinois calls up their state guard to put down right-wing terrorists groups. What happens when the Missouri state guard is called up to stop the Illinois state guard? Cross the border and impose Missouri rule over Illinois?
I know these seem like far-fetched ideas that require a lot of professionals to give up their country for Trump, but the last 4 years have proven nothing if not a lot of people are okay with a dictatorship as long as they agree with the dictator.

I mean ask yourself do you trust Barr or McConnel or Kavanaugh to say "Sorry Donny, we gotta side with Joe here, you're out, followed swiftly by the rest of us. For the good of the country Donny." What's that line from Fury Road? 'You're relying on the gratitude of a very bad man' Doesn't fit exactly 'cause gratitude isn't part of this discussion, but the larger point of relying on anything from a very bad man I think stands.
It would be an unlawful order for the Missouri State Guard to be called up to fight the Illinois State Guard. The State Guard would have to refuse the order or they would be guilty of treason against the United States. That would then involve the feds and congress can take control over the National guard. The photo I posted above of the national guard escorting children to school in Arkansas, that was after the federal government had to order the national guard to step in due to the Arkansas governor calling up the State Guard to prevent the children from entering the school. National guard overrules State Guard. Congress at that time could take control over the National Guard and order the State Guard to stand down. They did back then, and I would assume they would now. Technically the State Guard is supposed to only follow state orders, but when they are either going to be committing treason against the US or stand down, they usually stand down.
 
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lil devils x

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“We’re Going to Make Sure Trump Leaves”: Leftists Plan to Storm DC After Election
Shut Down DC vows to target members of Congress at their homes.

REAL SOURCE PLZ
 

Houseman

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Okay, here it is straight from the horses' mouth: https://web.archive.org/web/20201019122623/https://www.shutdowndc.org/election2020


Also, from Wikipedia about "mediabiasfactcheck.com":

The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and Van Zandt as an "armchair media analyst."[3] The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific."[5] Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent "amateur/civic outfit" and wrote that its founder's only qualification was a degree in communications.[4]
So if you're going to complain about things not being REAL, you're throwing stones in a glass house.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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That base is a real problem though. They truly believe the only way Trump will lose is if Biden cheats and steals the election, and when that happens if their patriotic duty to oppose Biden and restore Trump through any means necessary.
Nah. They can talk tough, but if Trump loses the election they'll scream and moan, then suck it up and grumble. In the long run someone needs to deal with all this shit otherwise the USA eventually will have a meltdown, but I don't think it's there yet.
 

lil devils x

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Okay, here it is straight from the horses' mouth: https://web.archive.org/web/20201019122623/https://www.shutdowndc.org/election2020


Also, from Wikipedia about "mediabiasfactcheck.com":



So if you're going to complain about things not being REAL, you're throwing stones in a glass house.
You read the entire article cited there instead of just "wiki" right?

"Google “media bias,” and you’ll find Media Bias/Fact Check, run by armchair media analyst Dave Van Zandt. The site’s methodology is simple: Van Zandt and his team rate each outlet from 0 to 10 on the categories of biased wording and headlines, factuality and sourcing, story choices (“does the source report news from both sides”), and political affiliation."


They are arguing that we don't need to measure bias. However, this is more than just about Bias here. Factuality and sourcing isn't just about Bias. We do not actually have/ use a scientific method for checking Bias, so these are what we have at this time. We have Snopes, Factcheck, Politifact, but they do not necessarily check sites specifically, just articles themselves. Wiki does not invalidate their work, it just says that it isn't using ENOUGH data, though there is no option that we have that currently does. They are using a variety of articles for each site to base their data, and they both have CNN and FOX as mixed and Politifact as being neutral highly factual, which is hard to disagree with any of that.
 

SilentPony

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It would be an unlawful order for the Missouri State Guard to be called up to fight the Illinois State Guard. The State Guard would have to refuse the order or they would be guilty of treason against the United States. That would then involve the feds and congress can take control over the National guard. The photo I posted above of the national guard escorting children to school in Arkansas, that was after the federal government had to order the national guard to step in due to the Arkansas governor calling up the State Guard to prevent the children from entering the school. National guard overrules State Guard. Congress at that time could take control over the National Guard and order the State Guard to stand down. They did back then, and I would assume they would now. Technically the State Guard is supposed to only follow state orders, but when they are either going to be committing treason against the US or stand down, they usually stand down.
But that's my problem. I'm from Missouri. Born and raised and still live here. I wouldn't trust Governor Parson with a glass of water, let alone the state guard, let alone trust that state guard.
We're at the point where my governor could order the state guard to cross into Illinois, and I don't trust the guard not to do that, and I don't trust congress to stop them.
It feels like everyone in authority and everyone with a gun wants one person to win, and the rest of us are trusting the authority with guns won't just say "Fuck it" and impose their rule.
I maybe the the liberal equivalent of Trump supporter in that I don't trust the other side one iota, but I do know last time I went to the sporting goods store to get ammo for my .22 to plink some targets they were out of ALL ammo and the gun clerk told me people are getting ready for election day. My nearest neighbor is a huge Trump supporter and despite local ordinances say no firearm shooting he shoots guns off all the time, and last time I reported him I was told guns are an American right.

My point being all of this, the entire election, results, response, all of it is predicated on trust in men and women to put the country before party and that's not a world we live in anymore. We're trusting a Governor doesn't call up the state guard to overthrow another state, we're trusting the state guard won't listen, we're trusting the Congress will step it, we're trusting that the military won't step in, we're trusting local police will protect us from extremists, we're trusting yadda yadda.
And I'm really worried that trust is misplaced.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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lil devils x

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But that's my problem. I'm from Missouri. Born and raised and still live here. I wouldn't trust Governor Parson with a glass of water, let alone the state guard, let alone trust that state guard.
We're at the point where my governor could order the state guard to cross into Illinois, and I don't trust the guard not to do that, and I don't trust congress to stop them.
It feels like everyone in authority and everyone with a gun wants one person to win, and the rest of us are trusting the authority with guns won't just say "Fuck it" and impose their rule.
I maybe the the liberal equivalent of Trump supporter in that I don't trust the other side one iota, but I do know last time I went to the sporting goods store to get ammo for my .22 to plink some targets they were out of ALL ammo and the gun clerk told me people are getting ready for election day. My nearest neighbor is a huge Trump supporter and despite local ordinances say no firearm shooting he shoots guns off all the time, and last time I reported him I was told guns are an American right.

My point being all of this, the entire election, results, response, all of it is predicated on trust in men and women to put the country before party and that's not a world we live in anymore. We're trusting a Governor doesn't call up the state guard to overthrow another state, we're trusting the state guard won't listen, we're trusting the Congress will step it, we're trusting that the military won't step in, we're trusting local police will protect us from extremists, we're trusting yadda yadda.
And I'm really worried that trust is misplaced.
Even if your governor is as bad as Arkansas Governor in 1957, Congress, the state and national guard likely have more sense than he does. They did in 1957 and chose to do what the feds said real quick, they were in no position to go up against US military. They might be brave, but I don't think they are stupid. The US military wouldn't be involved with removing Trump from the white house, the sergeant at arms and The Secret Service would do that, but they sure as hell could be involved with a rogue state declaring war on another state, which is EXACTLY what Missouri would be doing if they ordered their state guard to attack Illinois state guard. I don't think the state guard would follow the unlawful order.

We actually don't have to trust all the governors, we just have to trust ENOUGH of them. 1957 Arkansas Governor Dumb ass there thought he could use the Guard to defy the feds and he was very very wrong. The same would happen here.
 

lil devils x

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They're going to throw Trump out of power with "GoGo bands, salsa dancers, artists, cultural workers", are they?

Sounds dangerous. Someone had better keep an eye on this terrifying paramilitary organisation.
LMAO! Yea, this group of tree huggers looks so menacing.
 

fOx

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Here's a worry though - State Guard are controlled by governors, sure. There are 26 Republican governors, and 24 Democratic ones. Lets say civil unrest gets bad and Illinois calls up their state guard to put down right-wing terrorists groups. What happens when the Missouri state guard is called up to stop the Illinois state guard? Cross the border and impose Missouri rule over Illinois?
I know these seem like far-fetched ideas that require a lot of professionals to give up their country for Trump, but the last 4 years have proven nothing if not a lot of people are okay with a dictatorship as long as they agree with the dictator.

I mean ask yourself do you trust Barr or McConnel or Kavanaugh to say "Sorry Donny, we gotta side with Joe here, you're out, followed swiftly by the rest of us. For the good of the country Donny." What's that line from Fury Road? 'You're relying on the gratitude of a very bad man' Doesn't fit exactly 'cause gratitude isn't part of this discussion, but the larger point of relying on anything from a very bad man I think stands.
That won't happen. what will happen is that trump tries to fudge the numbers, and depending on the results, worst case, it gets decided by the supreme court, and by congress. There will probably be an increase on terroristic violence from the losing side, and possibly some revenge violence from the other. But it won't escalate to full blown civil war. Not right away, atleast. In the end, the situation will be decided by who takes the senate. The senate is more important then the presidential race, arguably.
 
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lil devils x

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That won't happen. what will happen is that trump tries to fudge the numbers, and depending on the results, worst case, it gets decided by the supreme court, and by congress. There will probably be an increase on terroristic violence from the losing side, and possibly some revenge violence from the other. But it won't escalate to full blown civil war. Not right away, atleast. In the end, the situation will be decided by who takes the senate. The senate is more important then the presidential race, arguably.
I agree about the Senate and the Supreme Court. He has a few other tricks up his sleeves, where he could cause calamity on election day or while they are counting the votes like Roger Stone did in Florida during Bush/ Gore fiasco by encouraging militias and trump supporters to cause problems, and his plans with his legal challenges but I seriously doubt anything stupid enough to have stated literally using US or State military against one another. All these crazy militias OTOH are a wild card though.
 

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lil devils x

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For fuck sakes if you really want Trump to leave, then just do a general strike, it's not complicated.
But a bunch of tree huggers, salsa dancers and gogo bands partying there is far more entertaining.
 

Dalisclock

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I have to think the Left intends to steal the election.
Source please.


Biden isn't even campaigning and when he did, no one cared. No one came to his rallies.
He's not having packed massive rallies in the middle of a pandemic. Which is a sign he's taking it seriously and not trying to endanger peoples health for his own adoration.

Like a responsible person and not an egomanaic.


I cannot imagine him winning.
Ask 48.2% of voters how they felt in 2016 about Trumps chances. Imagination is irrevlent.

My thought is it will be like the 2018 Arizona Senate election where the Democrats continued to vote for about a week after the Republican won so they could steal the election. https://www.npr.org/2018/11/12/667214148/democrat-kyrsten-sinema-wins-arizona-senate-seat
That article said votes were counted for a week, not votes were cast for a week. Accuracy in counting is a good thing.
 
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