Epic President Dumps On Used Games, Piracy

Simski

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Nimbus said:
Simski said:
Never the less, 360 piracy is most likely alot less of a concern than PC piracy.
Why?
Because 360 piracy is firstly terribly risky as it gets you banned if you're caught, secondly it's much more complicated than regular PC piracy.

Also I doubt they'd switch from Microsoft to Sony just like that.
He wasn't talking about piracy. In fact, only one paragraph even had a mention of piracy.
What?

Are you talking about OP or the guy I was responding to?
The guy I was responding to complained about piracy so I responded with why I believe they don't care much about it.

I don't know anything about gamestop because we don't have them around here,
I responded to his question of "Why don't they just change it to ps3" with the simple statement that, it would be of of them to just leave Microsoft like that.

And I didn't respond to the last phrase because it was a mere opinion that I rather ignore.

Now... what the hell are you talking about?
 

SenseOfTumour

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Steam does seem to be the way forward, such tiny distribution costs compared with packaging, burning the discs, paying for SECUROM or other DRM designed to stop people buying your game anyway, getting it to stores, then months later, dealing with the returns, scratched discs, misprinted cd keys, etc.

With Steam its 'Here's $30, oh my new game is on the way, and it'll just work'.

I know there's people still anti steam, but when it comes to distributing a game cheaply and low risk, surely its one of the better ways forward.

I have to ask, why do we only hear from the huge successful companies about how piracy is destroying them, seems smaller companies are too busy knocking out good cheap games that work and just taking the money, instead of complaining that they're losing 95% of a mystical sum of money that never existed.

Introversion, the Darwinia guys, they KNOW Darwinia and Uplink and the like got the hell pirated out of them, but they still sold, and once it hit steam, sold well, too. They've probably lost tens of thousands to piracy, but they prefer to look to the sales, not the imagined losses. They're not happy about piracy, who would be , about having your creation stolen from you, but they're still queueing up more to come and say the PC is their favourite platform. (Go buy Multiwinia!).

Lets not forget Popcap, Bigfish Games etc, are all doing just fine too, despite games like Bejeweled and Peggle being on just about every PC in the world. In fact because of that, because if 1% of people who had played peggle paid for it, they're doing ok for cash! ( was a masterstroke , slipping it into the Orange Box, too.)

Yes, piracy hurts the industry, yes piracy loses the games company money, I agree.

To stop releasing games on PC because piracy happens is like disconnecting from the internet forever because you got rickrolled. There's bad things out there, there's lot more good stuff, like honest game players who want to buy your game (but maybe don't want to have to move into EA's offices and play it with a security guard watching when they do want to play it).

As for second hand PC games, I'd be amazed if more than say, 5% of all PC games see a second person. What they seem to be getting at is 'here, look at this new game, try it out while you're here, mate' and going 'omg he's played it, he owes us $50'.

Also, as the above guy stated, demos, don't hide it behind the hype and expect us to hand over sizable piles of cash blind, let us see what we're getting.
 

SenseOfTumour

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Also, recently.

On Steam, weekend offer.

GTA1,2,3,Vice City, San Andreas all together, about £20.

That's how you deal with old games that you don't want to see end up in the second hand market.

I think the second hand market can be good anyway, someone picking up up 3, or VC, for example, may well pick up 4 for their new machine.

I think this could be the first steps down a path to no big games coming out for PC from the big publishers, unless they can Steam them.

Of course, this could be a blessing in disguise, do we really need a team of 50 people working on sound in a game? Do we need to spend $10 million making a single game?
 

Andraste

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I see a lot of people saying the Crytek number is wrong. Did Crytek not give that number out? If Crytek doesn't know their own usage numbers, who does? Why are we doubting them?
 

Anton P. Nym

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Andraste said:
I see a lot of people saying the Crytek number is wrong. Did Crytek not give that number out? If Crytek doesn't know their own usage numbers, who does? Why are we doubting them?
Because wishing will make it so.

Most of those objecting strenuously are heavily-invested in PC gaming themselves and don't like any argument used that doesn't reward PC use. Specious or not, these guys are going to challenge anything that challenges their hobby.

Conversely both Crytek and Epic have vested interests in making piracy loom large, so I can understand some skepticism of their use of figures without some impartial references used to fact-check.

-- Steve
 

Sirisaxman

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All I have to say to Epic and companies like them who complain, "stop whingin' and cheer the fuck up!"

Cookie for anyone who gets the reference, chocolate chip if you know the actor or character.
 

Calamity

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Anton P. Nym said:
Andraste said:
I see a lot of people saying the Crytek number is wrong. Did Crytek not give that number out? If Crytek doesn't know their own usage numbers, who does? Why are we doubting them?

Conversely both Crytek and Epic have vested interests in making piracy loom large, so I can understand some skepticism of their use of figures without some impartial references used to fact-check.

-- Steve
Mostly this, It sounds far-fetched.

Who knows? Maybe it's true and I'm underestimating the number of pirates. I'm open to the possibility, but I expect some facts or data to back it up, not just another statistic put out by a company that has something to gain by making piracy look bigger then it is.
 

TheBlackKnight

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Nov 3, 2008
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Andraste said:
I see a lot of people saying the Crytek number is wrong. Did Crytek not give that number out? If Crytek doesn't know their own usage numbers, who does? Why are we doubting them?
Hmm giving out a number is good; Telling how they came up with that number is even better; I mean how did they measure that?

On a side note::
I can't wait until someone comes up with the idea "Games as services"
 

mokes310

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DirkBelig said:
Epic Games has become the Metallica of game developers - it doesn't matter what the actual quality of their product is, they've become such pompous jackholes that we wish a Brumak would sodomize them just to shut them the fook up!

There are two ways for game devs to act and Epic is doing the wrong one. The first is to treat the gamer as a valued customer to whom they are dedicated in providing a quality product, assured in the knowledge that they will be appreciated for their good will and rewarded with purchases. The other way is to treat the gamer as a thieving parasite who should be thankful that the dev is even bothering to make them something to play. Then they *****, piss and moan about how people are trying to save a few bucks by buying used and that they DESERVE that money, too. "GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!", is the motto of these tools who resent retailers and gamers for wanting to make or save a buck.
Agreed.
 

Sirisaxman

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Khell_Sennet post=7.76693.915066 said:
I've already said this in another thread of similar subjects, but game developers/distributors don't seem to grasp consumer rights or what they're really selling.

A single purchased copy of any game, can be played by as many people as the purchaser will allow on his computer. The purchase legally entitles one game to be played, and has no restrictions on how many people, only that the one copy can only allow one person at a time, except in cases of hotseat multiplayer.

Therefore, if 100,000 people bought Gears of War 2, and 200,000 people played it, only 100,000 X-Boxes were running the disc at any given time, so there's no legal or even ethical grounds to gripe. There is no obligation that everyone who plays owns their own copy, even less so on consoles. These fuckwits in the games industry honestly believe a family with three children should be required to buy three copies of each game if all the kids are to play it, and that my friends, is not a reasonable thing to do, and the law backs our side of that situation.
For now...

Hopefully game companies won't be able to sponsor legislation to change all that in the future, but you never know.
 

Rankao

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Sirisaxman said:
Khell_Sennet post=7.76693.915066 said:
Therefore, if 100,000 people bought Gears of War 2, and 200,000 people played it, only 100,000 X-Boxes were running the disc at any given time, so there's no legal or even ethical grounds to gripe. There is no obligation that everyone who plays owns their own copy, even less so on consoles. These fuckwits in the games industry honestly believe a family with three children should be required to buy three copies of each game if all the kids are to play it, and that my friends, is not a reasonable thing to do, and the law backs our side of that situation.
For now...

Hopefully game companies won't be able to sponsor legislation to change all that in the future, but you never know.
Keep pirating so that they won't have the money to lobby our politicians!

But then again the politicians might be angry at the American people for not allowing the game companies to lobby to them.
 

mike1921

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GTA1,2,3,Vice City, San Andreas all together, about £20.

That's how you deal with old games that you don't want to see end up in the second hand market.
Thank you!

Also, is steam legal?
Then they *****, piss and moan about how people are trying to save a few bucks by buying used and that they DESERVE that money, too. "GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!", is the motto of these tools who resent retailers and gamers for wanting to make or save a buck.
The thing is that, when we save a buck, they get nothing. I don't know how much a game maker gets from a new sale of a 60$ game,but even if it's 10$, we're saving 5$ if we're buying from their primary retailer and they lose 10, is that fair?
 

szaleniec1000

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SenseOfTumour said:
Introversion, the Darwinia guys, they KNOW Darwinia and Uplink and the like got the hell pirated out of them, but they still sold, and once it hit steam, sold well, too. They've probably lost tens of thousands to piracy, but they prefer to look to the sales, not the imagined losses. They're not happy about piracy, who would be , about having your creation stolen from you, but they're still queueing up more to come and say the PC is their favourite platform. (Go buy Multiwinia!).
Exactly. It's the glass half empty (X people have pirated our game, we've lost X times whatever we get from a sale in money) we see from many developers and publishers, vs. the glass half full (Y people have bought our game, we've made a profit and can pay our shareholders, stay in business and make more games, it's all good) we see from what I believe to be a better class of companies.

Edit: see this blog post [http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/303512/Piracy_PC_Gaming] by the CEO of Stardock, a company very much in the second category.
 

Asehujiko

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Here's some logic reasoning why crytek pulled their number out of their ass: Crysis sold 3 million copies at that time. It was estimated that there were about 10 million computers able to run crysis at that time. Then they announced that the ratio for pirates/buyers was 20:1. Ergo, there would be 60 million pirates. Now, with 3 million legal buyers and alot of computers not used for games, that means that there's less then 6 million users who had the chance to pirate it. If crytek's numbers were true, that would mean that every pirate downloaded 10 copies of the game on average. Which is simply put, bullshit.

Even if everybody able to pirate the game did so, which i highly doubt, crytek would have inflated their statistics by 900%.
 

Archon

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I think many of you believe that the game publishers aren't releasing games for PC out of spite - because some people pirate games, they won't release them at all, even though it would be profitable to do so.

I don't think that's the case at all. Game developers and publishers are in this to make money. If they could make money from releasing a game on a platform *they would*. If they aren't making PC versions, it's because they don't think it will be profitable to do so.

Epic and others clearly believe that the cost to bring their game to PC must be less than their expected revenue from PC.

That tells me something has gone wrong for PC gaming, because we have fewer PC games being made today than in the past, and PC has gone from the cutting-edge platform for AAA games to a secondary platform for many genres. Yet game-capable PCs are more widely available than ever, and PC games are easier to install than ever before (I remember having to make boot-disks for Tie Fighter, for god's sake).

The studios seem to think that it is piracy. If it's not piracy, what do you guys think it is?
 

Angron

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o, so this isnt the first time ive argued with a game company about piacy, buti have a good reason this time...

piracy, as it was stated in someone elses interesting post, is worse on consoles than PC...
secondly, i no at least 3 people with all 100 people on thei xbox live frineds list who had gears 2 about a week before release, so, after that epic....tell me that piracy is just a PC problem...
 

destroyer2k

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I have a idea for him, what if epic would do a really god port for pc? Wouldn't pc gamers than buy more product from them (like unreal tournament 3 it was not a god pc game, it was very bad if I compare to unreal 2004). And second if he has a issue with resealing games, well look epic steam doesn't resale that much. So you just have to make game that has to be activated on steam.

A really don't get it what epic think they are first they don't do god games for pc, and then he complain about something that could be done easy for resales.