Escape to the Movies: Maleficent - An Unusual Fairy Tale of Revenge

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Nurb

Cynical bastard
Dec 9, 2008
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Bob... I think you're reading too much into things if you're taking away a "forgive rape/abuse" lesson in there somewhere. Or you need to stop getting opinions from tumblr XD

It's just a bad attempt at the modern trend of dark, gritty fairy tales and giving bad characters a "good" background.
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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Ickabod said:
The thing that gets me about this movie is, Who is it's audience?

It's not for kids or families
It's not for teenagers
It's not for males craving CGI transformers type of action
I doubt it's going to appeal towards women (not being one I couldn't say for sure, but wife has no interest).
It's not an art house type of movie

So I'm really asking, who is this movie made for?
People who grew up with Disney and are older now
People who like dark fairy tales.
People who just like this style of movie.
People who like subversive takes on villains which is fairly popular at the moment.

This question always confuses me. Like there are only 8 or so groups of people who watch movies and they only watch one type? not everything needs to neatly divided into a specific demographic.
 

Windcaler

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Nov 7, 2010
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I havnt seen the movie yet (I think Im going to wait for dvd) but it seems to me that the second act could have been her transformation from revenge fantasy to truely evil character. The idea that came to my mind was going with the rape revenge story at the start and then have her seek out even greater power to use against the kingdom (the dragon form comes to mind). However going into a traditional power corrupts story along with it. That way it would be the humans that start her down a path of arguably justified revenge but she could essentially fall from grace as she takes her revenge to far and becomes an irreedemable villain in her own right. It would also allow for other characters to be competent in the story and turn her into an even greater badass.

That seems like a much more interesting story to me
 

Sylocat

Sci-Fi & Shakespeare
Nov 13, 2007
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Okay, I just got back from the movie. I sort of understand why it got mixed reviews, as reviewing this movie will be a loaded topic, but I completely loved it. I disagree about the redemption arc not working (though, as an avid watcher of Once Upon a Time and a fan of Frozen... and next season of OUaT I'm gonna be watching them both at once YES YES YES... what was I talking about? Oh right... anyway, thanks to OUaT, I did see the key twist coming a mile away). The three fairies were the most annoying part of the movie, and I'm glad they got comparatively little screentime, though it did leave me wondering where they were during several of Aurora's scenes, not that I objected to their absence.

Of course, I'm a sucker for bold, confrontational works that genuinely feel risky and ambitious. This is a movie that goes off the rails and does its own thing, and for all its flaws (rushed pacing, some stilted dialogue, the annoying fairies), one thing I can't accuse it of is lacking creativity and purpose. It challenges you, and I like a challenge.

I actually think the film could have been longer. I hope there's a Director's Cut or something at some point, both for additional development and because this movie has some of the most stunning art design I've seen in a blockbuster in eons and I'd like to see more of it. Oh yes, did I mention that this movie is absolutely gorgeous?
 

Sylocat

Sci-Fi & Shakespeare
Nov 13, 2007
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McGuinty1 said:
Deathfish15 said:
The only part of "rape" was about the male nurse in the first movie that apparently had sex with her and other coma victims (he got what he deserved by having his head smashed in with the door).
He also got what he deserved by being machine-gunned and then given a coup-de-grace headshot by Walter White last year.
Someone besides me who noticed the actor connection! Yay!
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Jofe said:
Sounds interesting. Though from what Bob says it looks like the movie would be better without the whole second act. Like it should have ended with the start of the original (well the Disney version) Sleeping Beauty. You know, she arrives to the castle in the middle of the celebration gets close to baby Aurora and credits roll. You already know what's going to happen and there's nothing more to say.
I haven't seen it yet, but from the things I've read they wanted to end things on a fairly high note, so the idea is that the second act is needed to set up her attempts at redemption. The idea being that Maleficent is bad, but had reasons to be, and eventually gets perspective and tries to set things as right as she can. The interpretation I've been hearing is less that she's supposed to be charmed by Aurora, but the realization that she's hurting innocents which she see's through her.

Or to put it into perspective, Bob talks about her losing her wings as an analogy to rape. If she had pretty much stormed in and done terrible things to him and his armies directly, that would have been it. She could have then sort of gone back to defending the forests and so on. Justice would be served. However when she takes it to the extent of "I'm going to declare myself queen of all evil, and take revenge on the entire kingdom, and multiple generations of this family" that's sort of going too far and she eventually realize it.

Sort of like how I was raped by an older kid while in residential facilities as I've mentioned before. Opposing the gay rights movement is one thing, as would tracking this guy down if I ever divulged his identity. On the other hand if I started setting bombs during gay rights parades that would be taking it too far. Maleficent lacked this perspective, but sort of gained it in the context of this story. Not a great analogy (and no I'm not going to argue it and derail the thread) but it's a personal way of expressing it.

I'll probably see it eventually, and find out how close what I'm hearing is. Honestly though unlike Bob I'm not entirely sure that this was that huge a risk for Disney as they seem to have been interested in doing darker stuff and subverting a lot of their tropes in general. Not to mention that they probably noticed the success of things like "Once Upon A Time" and despite it's initial failure how "The Tenth Kingdom" gained a sort of cult following, to say nothing of "Wicked", "Tin Man", and other material. Disney probably put a lot of thought into this move, and it was carefully premeditated, they aren't exactly on the bleeding edge of a trend that's been going on for a long time now. What's more with the way the political winds are blowing Disney has been trying to get away from it's "traditional American values" reputation and try and walk a line that will get them the most money with the least criticism. Back in the days of "Uncle Walt" where Disney tried to stay away from anything remotely controversial and keep everything upbeat, friendly, and positively conservative, it's leaned increasingly towards "anything for money" and even maintains alternate labels (I believe Miramax and Dimension might be owned by Disney for example, I don't remember their exact labels, but I'm tired) in order to produce more adult movies, including very violent, edgy, movies and horror fare. It's perhaps most surprising that they did this under the Disney label as opposed to using another one of the heads of their hydra to minimize risk.
 

maxben

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Jun 9, 2010
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Uriel_Hayabusa said:
Bob's review convinced me to check it out just for the hell of it. This movie sounds like such a crazy idea that I can't help but want to see it with my own eyes.

Oh, and I don't think Jafar would be the ideal candidate for a revisionist retelling; I think it could work for Scar or the villain from Frozen, though. Maybe Gaston as well.
Ooh, I like this idea. Turn the Lion King's Mufasa into a Hitler style figure and start the film with the racist Hyena genocide and expulsion. Scar is the horrified hero who tries to protect them because he understands the role of scavengers in the circle of life and does not believe, like the rest of the lions, that they are dirty creatures that undermine the natural order by their very existence.

I would totally see that!
 

leviadragon99

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Jun 17, 2010
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"the lovechild of Mae West and Vegeta... on bath salts"

Dammit Bob, now I actually kind of want to see this movie for that performance alone...
 

leviadragon99

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Uriel_Hayabusa said:
Bob's review convinced me to check it out just for the hell of it. This movie sounds like such a crazy idea that I can't help but want to see it with my own eyes.

Oh, and I don't think Jafar would be the ideal candidate for a revisionist retelling; I think it could work for Scar or the villain from Frozen, though. Maybe Gaston as well.
I could see Scar... but Gaston would be a little redundant as he's already a subversion of a heroic archetype to show the uncomfortably regressive and possessive machismo that can come with it, plus he's already an impressively nuanced antagonist, not quite a villain, but someone so enamoured with their own self-image of the hero that they'll do monstrous things out of ignorance and a sense of entitlement to the woman he sees as a prize.

Beauty and the Beast is all about things not being quite what they appear on the surface, and if you reverse that and retell it with flipped morality, then it's just another dime-a-dozen tale of a heroic man defeating a monstrous creature and getting the damsel as prize, yawn. Or at best, a story of the "villain" winning.

Likewise, Frozen was also a revisionist retelling, casting the snow queen not as destructive villain for the sake of villainy, but someone forced to hide their true nature and unwittingly causing harm to others because her parents mistook repression for self control, the villains in that are more banal and arguably more realistic than an ice-magi out to lock a kingdom in eternal winter just because.

We have a slimy ignorant businessman all too keen to lash out at a perceived threat to his trade routes, and a spoiled noble looking to secure his own kingdom by playing at being prince charming, if we reverse that... then it's just another prince charming against another maleficent in the original Disney take on Sleeping Beauty, which is a story that's already been told many, many times.

That's the point of these revisionist reversals, to tell new stories because the old ones are getting rather worn out, and indeed, have some unfortunate or downright unpleasant undertones. the fact that this particular retelling stumbled into unfortunate implications of its own is a rather cruel irony.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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Damn. Angelina Jolie is still pretty damn hot. I have always liked Angie. And I'm glad to see her in a good movie again. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, Tomb Raider was awesome. Probably the only good VG to movie adaptation.
 

VonBrewskie

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Apr 9, 2009
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Mae West, Vegeta, bath salts. Got it. Color me more than interested. I was going to see this anyway because Sleeping Beauty is my favorite Disney movie, but damn. This sounds awesomely bizarre. Great review Bob. Thanks man.
 

Keith Fraser

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Mar 12, 2012
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Just got back from seeing this and boy, Bob wasn't wrong about the veiled rape imagery or about how the movie is a crazy but likeable mess. Overall I really enjoyed it - though thematically it treads similar ground to Frozen, it works well as more than just a deliberately iconoclastic deconstruction of fairy tales. (And it is quite breathtakingly iconoclastic in places.) Acting-wise, Angelina Jolie is quite maleficently magnificent, and Elle Fanning was obviously genetically engineered to be a live-action Disney princess. Sharlto Copley's dodgy Scottish accent unfortunately distracts from his performance, and the two child actors in the opening were...less than brilliant. The main thing I thought would have improved the movie is 30-50% less dialogue, especially the narration - it would pretty much work as a silent film. Visually it's wonderful and creates the right atmosphere - the rather idiot-proof narration and dialogue distract a bit from this.

Also, ironically, I thought that the film made the King into a rather similar figure to what Maleficent was in the original - an antagonist whose backstory and motivations aren't really shown (though they're at least hinted at). (Personally, given the choice between definitely shacking up with Fairy!Angelina Jolie and going back to Medievalland for a very long shot at maybe being king, I know which I'd pick, but maybe that's just me. :p )

Finally, I perceived some very strong parallels with not Kill Bill, but James Cameron's Avatar (with about 95% less Mighty Whitey). A bunch of harmonious-living nonhuman/magical beings in a pretty land of technicolour vegetation, flying creatures and vertiginous rocky spires get menaced by greedy humans and their metal weapons and machinery...a human with no knowledge of the nonhuman world comes to befriend them and learn about them...a female nonhuman comes to love the human...said female nonhuman saves the human while they're in an unconscious state and beats the shouty human villain in a final battle...?
 

lukesparow

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Jan 20, 2014
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Welp, makes you wonder why they didn't just opt to make a completely new film.
That way they could've told the very intriguing story they were obviously going for without, you know, butchering the original film.
 

maninahat

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Nov 8, 2007
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So it's like a live action Kirikou and the Sorceress? I could get behind that. But then again I could watch Kirikou and the Sorceress again, because that movie was the tits (quite literally).
 

BehattedWanderer

Fell off the Alligator.
Jun 24, 2009
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Uriel_Hayabusa said:
Bob's review convinced me to check it out just for the hell of it. This movie sounds like such a crazy idea that I can't help but want to see it with my own eyes.

Oh, and I don't think Jafar would be the ideal candidate for a revisionist retelling; I think it could work for Scar or the villain from Frozen, though. Maybe Gaston as well.
Neither of those really sound that appealing, though. It works with Maleficent because she is literally just the Evil Queen, and has no expressed motivation. To justify her megalomaniacal swath of destruction would take something pretty interesting, but the other villains already have really transparent motives. The Lion King is just your average, run of the mill power struggle wherein brother kills brother to acquire the throne. Hans outright states his reasons for it (he's too far down the line of succession and marrying into another throne is the fastest way to get what he wants without having to go in and axe all of those who would take the throne before him by law and tradition), and the Duke of Weselton is just looking to upend the trading balance on its end in his favor instead of Arrendale's. Neither of those make for a particularly telling revamp. Gaston is a flat, two-note moron, invested only in how much people love him and in maintaining his vision of the world. Belle didn't love him at first sight like every other man, woman, child, cat, dog, and singing bird, so his entire relationship with her is to break her into admitting she considers him the pinnacle of male fantasy as every one else does, and the Beast fits perfectly into the category of things he feels he needs to kill to show off how much of an incredibly powerful and skilled hunter he is. There's not a lot of depth here, so mining these for materials for a gritty reverse POV movie would be relatively pointless. There's nothing to gain by watching Gaston have a series of unfulfilling, presumably abusive romances with other women, be admired by men, and then say how his need to kill the Beast was to offer self-validation. It works (kinda) in this case because we get to see what it is that lead to the unflinching, unrelenting, unapologetic destruction that Maleficent wanted to inflict, and it offers and attempt of justifying irrational behavior.
 

Endocrom

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Apr 6, 2009
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Next Jafar? nah, gotta do these in order. I'm thinking "Mim" a gritty origin story of how a powerful sorceress became the bitter, sadistic old spinster playing solitaire in a shack in the woods from "The Sword In The Stone".
 

Uriel_Hayabusa

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leviadragon99 said:
Uriel_Hayabusa said:
I don't think Jafar would be the ideal candidate for a revisionist retelling; I think it could work for Scar or the villain from Frozen, though. Maybe Gaston as well.
[...] Gaston would be a little redundant as he's already a subversion of a heroic archetype to show the uncomfortably regressive and possessive machismo that can come with it

...

Likewise, Frozen was also a revisionist retelling[...]

...

That's the point of these revisionist reversals, to tell new stories because the old ones are getting rather worn out, and indeed, have some unfortunate or downright unpleasant undertones.
I don't see how you can't have subversions of subversions. In fact, I think a skilled enough writer can craft a story that hearkens back to "classics" while ironing out the unfortunate implications instead of going full-on "The nice guy is actually a douchebag"/"The love interest dies"/*insert "darker"/"more subversive" twist here*
 

BoredRolePlayer

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Nov 9, 2010
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Scarim Coral said:
Wow I'm slowed. I didn't realise the wings cut off was a rape subtext which I guess reinforce that I did felt the reinterpret of Sleepy Beauty is kind of like political correction or rather updated with modern society over old fairy tale
Ok so the Prince kiss did not wake her up thinking he is the "true love kiss". It make sense in today views since while he met and is attracted to her, he does not know her alot.
I felt Melficent affection for Aurora was not genuine thanks to that fairy wish "she will be loved by all" which I guess include Maleficent herself.
Yeah the three faries annoyed me in the film since they were pretty much the three stooges and who ideas was it to let them raise the child thinking they are good carer material just cos they got magic?
Overall I did thought the film was alright and had no expectation (it was the only decent film after Godzilla and X-men and I'm not too keen on Edge of Tomorrow) to it as I had pretty much forgotten the actual story.
I was thinking the same thing with the wish of love by all. But with that ANYone could have woken her up honestly :/