Europeans and small talk

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Why do I get the feeling you want to live in the "Who Framed Rodger Rabbit" world?

Only when I go off my meds. And then it's mostly voices that I can't remember exactly what they say. Though I do remember my mouth dry and having stood next a kettle in the corner of the kitchen for what must have been 30+ minutes. So I feel like I must have been talking to something, but I can't put the conversation together properly in my head.

Must have been a pretty intense debate though.

Actually a sane part of me wishes I could live in Toon land. Stuff makes more sense, when you think about it. Cars should be self driving, require no petrol, and no matter how horrific the injury people can just be brought back with pseudomagic ... and all guns should have smart munitions options for proper target acquisition rather than ... well... some of the more grievous publicised recipients of bullets ...

 

[omega 616]

Now, this is going to seem rude and I would like to preface this by saying that I have only met one American, a Texan to be exact.

Anyway, from TV and what I know about the US, it seems very ... fake? Like "have a nice day, sir/maam!" are you really wishing me a nice day or are you doing it 'cos your corporate over lords want you to? Or waitresses/waiters, are they nice or are they nice 'cos they want a bigger tip?

Maybe it's just me being cynical but I figure if everybody is being nice all of the time, they aren't nice but are fake.

I usually find people who talk to me annoying, there is no reason to talk to me ... like I remember a run of people asking me about train information (I have to take the train to work), I don't work for the rail company but they thought I did for some reason. Why they felt the need to ask somebody anything, when there are multiple LED boards all with all the information you could ever want.

I always have earphones in as well, so while I am waiting I sometimes get that old dear, who wants to make idle chat about the weather or some shit and I just want to tell them to shut up but can't.

Maybe it's we are a cold hearted, stranger danger kind of people or maybe it has something to do with the American pharmaceutical industry ... just to make wild accusations and stabs in the dark

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Now, this is going to seem rude and I would like to preface this by saying that I have only met one American, a Texan to be exact.

Anyway, from TV and what I know about the US, it seems very ... fake? Like "have a nice day, sir/maam!" are you really wishing me a nice day or are you doing it 'cos your corporate over lords want you to? Or waitresses/waiters, are they nice or are they nice 'cos they want a bigger tip?

Maybe it's just me being cynical but I figure if everybody is being nice all of the time, they aren't nice but are fake.

I usually find people who talk to me annoying, there is no reason to talk to me ... like I remember a run of people asking me about train information (I have to take the train to work), I don't work for the rail company but they thought I did for some reason. Why they felt the need to ask somebody anything, when there are multiple LED boards all with all the information you could ever want.

I always have earphones in as well, so while I am waiting I sometimes get that old dear, who wants to make idle chat about the weather or some shit and I just want to tell them to shut up but can't.

Maybe it's we are a cold hearted, stranger danger kind of people or maybe it has something to do with the American pharmaceutical industry ... just to make wild accusations and stabs in the dark

Of course there is a difference between people being at work and people not being paid to be nice to you. People at work are being paid to be nice, yes because that is a part of " customer service". People usually do not respond well to people telling them to piss off while they are trying to buy something from them so yes, they have " work policies" in regards to what they expect from their customer service representatives.

People who are not at work though can be as nice or as rude as they like, and yes you will encounter both here. People here though are usually genuinely nice for the most part, not just "faking it". Others, will tell you to f off if you even look at them. Some people are just nice most the time, though and no, not faking it and thinking bad thoughts instead. LOL

Yes, thinking that people are faking it and have ulterior motives is quite a bit paranoid. Not everyone thinks horrible things about others all the time. If you think Americans are too happy, you would really be freaked out by Hopi, who are rarely sad and always genuinely smiling and come by your home every evening to make sure you had dinner and everything is okay. LOL

 

[Tayh]

Yes, it does happen in other countries. And yes I think everyone should be treated like a special snowflake, everyone should be checked on in the community to make sure they have what they need for the night, everyone is family. IF someone is sick, or unable to cook themselves dinner that night, who helps them if they live alone? How do you know if your neighbors need help that evening if you don't talk to them? To me that is all part of being a community as well. If we didn't talk to our neighbors daily, we would not know when they need help.

That does actually happen in the rest of the world, too. Although, in Denmark we have stuff like free healthcare so that people don't have to suffer just because they can't afford treatment.
You seem to be rather set in your belief about "European" culture, though, regardless of all the people saying otherwise in this thread.

To reiterate, just because we don't mingle with strangers, doesn't mean we're heartless beasts who care little for the people in our vicinity.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Yes, it does happen in other countries. And yes I think everyone should be treated like a special snowflake, everyone should be checked on in the community to make sure they have what they need for the night, everyone is family. IF someone is sick, or unable to cook themselves dinner that night, who helps them if they live alone? How do you know if your neighbors need help that evening if you don't talk to them? To me that is all part of being a community as well. If we didn't talk to our neighbors daily, we would not know when they need help.

That does actually happen in the rest of the world, too. Although, in Denmark we have stuff like free healthcare so that people don't have to suffer just because they can't afford treatment.
You seem to be rather set in your belief about "European" culture, though, regardless of all the people saying otherwise in this thread.

To reiterate, just because we don't mingle with strangers, doesn't mean we're heartless beasts who care little for the people in our vicinity.

Of course I don't think Europeans are heartless beasts, far from that. In fact, I have repeatedly stated ( on these forums) that The US needs to learn from what the Scandinavian nations have figured out in regards to healthcare, Justice system, homelessness and poverty. The world can learn from the dutch systems, as they have figured out ways to solve many of these issues so well they are closing prisons rather than having them overflowing like they are in the US. I view the German education system as far superior to most with their use of specializations and many can learn from them as well. None of this has to do with how people in the community interact with one another on a daily basis though. Most cultures have strengths and weakness and can learn from those around them to improve. Even thinking " I don't care about you" to people you don't even know is overly harsh, and it does not make one a "beast" to recognize that. LOL

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Yeah, Canadian here, and I find it really weird how Americans treat small talk. People here tend to keep to themselves unless there's something significant or notable to talk about (Such as a pair of guys having just snorted cocaine in the middle of the train). Well, usually. If you're an attractive woman, there are guys will ignore every sign that you're busy doing something and don't want to be bothered to try and strike up a conversation with you. You can have headphones on and have your face buried in a book, and they'll ignore every hint you make that you don't want to be hit on.

I don't really get the appeal. I love starting off my days slowly and calmly reading a book on the train. When some stranger decides to interrupt me out of nowhere because they're bored it throws a wrench into that and forces me to be devote all my attention to making polite and uninteresting conversation with someone who I probably have nothing in common with.

Then there's the fact that in a society where the social rule is to keep to yourselves, the people who do end up talking to you tend to be very strange, eccentric, bigots or an asshole. I've met several people who have psychic visions, one person who was very dissatisfied with the portrayal of magic in Harry Potter, as it is nothing like real magic (Which she informed me she'd done on numerous occasions). I've seen a guy in his late thirties, immediately after fighting with his girlfriend on the phone, go over and chat up some 15 year old girls, complaining to his friend afterwards that they were underage. Had a guy out of nowhere make a joke about how I must be gay because I have long hair.

I actually can't think of a single positive interaction I've had with a complete stranger deciding to talk to me. They've all been somewhere between neutral and negative. I can't imagine what it'd be like if I had to be barraged with that constantly. Maybe it'd be more appealing for someone who thrives on constant social interaction, but it just saps the energy out of me, particularly when it's forced small talk.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Yeah, Canadian here, and I find it really weird how Americans treat small talk. People here tend to keep to themselves unless there's something significant or notable to talk about (Such as a pair of guys having just snorted cocaine in the middle of the train). Well, usually. If you're an attractive woman, there are guys will ignore every sign that you're busy doing something and don't want to be bothered to try and strike up a conversation with you. You can have headphones on and have your face buried in a book, and they'll ignore every hint you make that you don't want to be hit on.

I don't really get the appeal. I love starting off my days slowly and calmly reading a book on the train. When some stranger decides to interrupt me out of nowhere because they're bored it throws a wrench into that and forces me to be devote all my attention to making polite and uninteresting conversation with someone who I probably have nothing in common with.

Then there's the fact that in a society where the social rule is to keep to yourselves, the people who do end up talking to you tend to be very strange, eccentric, bigots or an asshole. I've met several people who have psychic visions, one person who was very dissatisfied with the portrayal of magic in Harry Potter, as it is nothing like real magic (Which she informed me she'd done on numerous occasions). I've seen a guy in his late thirties, immediately after fighting with his girlfriend on the phone, go over and chat up some 15 year old girls, complaining to his friend afterwards that they were underage. Had a guy out of nowhere make a joke about how I must be gay because I have long hair.

I actually can't think of a single positive interaction I've had with a complete stranger deciding to talk to me. They've all been somewhere between neutral and negative. I can't imagine what it'd be like if I had to be barraged with that constantly. Maybe it'd be more appealing for someone who thrives on constant social interaction, but it just saps the energy out of me, particularly when it's forced small talk.

Yea, I talk to people daily and have never had someone talk to me about psychic visions, or anything like that. I did have an older British woman with the mouth of a sailor start talking to me about her distorted sex dreams out of nowhere once. That was really odd because in the UK, people didn't come up to talk to you, but when they are here in the US, they do and hold nothing back. LOL

I usually do not have people tell me strange things, it is usually pretty "normal". They talk about events, economy, work, home, weather, family, or jokes for the most part.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Yea, I talk to people daily and have never had someone talk to me about psychic visions, or anything like that. I did have an older British woman with the mouth of a sailor start talking to me about her distorted sex dreams out of nowhere once. That was really odd because in the UK, people didn't come up to talk to you, but when they are here in the US, they do and hold nothing back. LOL

I usually do not have people tell me strange things, it is usually pretty "normal". They talk about events, economy, work, home, weather, family, or jokes for the most part.

You've never had anyone talk to you about the paranormal? You should expand your field of experience. Nothing is as surreal as someone telling you that things like fairies are real. I think the world is better off for these people, myself.

Nothing would be more horrible if the paranormal was extended solely to organised religion ... and nobody lived lives with anything more than a mechanical understanding of the human experience. Surely there should be a 'sweet spot' for romanticism and supernaturalism that goes beyond edicts and dogma of quoting prescribed text, and something a little more human than the cold mechanics of science in an uncaring universe that cares not if we live or die.

The one thing I don't get is when someone 'normal' who works a meaningless office drudgery existence then laughs at the obviously unemployed dreamr who believes they're in communion with some form of the esoteric. The desperation is no less the same, and at least the person who believes in fairies and ignores the entire world and what it says at least has some meaning for which extends beyond the routine, no matter how self-constructed on random whimsy.

If you can't be a pursuer of truth, or an educator on the tools for truth for others, then at the very least (and perhaps best of all) you can be a dreamer. An artist of chaos against choreography. Far better than someone who simply pushes around paperwork.

I have infinitely more patience for some person that tells how the world I know is a lie, and that the imps may find me, than a lawyer in the courts or a corporate accountant telling me they're living a life worth living. Naturally one must balance public health against unchecked insanity, but surely the goal is to transform a person who believes in fairies into functional, healthy poeople who might still believe in fairies.

Not into more accountants and lawyers.

Or maybe I just don't like lawyers. Accountants I have time for, because I don't usually get fucked when I see one. Plus my current accountant is lovely. She got me a bigger refund.

 

[omega 616]

Now, this is going to seem rude and I would like to preface this by saying that I have only met one American, a Texan to be exact.

Anyway, from TV and what I know about the US, it seems very ... fake? Like "have a nice day, sir/maam!" are you really wishing me a nice day or are you doing it 'cos your corporate over lords want you to? Or waitresses/waiters, are they nice or are they nice 'cos they want a bigger tip?

Maybe it's just me being cynical but I figure if everybody is being nice all of the time, they aren't nice but are fake.

I usually find people who talk to me annoying, there is no reason to talk to me ... like I remember a run of people asking me about train information (I have to take the train to work), I don't work for the rail company but they thought I did for some reason. Why they felt the need to ask somebody anything, when there are multiple LED boards all with all the information you could ever want.

I always have earphones in as well, so while I am waiting I sometimes get that old dear, who wants to make idle chat about the weather or some shit and I just want to tell them to shut up but can't.

Maybe it's we are a cold hearted, stranger danger kind of people or maybe it has something to do with the American pharmaceutical industry ... just to make wild accusations and stabs in the dark

Of course there is a difference between people being at work and people not being paid to be nice to you. People at work are being paid to be nice, yes because that is a part of " customer service". People usually do not respond well to people telling them to piss off while they are trying to buy something from them so yes, they have " work policies" in regards to what they expect from their customer service representatives.

People who are not at work though can be as nice or as rude as they like, and yes you will encounter both here. People here though are usually genuinely nice for the most part, not just "faking it". Others, will tell you to f off if you even look at them. Some people are just nice most the time, though and no, not faking it and thinking bad thoughts instead. LOL

Yes, thinking that people are faking it and have ulterior motives is quite a bit paranoid. Not everyone thinks horrible things about others all the time. If you think Americans are too happy, you would really be freaked out by Hopi, who are rarely sad and always genuinely smiling and come by your home every evening to make sure you had dinner and everything is okay. LOL

That's the thing, in the UK at least not one single cashier or shelf stacker or anybody will say "have a nice day" or call you sir etc. We are just not that nice/fake.

I don't think people on the streets are faking it, I think they are genuine, just really annoying. They don't have to talk to me, yet they do to make meaningless conversation. Though if I think about the conversations I like to have, they are pretty meaningless as well ... so who am I to judge? I'm always talking about things that people have become entrenched in their position on, so me talking with them wont make them change their minds.

That just sounds creepy to be honest.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

Recently two southerners tried to talk to me when i was going to the store, i could not understand them

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

I'm doing my best not to get rubbed up the wrong way and sorry if I sound like I am. Can i just say, if you want to engage with a group about their culture which seems alien to you, phrasing is important. The amount of "weirds" at behaviours you didn't understand was a little disconcerting to me.

I would say that this can all come down to the extrovert will never understand the introvert, and vice-versa.

I will say though, a brief apology for bumping into a stranger is a must.

 

[Joccaren]

I got to say, honestly, its just a greater respect for personal space and privacy.

Upon seeing someone on a train, I don't assume they have nothing to do. They could be thinking about a big presentation they have to give at work, or their partner who's been cheating on them, or this great date they're going to have later in the day. They might be an introvert, and uncomfortable with other people. They might be figuring out when they can book in their next Doctor's appointment.

Why would I try to interrupt that because I'm bored? In an office building at work, when you see a co-worker working hard on a problem, do you saddle over and try talking to them because you're bored, then complain they're rude when they say they're busy? No? Same here. You don't know what someone else is doing. If they want to talk, they'll lock eyes, flash a smile, and approach you. Otherwise its assumed everyone has their own business to take care of.

Its plain respect for each other; let those who don't want to be bothered because they're uncomfortable with other people, busy thinking about something, or are otherwise engaged do what they need to do and leave them to their own devices. If you want to talk, find someone else willing to and talk to them. No one owes you a conversation because you are bored. That's just weird, the thought that I owe you, someone I've never met before and will never see again, something while you owe me nothing, just because you're bored and want to talk [And no, talking back to me isn't what you owe me - I don't want that. If you owed me anything, it'd be my own privacy]. If you want to talk to someone, pull up Facebook on your phone, go to a pub or cafe, or otherwise find someone else who wishes to converse. Don't try to force everyone around you to be your personal courtiers, hanging on your every word because you are oh so mighty and self important.

See, its seen as being more self important and arrogant here if you strike up a conversation with someone without any sort of permission. You think you're better than them, and that they owe you their time they might need for something else. They're not entitled to some down time, some peace and quiet. They must talk to you because you are bored, and you are all that matters.
Apparently things are seen different where you're from.

In general, the best path of action is to understand the local culture, and try to fit in. Respect different people, and their different approaches to life, and when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

 

[lee1287]

It's a difficult one in england, some people love it, some hate it. I always smile at someone if i make eye contact though. Though when i was in spain, i tried to talk to the cleaners and they palmed me off, as did most of the people i came into contact with, maybe it was me, aha.

 

[Saelune]

Reading the responses has been...interesting.

As an introvert with social anxiety disorder who wants to be left alone...I actually find a lot of people's reactions to small talk weird. I want to be left alone not because I want to be left alone, but because I assume any interaction is going to go bad. But really I want people to talk to me and actually be engaging and maybe lead to a friendship. Most people just don't.

If you're going to initiate small talk, make it about something relevant to the person its directed at....and something you also care about. Don't come up to me and talk about sports or weather. Don't ask me about my music or gaming device if you don't really care.

But if I'm playing Pok?mon on my 3DS, and you are playing Pok?mon on your 3DS...then maybe the small talk will become something worth while. Or if you can maybe hear my slightly too loud for my headphones music and recognize it or like it, maybe we can talk about that.

I think what bothers me about the places that avoid it altogether, is I worry I would try to actually talk to someone and basically get shot down, and since its not something I do often, it would be very disheartening.

 

[Satinavian]

If there is a tornado, or great destruction, it would be those around you digging you out of the rubble to save you. If you have a car accident, they would be the one to pull you from the wreckage and get you help.

Which is the very same thing in most European countries. We are perfectly fine with helping people who need it. The difference is we also do this for complete strangers. We don't need some prior interaction and recognice people as part of the same community.

Last time this country had a really bad flood distroying several villages and town quarters, we had tens of thousands of individual helpers travelling there to help and the big taks for the gouvernment were not so much about providing food, relief and shelter for people who can't use their houses and more about redirecting all the voluntarry help and providing heavy machinery, more tools and more sand for dikes/leeves.

When a father here was injured in car accident, the community pulled together and provided for his family so they would be able to have their heat though the winter and keep their lights on. When a neighbor's daughter had cancer they were going to lose their home so the community pitched in and saved it for them so they would not lose their home while they are trying to save their daughter.

We have socialized services for all of that. Because we don't want to only help people we know, we want that everyone in the whole country gets that kind of help when needed, even if he/she doesn't have friends or is actually a very unpleasent person who can't make/keep friends and has no family.

But if you don't talk to the people in your community and find out about their lives, you never even realize this is what is going on around you.

The no-small-talk social norm is all about "Don't talk about irrelevant things that don't really interest you and probably won't interest your conversation partner. That is a waste of time and rude." It is not "Don't talk to people if you actually need their help or have some other important thing to say." If you have a legit reason you can start a conversation and it is not rude at all. Just come to the point. We don't need to change a lot of meaningless words to establish a relationship as basis for then getting to serious topics. We skip this part.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

If there is a tornado, or great destruction, it would be those around you digging you out of the rubble to save you. If you have a car accident, they would be the one to pull you from the wreckage and get you help.

Which is the very same thing in most European countries. We are perfectly fine with helping people who need it. The difference is we also do this for complete strangers. We don't need some prior interaction and recognice people as part of the same community.

Last time this country had a really bad flood distroying several villages and town quarters, we had tens of thousands of individual helpers travelling there to help and the big taks for the gouvernment were not so much about providing food, relief and shelter for people who can't use their houses and more about redirecting all the voluntarry help and providing heavy machinery, more tools and more sand for dikes/leeves.

When a father here was injured in car accident, the community pulled together and provided for his family so they would be able to have their heat though the winter and keep their lights on. When a neighbor's daughter had cancer they were going to lose their home so the community pitched in and saved it for them so they would not lose their home while they are trying to save their daughter.

We have socialized services for all of that. Because we don't want to only help people we know, we want that everyone in the whole country gets that kind of help when needed, even if he/she doesn't have friends or is actually a very unpleasent person who can't make/keep friends and has no family.

But if you don't talk to the people in your community and find out about their lives, you never even realize this is what is going on around you.

The no-small-talk social norm is all about "Don't talk about irrelevant things that don't really interest you and probably won't interest your conversation partner. That is a waste of time and rude." It is not "Don't talk to people if you actually need their help or have some other important thing to say." If you have a legit reason you can start a conversation and it is not rude at all. Just come to the point. We don't need to change a lot of meaningless words to establish a relationship as basis for then getting to serious topics. We skip this part.

Why would anyone feel comfortable enough to tell you their child has cancer when you don't even want to get to know anything else about them? People don't "ask for help" people feel that would be imposing upon those around them, instead people just help when they can tell they need it. When someone is sick, grieving or going through a rough time, sometimes it is just nice to bring them a meal over and offer some kind words, or help them out without them even knowing you did. People here even dropped off gift cards to families in need without them even knowing where they came from. The thing is unless people are comfortable to talk to one another openly, most of the time those around them never find out they are going through hell at the time. It is the " small talk" every day, that people become comfortable enough with one another to talk about difficult things. I would never expect a family struggling or grieving to ask for help, instead you just try to do what you can for them rather than make them feel like a beggar.

If people are saying" I don't care about you, your day or anything else about you" they very well are not going to know what other's around them are going through.
THIS prevents people from knowing what others are going through:

I don't care about you, your day or your problems.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Reading the responses has been...interesting.

As an introvert with social anxiety disorder who wants to be left alone...I actually find a lot of people's reactions to small talk weird. I want to be left alone not because I want to be left alone, but because I assume any interaction is going to go bad. But really I want people to talk to me and actually be engaging and maybe lead to a friendship. Most people just don't.

If you're going to initiate small talk, make it about something relevant to the person its directed at....and something you also care about. Don't come up to me and talk about sports or weather. Don't ask me about my music or gaming device if you don't really care.

But if I'm playing Pok?mon on my 3DS, and you are playing Pok?mon on your 3DS...then maybe the small talk will become something worth while. Or if you can maybe hear my slightly too loud for my headphones music and recognize it or like it, maybe we can talk about that.

I think what bothers me about the places that avoid it altogether, is I worry I would try to actually talk to someone and basically get shot down, and since its not something I do often, it would be very disheartening.

Yea, I would hope that people wouldn't tell you to piss off if you try talking to them, and if they did you should know it is their issue, not yours. It takes a while to build up trust enough to talk about "serious matters" and usually best to start out with common interests or humor. It is better to just get to know people then you can decide whether or not you actually like them and want to become friends.

 

[Satinavian]

It is the " small talk" every day, that people become comfortable enough with one another to talk about difficult things.

That is how your culture works. We don't do this small talk and we don't use it as prerequesite for talking about serious things. Works pretty well.

The lack of small talk is not an isolated difference. Of course all the functions small talk has in your society are fullfilled differently in a less talky society. That is why we don't really miss small talk and see it as pretty superflous waste of time - it has no purpose, no benefit here.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It is the " small talk" every day, that people become comfortable enough with one another to talk about difficult things.

That is how your culture works. We don't do this small talk and we don't use it as prerequesite for talking about serious things. Works pretty well.

The lack of small talk is not an isolated difference. Of course all the functions small talk has in your society are fullfilled differently in a less talky society. That is why we don't really miss small talk and see it as pretty superflous waste of time - it has no purpose, no benefit here.

So you would feel fine just walking up and talking to a stranger about your problems? I can't imagine that it works like that.

Especially when you have others like I quoted about, that do not care about you, your day or your problems.

 

[Satinavian]

If i really need his/her help, yes. I have done so occasionally. And i have been asked by complete strangers for help and helped them in other occations. It is what decent, sensible people should do, no need to know anything about each other that has nothing to do with the problem at hand.