Europeans and small talk

[Frankster]

I was speaking of the Netherlands and Denmark specifically where I have seen this and people have told me it was common in much of Europe. The UK kinda does things a bit different than most other European nations as it is though, not just in their overly apologetic manner.

That is the thing, in the south, I don't think it is as superficial as people seem to think the small talk is. People genuinely know and care about members of their community here. When I moved in I had more than 20 people I did not know come to my door to welcome me to the neighborhood and bring me welcoming gifts. They actually are interested in getting to know each other here.

Fair enough.

And the scenario you describe of 20 ppl suddenly appearing at my door and wanting to get to know me honestly terrifies me to my core D: *social anxiety intensifies*

Maybe it's an inhibition thing or my kind of europeans just don't feel comfortable "lowering their defences" and getting personal with random strangers they don't trust yet?
Ultimately I think part of the reason one might feel small chat is superficial and insincere is because you feel you can't give "honest" responses and would appear rude and then have to default to preprogrammed ones, thus our annoyance at long drawn out chats, since we pretty much have to keep the charade going until the other party finally goes away and we can breath a sign of relief at not having to pretend to be normal anymore.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I was speaking of the Netherlands and Denmark specifically where I have seen this and people have told me it was common in much of Europe. The UK kinda does things a bit different than most other European nations as it is though, not just in their overly apologetic manner.

That is the thing, in the south, I don't think it is as superficial as people seem to think the small talk is. People genuinely know and care about members of their community here. When I moved in I had more than 20 people I did not know come to my door to welcome me to the neighborhood and bring me welcoming gifts. They actually are interested in getting to know each other here.

Fair enough.

And the scenario you describe of 20 ppl suddenly appearing at my door and wanting to get to know me honestly terrifies me to my core D: *social anxiety intensifies*

Maybe it's an inhibition thing or my kind of europeans just don't feel comfortable "lowering their defences" and getting personal with random strangers they don't trust yet?
Ultimately I think part of the reason one might feel small chat is superficial and insincere is because you feel you can't give "honest" responses and would appear rude and then have to default to preprogrammed ones, thus our annoyance at long drawn out chats, since we pretty much have to keep the charade going until the other party finally goes away and we can breath a sign of relief at not having to pretend to be normal anymore.

Yea it can throw you off when you have people coming to your house unexpected like that all the time. I finally just got used to them seeing me in my nighties because apparently they don't think 8:30 am is too early to just surprise show up to someone's house. At first thought there was some emergency like my sprinkler system was flooding something, but no they just wanted to come introduce themselves and be kind to their neighbors. Though now, I have the phone numbers of most of those around me and if something odd happens, I can call them and check on them. When my neighbor's dog got loose, I caught her dog and called her to let her know he was safe.

Growing up, that was something that was beneficial as well. When my elderly neighbor was in the hospital, a group of men broke into his home and were unloading his belongings into a van when one of our other neighbors noticed and rounded up some more men (including my Dad) and went and held them at gun point until the police arrived. Then they were able to call our neighbor's son to come out and help return his fathers belongings and make sure his home was safe. When the fields were on fire, my mother was able to call all my neighbors so they could come and help and keep their homes from burning. So yea, getting to know your neighbors is something I think most people should do. I do understand how it can be annoying though to have them stopping by unexpectedly though.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I don't know why, it just is.

Here (Norway) it is considered rude to strike up a conversation with a stranger at, say, a bus stop. Unless you are drunk.
We expect that others will not bother us unless absolutely necessary, and in return we will not bother them.

They often do not even apologize for bumping each other, where if you did that here that might start a fight for being so rude.

If I've already inconvenienced you by bumping in to you, then why would I inconvenience you further by delaying you with idle talk?
A quick nod of the head will do just fine, thank you.

So I have to wonder, how do couples meet each other if people don't talk in public to people they don't know? If guys never walked up and started talking to me, I would have never met them to date them.

Neighbors, friends of friends, the pub, the internet and so on.
I mean, people do get chatty when they drink.

As Bobular pointed out, this kind of culture makes it hell when your job requires you to approach strangers in the street.

If it were up to me it'd be a crime to approach people on the street to sell stuff.
I mean, here I am, going along and minding my own business and some random dude/dudette not only delay me, but tries to push me to buy stuff that I don't really want.

See now I think dating friends of friends is the worst idea in the history of bad ideas. If I wanted to be chased around the car by some lizard tongue creep I could at least choose who that creep is on my own without having friends tell me " he is such a great guy" ahead of time. I dunno, I have always had guys just approach me wherever I happen to be, while out shopping, walking, at events.. I usually just meet people wherever I go. When you see those same people more often, you get to know them better over time. I also think that when it is a friend of a friend, guys seem to have different expectations than when you just meet someone on your own.

 

[FalloutJack]

In the US, it is rude not to talk to people and acknowledge them around you and ignore them and keep to yourself.

Well, not exactly. I mean, if someone is talking to you, sure. But not like all the time.

As for non-talking in Europe, I'm willing to bet it's a British thing. Irish and Scottish people talk, if no one else.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

In the US, it is rude not to talk to people and acknowledge them around you and ignore them and keep to yourself.

Well, not exactly. I mean, if someone is talking to you, sure. But not like all the time.

As for non-talking in Europe, I'm willing to bet it's a British thing. Irish and Scottish people talk, if no one else.

The US is a HUGE place too, so it also depends on where you are. Actually the Brits are still more talkative than most of Europe. Finland on the other hand, for example, people will not even respond to someone talking to them and look at you like you are an alien if you ask them a question without knowing them. In the Netherlands people do not even say anything if they almost knock you down. They actually bump into each other and just ignore it even happening. It w as so weird to see that. When my friend from the Netherlands visited here, he was freaked out when a guy asked him about his pants. The guy was genuinely interested in where he got his pants and what brand they were because he liked the style and my friend thought he was trying to start a fight with him. LMAO!

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

In the US, it is rude not to talk to people and acknowledge them around you and ignore them and keep to yourself.

Well, not exactly. I mean, if someone is talking to you, sure. But not like all the time.

As for non-talking in Europe, I'm willing to bet it's a British thing. Irish and Scottish people talk, if no one else.

The US is a HUGE place too, so it also depends on where you are. Actually the Brits are still more talkative than most of Europe. Finland on the other hand, for example, people will not even respond to someone talking to them and look at you like you are an alien if you ask them a question without knowing them. In the Netherlands people do not even say anything if they almost knock you down. They actually bump into each other and just ignore it even happening. It w as so weird to see that. When my friend from the Netherlands visited here, he was freaked out when a guy asked him about his pants. The guy was genuinely interested in where he got his pants and what brand they were because he liked the style and my friend thought he was trying to start a fight with him. LMAO!

As an Australian we probably take after our English counterparts. Most Aussies have no dramas striking up a conversation with a stranger, but we also respect privacy. I usually find things evolve this way with strangers.

- You make initial eye contact then look away.
- If eye contact is made again there is a mutual nod of the head in greating / acknowledgement.
- If eye contact is made a third time you usually strike up a conversation. It would be rude not to.

If they don't make eye contact you assume they want to be left alone. When holidaying in the Pacific Islands I've noticed that every man and his dog will say hello and strike up a conversation with you if you stand still for long enough. I kind of like that.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

In the US, it is rude not to talk to people and acknowledge them around you and ignore them and keep to yourself.

Well, not exactly. I mean, if someone is talking to you, sure. But not like all the time.

As for non-talking in Europe, I'm willing to bet it's a British thing. Irish and Scottish people talk, if no one else.

The US is a HUGE place too, so it also depends on where you are. Actually the Brits are still more talkative than most of Europe. Finland on the other hand, for example, people will not even respond to someone talking to them and look at you like you are an alien if you ask them a question without knowing them. In the Netherlands people do not even say anything if they almost knock you down. They actually bump into each other and just ignore it even happening. It w as so weird to see that. When my friend from the Netherlands visited here, he was freaked out when a guy asked him about his pants. The guy was genuinely interested in where he got his pants and what brand they were because he liked the style and my friend thought he was trying to start a fight with him. LMAO!

As an Australian we probably take after our English counterparts. Most Aussies have no dramas striking up a conversation with a stranger, but we also respect privacy. I usually find things evolve this way with strangers.

- You make initial eye contact then look away.
- If eye contact is made again there is a mutual nod of the head in greating / acknowledgement.
- If eye contact is made a third time you usually strike up a conversation. It would be rude not to.

If they don't make eye contact you assume they want to be left alone. When holidaying in the Pacific Islands I've noticed that every man and his dog will say hello and strike up a conversation with you if you stand still for long enough. I kind of like that.

Aussies are far more talkative than the English though and are probably just as talkative as Americans. All the Aussies I know will have no problem chiming in on any conversation they hear taking place and do not need to know any of the people talking. Aussies more so than any other culture actually are more like they are in the southern US in regards to just talking to everyone around them and checking on their neighbors. One of my guilds has a lot of Aussies in it and they are all pretty outgoing and have no problem talking about just about anything. No subject seems to be taboo or off limits. I like that about them too. They are not as worried about " what other people think about them" and cure awkwardness with humor.

 

[FalloutJack]

In the US, it is rude not to talk to people and acknowledge them around you and ignore them and keep to yourself.

Well, not exactly. I mean, if someone is talking to you, sure. But not like all the time.

As for non-talking in Europe, I'm willing to bet it's a British thing. Irish and Scottish people talk, if no one else.

The US is a HUGE place too, so it also depends on where you are. Actually the Brits are still more talkative than most of Europe. Finland on the other hand, for example, people will not even respond to someone talking to them and look at you like you are an alien if you ask them a question without knowing them. In the Netherlands people do not even say anything if they almost knock you down. They actually bump into each other and just ignore it even happening. It w as so weird to see that. When my friend from the Netherlands visited here, he was freaked out when a guy asked him about his pants. The guy was genuinely interested in where he got his pants and what brand they were because he liked the style and my friend thought he was trying to start a fight with him. LMAO!

And then, there's France...but that's France. The US is huge, yes. I was mostly trying to say that it can be not entirely true and somewhat inconsistant.

 

[Tayh]

I don't care about you, your day or your problems. Just let me get my shopping done so I can get home, or leave me to listen to my music to pass the time while commuting.
Unless I'm specifically out for socializing, I'm not interested in vapid chitter-chatter.
Don't mistake my reservation for rudeness or arrogance, though; I'll be polite, apologise for any inconvenience or harm I've done by accident, and I don't mind offering a helping hand when people need it, but ultimately, I'm not here for your entertainment.
That's my Danish input about this topic.

As an aside, it's still funny when Americans go, "Why are (all) Europeans X?" like all of Europe is just one huge, homogeneous people.

 

[Saelune]

I don't care about you, your day or your problems. Just let me get my shopping done so I can get home, or leave me to listen to my music to pass the time while commuting.
Unless I'm specifically out for socializing, I'm not interested in vapid chitter-chatter.
Don't mistake my reservation for rudeness or arrogance, though; I'll be polite, apologise for any inconvenience or harm I've done by accident, and I don't mind offering a helping hand when people need it, but ultimately, I'm not here for your entertainment.
That's my Danish input about this topic.

As an aside, it's still funny when Americans go, "Why are (all) Europeans X?" like all of Europe is just one huge, homogeneous people.

To be fair, all people do that to everyone. How many times do people say the same about Americans? And they usually mean people from the US, and yet are confused when US people claim ownership of "American". The US is an even larger place than Europe.

 

[Tayh]

To be fair, all people do that to everyone. How many times do people say the same about Americans? And they usually mean people from the US, and yet are confused when US people claim ownership of "American". The US is an even larger place than Europe.

Well, according to google, Europe is a slightly bigger place than USA: US 9.857 million km? vs EU 10.18 million km?, with a population of 318.9 million versus 742.5 million.

 

[Satinavian]

It is not only about distance and size, it is also about national borders and language. There is not that much distance between Nevada and Sonora but i would guess, cultural differences are as big or small as those between many pairs of European nations.

As for "America" and "USA", well, most people know the difference between continents and nations very well, but it is hard to fight common usage. The same thing happened to England/Britain and (when it still existed) the USSR and Russia. One really prominent part dominates the rest in conversation and some people who do not care start using the wrong word. Also the USA doesnt lend itself very well to deriving words. Canadian, Mexican, French ... but USAian ? No US-American ? Maybe.. but still unwieldy, so it is unfortunately shortened to American.

But then the English language has still "Indian" for two very different origings/cultures while most other languages seem to use different words.

 

[Saelune]

To be fair, all people do that to everyone. How many times do people say the same about Americans? And they usually mean people from the US, and yet are confused when US people claim ownership of "American". The US is an even larger place than Europe.

Well, according to google, Europe is a slightly bigger place than USA: US 9.857 million km? vs EU 10.18 million km?, with a population of 318.9 million versus 742.5 million.

The thing I saw said a much smaller Europe, though double checking says that was wrong *shrug*, but that doesn't refute my point, that Europe and US are both large diverse places. Each state might as well be its own country.

 

[stroopwafel]

On the other hand, the friendships they've made here will likely last them a lifetime.

Isn't that also the source of the 'problem' though? Where I live people make friendships in childhood and early adulthood then draw a circle around them and their group of friends and from that point on not any new friendships are made anymore. The reason for this is I think a sense of tradition(a simple ''the way things are'' becoming a cultural norm) and a general lack of dependance on other people as the state has a much larger presence and influence on social discourse as people rely upon it for economic safety and general functioning of the public space making 'informal' networks way less of a necessity(probably espescially true for Scandinavian countries). These things combined I think echo through on everday mundane exchanges(or lack thereof)) between strangers. Contrary the U.S. has a vastly different history and is built on different social constructs.

Speaking from experience the difference is huge. Whenever I'm in the U.S. I'm still taken by surprise when random people start talking to you at Starbucks, a restaurant or even on the street. In general that really doesn't happen here. Even if it's just small talk people are way more social and outgoing than in Europe. Even though I'm a pretty private person myself I must confess it did make me feel more connected and included despite my stay only being for a short while. I guess b/c people are social creatures so any kind of friendly attention or others acknowledging your presence feels good in some way.

That's not to say that I bash Europe or that these aren't generalizations. And ofcourse any culture has its pros and cons. Even if I think the U.S. is much more socially engaging and dynamic that doesn't mean that the way this society is often divided in 'winners' and 'losers' can be espescially harsh. And what I like about Europe is that it tends to be more relaxed and with more focus on quality of life than competitiveness or accomplishment. Though like I said, relaxed cultural attitudes doesn't necessarily make for relaxed people.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

As for "America" and "USA", well, most people know the difference between continents and nations very well, but it is hard to fight common usage. The same thing happened to England/Britain and (when it still existed) the USSR and Russia. One really prominent part dominates the rest in conversation and some people who do not care start using the wrong word. Also the USA doesnt lend itself very well to deriving words. Canadian, Mexican, French ... but USAian ? No US-American ? Maybe.. but still unwieldy, so it is unfortunately shortened to American.

But then the English language has still "Indian" for two very different origings/cultures while most other languages seem to use different words.

I think Asia has it worst to be honest, given the huge area, the massive diversity of ethnic groups, huge mnumber of nations, and represents the majority of the world's population. I use '(the) Americas' for both, and 'North America' principally if I want to jumble the north specifically. I use 'US' for USA, even though I know it should be U.S. (those two extra periods are hard work, man D ...

Can't really blame people for using 'American' when it's in the acronym itself.\

I quite like 'Oceania' ... but nobody can decide on a set definition for that either. But that's a different topic.

I think we should ditch Southeast Asia and just have Oceania for basically eaverything east and south of the South China Sea. You know ... assuming we want to seperate continents by the specificities of distinct ethnic groupings. Plus Oceania sounds cooler than Southeast Asia. Also sounds way cooler than Australasia. Simply calling a whole bunch of things; "Ehhh, it's 'South of Asia', are we clear?..." really isn't that good of a name.

 

[sageoftruth]

As Bobular pointed out, this kind of culture makes it hell when your job requires you to approach strangers in the street.

If it were up to me it'd be a crime to approach people on the street to sell stuff.
I mean, here I am, going along and minding my own business and some random dude/dudette not only delay me, but tries to push me to buy stuff that I don't really want.

Indeed, they're a real pain. Still, I doubt they would be such a pain if we left the house every day without expecting to be left alone. If talking to strangers was normal, then the only annoyance would be him suddenly segueing into a sales pitch during the conversation.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

It's considered rude to interrupt people for no reason when they might be deep in their own thoughts or whatever. I guess. You don't have to talk to people to acknowledge their existence. That's kind of a narcissistic view of the world. Sometimes you can acknowledge other people's existence simply by not bothering them.

 

[Just Ebola]

if you fail to acknowledge those around you and treat them as family

I think you're way overestimating the amount of familiarity Americans are willing to afford strangers. Even in some of the more southern states, a friendly greeting can often be met with a steely glance and a "problem?".

But it's actually surprising how many people here are opposed to a friendly chat among strangers, I usually take part in them and I'm fairly introverted. Mutual complaining about whatever is going on nearby, mindless gossip about politics, theses brief exchanges really enrich my day when they happen. The old saying about how it's easier to talk to a stranger has normally proven true, for me anyways. Every conversation has it's rhythm, and once you find it, it's like slipping into a worn, leathery glove.

I would guess its a result of the language barrier. Put a German next to a French, and they don't share a language or culture. Take a Texan put him next to a New Yorker and they at least both hate California and speak something approaching English.

Generalizing can be fun, but lets not get carried away. If I had a nickel for every time I had to dispel stereotypes about Texans to a dismissive stranger, I wouldn't be posting this right now. I'd be watching a sailboat jousting match from the penthouse of my private yacht.

I've never been to the UK, but I don't assume they're all tea-swilling scone goblins that walk around in Buckingham palace guard hats, singing God Save The Queen all day. People are people wherever you go, don't see why you'd place yourself above them. So let's not paint in broad strokes here.

Ignore sensationalism, stop stereotyping.