Too long, didn't read. It's great that people hate/dislike anime, that's what makes it interesting, if it became as common as dirt then it wouldn't be as appealing anymore.
I love having a Good Berserk Discussion, thank you for letting me indulge in itCasual Shinji said:I really don't mind the new crew at all. I actually think that Miura handled the page time of each character very well.boag said:Just because Guts is running around with a new crew, and it takes months for a new chapter doesnt mean it sucks now.Casual Shinji said:BerserkElmoth said:Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy.
It's still ongoing and it kinda sucks now, but volume 1 to 22 is absolute gold. Given you don't have a weak stomach.
People have just been spoiled that they were able to breeze through the entire Golden Age arc, without having to endure the months it took between chapters.
If this was 20 years ago, people would be complaining about how shit berserk is because nothing ever happens and its just people talking all the time, when the first arc showed guts battling a demon slug.
Three things I dislike about Berserk now, which all started after the Tower of Conviction arc:
1) Farnese's character shift. She was probably my favourite female character in the whole story because she was just so darn fucked up and complex. She's filled with fears, but instead of fighting them she chooses to give herself over to them in the hope to find comfort and peace of mind. It even fuels her sexual desire to the point where she mastrubates at the thought of people burning alive at the stake. So it's pretty clear that that shit runs pretty deep.
But then after the Tower of Conviction she simply decides to not be fucked up anymore and becomes the shy and demure heroine who tries to find the power within herself. *barf* She basically becomes Orihime from Bleach.
Then it gets even better when she wants to be trained in magic. Not out of the insane, twisted curiosity brought on by fear she used to have, but because of genuine admiration. And this girl was as aggressively religious as they come. For her there was no way but the Vatican way. Sure, it was out of fear and confusion, but if it runs deep enough to fuel your sexual desire you don't just switch that off.
2) Guts' mild manners. Now I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss Guts' old cruel self just a little bit, but it goes beyond that. He just seems to have lost his passion. Whether he was a cruel mad dog killer, a little kid trying to impress his "father", or a raiders captain, there was always a fire and an energy to him and this kinda disappeared in and around volume 23. This is only a minor dislike though.
3) The Berserk armor. Words cannot discibe how much I fucking hate the inclusion of this stupid thing and how it almost totally destroys what made Guts such a compelling charater, but I'll try anyway.
To put it simply, the Berserk armor adds a deus ex machina situation to Berserk when the story was always above that sort of thing. Guts' struggle was so involving because he's a human being taking on the forces of hell with his own strength alone; No magic or demonic curse like in Naruto or Bleach, but his own muscles and training. Sure, it was an inhuman strength, but he earned it throughout the many years on the battlefield. Whatever didn't kill him made him stronger, and he had encountered many horifying creatures who seemed way out of his league. But through cunning, strength, and pushing himself to his physical and mental limits he ultimately conquered his opponent, usually at the expense of his sanity.
From the moment he got raped as a child to the moment he was pinned down by demons watching Casca get raped by his former best friend turned demon god, he vowed to never let any opponent get the best of him ever again, no matter the cost. Even if it meant going insane, or losing his arm he would never let anyone dominate him whether it be human, demon, or god.
The Berserk armor ruines all that, because now whenever Guts is in a situation he can't handle he just swithces on the armor and he just breezes through the fight like it was nothing. No tension, no sense of gratification or victory, nothing.
I don't dislike everything from volume 22/23 on though. I actually really liked how the concept of magic and witches was done. It felt way more interesting and involving then anything I've ever seen in Harry Potter.
I live in Ontario and I can assure you, Nelvana screwed up the order when they first broadcast it. The first episode they aired was actually the seventh episode in the actual continuity in the series.Bhaalspawn said:Here in Canada, all 70 episodes were shown in the right order.Otaku World Order said:It was?Bhaalspawn said:Hell, even when a show gets an English translation, I see many anime fans clawing at the walls about how awful it is. CLAMP had a comic book and cartoon about a little girl who captured spirits in the forms of tarot cards and it sucked. They gave it to Nelvana to translate into English and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen.
I'm a little surprised by that, since when CardCaptor Sakura became CardCaptors, Nelvana decided to show the episodes completely out of order making a tangled mess of the plot.
Then what is the difference from the original and the Nelvana dub?Bhaalspawn said:I should have clarified. Canadian networks aired it in it's chronological order, as they didn't start boradcasting it until a few years after it's original airdate. Teletoon (the Canadian division of Cartoon Network) started airing the show around 2003, and it started with the episode where all the cards were released.Otaku World Order said:I live in Ontario and I can assure you, Nelvana screwed up the order when they first broadcast it. The first episode they aired was actually the seventh episode in the actual continuity in the series.Bhaalspawn said:Here in Canada, all 70 episodes were shown in the right order.Otaku World Order said:It was?Bhaalspawn said:Hell, even when a show gets an English translation, I see many anime fans clawing at the walls about how awful it is. CLAMP had a comic book and cartoon about a little girl who captured spirits in the forms of tarot cards and it sucked. They gave it to Nelvana to translate into English and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen.
I'm a little surprised by that, since when CardCaptor Sakura became CardCaptors, Nelvana decided to show the episodes completely out of order making a tangled mess of the plot.
They may have fixed it later on, but when they started they were all over the map with that dub job.
Ah, now I understand.Bhaalspawn said:I should have clarified. Canadian networks aired it in it's chronological order, as they didn't start boradcasting it until a few years after it's original airdate. Teletoon (the Canadian division of Cartoon Network) started airing the show around 2003, and it started with the episode where all the cards were released.Otaku World Order said:I live in Ontario and I can assure you, Nelvana screwed up the order when they first broadcast it. The first episode they aired was actually the seventh episode in the actual continuity in the series.Bhaalspawn said:Here in Canada, all 70 episodes were shown in the right order.Otaku World Order said:It was?Bhaalspawn said:Hell, even when a show gets an English translation, I see many anime fans clawing at the walls about how awful it is. CLAMP had a comic book and cartoon about a little girl who captured spirits in the forms of tarot cards and it sucked. They gave it to Nelvana to translate into English and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen.
I'm a little surprised by that, since when CardCaptor Sakura became CardCaptors, Nelvana decided to show the episodes completely out of order making a tangled mess of the plot.
They may have fixed it later on, but when they started they were all over the map with that dub job.
Oh no, thank youboag said:I love having a Good Berserk Discussion, thank you for letting me indulge in it
My point is that there was something really dark inside her. You could see it in her eyes when see looked upon the bloody whip marks she left on Guts, and when she saw the rebels being tortured by wheel when we're first introduced to Mosgus; A certain lust for physical pain. It hadn't come to full bloom yet, but it was very much there.Farnese snip
This actually gets into a 4th dislike I have for current Berserk: The Demon Dog.On to Guts not having his fire anymore.
You have to understand, the fire rage and mad dog attitude have now become his enemy, he is constantly trying to keep his rage in check, because of what happened when he got taken over and hurt Caska. This has weighed heavily on him, because he was able to open up to Caska about his own trauma, and she accepted him, he went on a revenge rampage because of Caska, its central to the character. The constant battle of wills between him and the Demon Dog has worn him out, there is also the encounter with Slaan, that basically crush his spirit, to the point where the Skull plot dev... Knight had to rescue him a second time. which leads me into the 3rd point.
The armor, yes it is a plot device, yet its a plot device that doesnt give him the instant win ability that plagues Shonen. This thing is a cursed item for a reason, no eating him alive from the inside isnt the main reason, its because it has finally given the Demon Dog a physical Form, it has been shown every time he used it, that he is losing more and more control, even now with Shierke on his side its a losing battle, because the Demon Dog is getting stronger and stronger. The armor has become as much weight as a crutch, he doesnt want to use it, and his core group know he shouldnt use it, that is why he asked Serpico to kill him in case he fully loses it.
Guts hasnt lost his continous struggle for survival, its just that it has changed dramatically, from a physical battle to a spiritual one as well, with fits in the themes of the story, since now the world has been united with 2 more planes of existance, and reality as a whole has been altered.
You should have realized that Berserk was going to be a Fantasy story, from the moment the Count transformed into the Snake Apostle in the first arc, heck when you should have known when shota fairy was introduced.
Casual Shinji said:Oh no, thank youboag said:I love having a Good Berserk Discussion, thank you for letting me indulge in it
My point is that there was something really dark inside her. You could see it in her eyes when see looked upon the bloody whip marks she left on Guts, and when she saw the rebels being tortured by wheel when we're first introduced to Mosgus; A certain lust for physical pain. It hadn't come to full bloom yet, but it was very much there.Farnese snip
Same as the moment when she is briefly possessed, and the demon in question easily exposes her ritualistic self-lashings as an act of pleasure instead of religious penance. This is why she clutched so firmly to her religion. Because she knows what she feels is wrong, but since no one can surpress their sexual desire she hides behind a mask of piety.
And then all of a sudden that darkness is gone. This just doesn't make sense to me. I don't mind that she follows Guts in the hope to learn the secret to oppose the Darkness - something she's feared and induldged in her entire life. It's just that it seems she doesn't even need to learn the secret anymore, because her twisted desire for pain seems to have vanished into thin air. And it was this conficting side of her that was fun to behold. Now she's just a boring side character.
This actually gets into a 4th dislike I have for current Berserk: The Demon Dog.On to Guts not having his fire anymore.
You have to understand, the fire rage and mad dog attitude have now become his enemy, he is constantly trying to keep his rage in check, because of what happened when he got taken over and hurt Caska. This has weighed heavily on him, because he was able to open up to Caska about his own trauma, and she accepted him, he went on a revenge rampage because of Caska, its central to the character. The constant battle of wills between him and the Demon Dog has worn him out, there is also the encounter with Slaan, that basically crush his spirit, to the point where the Skull plot dev... Knight had to rescue him a second time. which leads me into the 3rd point.
The armor, yes it is a plot device, yet its a plot device that doesnt give him the instant win ability that plagues Shonen. This thing is a cursed item for a reason, no eating him alive from the inside isnt the main reason, its because it has finally given the Demon Dog a physical Form, it has been shown every time he used it, that he is losing more and more control, even now with Shierke on his side its a losing battle, because the Demon Dog is getting stronger and stronger. The armor has become as much weight as a crutch, he doesnt want to use it, and his core group know he shouldnt use it, that is why he asked Serpico to kill him in case he fully loses it.
Guts hasnt lost his continous struggle for survival, its just that it has changed dramatically, from a physical battle to a spiritual one as well, with fits in the themes of the story, since now the world has been united with 2 more planes of existance, and reality as a whole has been altered.
You should have realized that Berserk was going to be a Fantasy story, from the moment the Count transformed into the Snake Apostle in the first arc, heck when you should have known when shota fairy was introduced.
I don't see the need for this blatant symbolic representation of Guts' dark side. Berserk has always had plenty of symbolism, but it was always much more subtle. The moment I saw this Demon Dog thing manifest right after Guts defeated that girl apostle it felt very superfluous. Guts' darkness was always perfectly represented by his own facial expressions, it didn't need some symbolic dog thing to tell the audience they'd better not be around him right now.
Plus, I just hate the way it looks as well as the helmet. It makes him look like Big Daddy from the Kick-Ass movie.
Honestly, I've found the most interesting events after the Tower of Conviction to take place in the new Band of the Hawk.
Though I will admit that when I saw Slaan manifest in the physical world I squeed like a little girl. That was such a mindblowing pay-off after the entire build-up with the trolls and ogres and whatnot.
I agree with you. and also you forgot about Code Geass. shame on you /kiddinghazabaza1 said:Good read that. Though I don't recall seeing anything about Gurren Lagann, and any discussion without that particular anime infuriates me.
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is sci-fi that's about manliness ;P The only mark against it is it's directed Hiroyuki Imaishi, who loves to use exaggerated perspective in his animation, which gives it a very "comic book" feel. Which might be a good thing if you're used to way animation is done in the west, but less-so if you want something more "serious" and "realistic". Regardless, it's often a popular series among new people, so give it a go.Fusionxl said:Wise sages. Please recommend me a Baby's First Anime. Something manly. Preferably sci-fi themed.
You DID see the part where I showed that anime doesn't always look like what people think it normally does, didn't you? So if an anime doesn't have a "japanise popculture" aesthetic, what's the problem?Fetzenfisch said:Television is a medium. Anime is cartoons from Japan. And i still cant stand watching it. The aesthetics propagated in japanise popculture just repells me instantly. SO i dont care about some if it being deep and well written. i do not doubt that. I still can't watch things looking like that.I can't make people go into theatres or enjoying puppet plays. Those can be very well done too and you animu worshippers will never change my taste in looks.
Well, there's your problem! You've only watched shounen action series! Now that you're older, you're going to want something different! What are you into? There's pretty much an anime for everyoneColdster said:This is quite a remarkable article. I like it, dispite not liking the majority of anime (I only really like Dragonball and Dragonball Z but I used to watch Inyuasha and Naruto but then I found them boring as I got older...). This also reminds me of another epic thread about anime, which I enjoyed as well: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.253074-What-is-so-great-about-Anime
I'm glad that people can enjoy it, even if it will never be in my interests. We all have different tastes, and we should be able to respect that. Gee, MLP sure taught me a lot...