Evolve Dev: "I Don't Like People Thinking We're Doing Dirty, Underhanded S***"

[oldtaku]

The pre-order to skip the grind was where it went completely off the rails. 'Here, we made the game purposely defective... unless you preorder! Woo!' A little bit of grind isn't necessarily bad (just look at WoW), but along with all the other stuff it breeds a very strong suspicion that they made the game more grindy than it needed to be so they could sell you degrind DLC later.

 

[Nazulu]

What a brainless moron. Any idiot should be able to figure out that selling expensive DLC before a full priced multi-player game is released is really damn dirty. And don't forget the pre-order bonuses that skip parts of the game. Fuck this scum.

 

[Darxide]

I don't find it dirty or underhanded. I think the automatic hysteria over DLC is a bit dumb.

People have been burned by terrible companies doing terribly unethical things with DLC just to make a buck. I understand that, but to automatically try to shove anybody who produces DLC into that box makes you just as terrible as those terrible companies. Even if a game is designed for DLC that doesn't make it bad or the company bad.

I've looked over what the DLC polices are for Evolve and find nothing wrong with them in the slightest and the people blindly jumping on the bandwagon that there is something wrong with it I only have one thing to say: You are what's wrong with gamers today. You ARE the problem.

Hey I like DLC (in general) and I'm not condemning them simply for having it. It's the way they are handling it that makes me angry. When you are pushing the DLC harder than the game itself, announcing pre-orders before people get a chance to see the game, and still selling that extra content even before it's done....THAT is the problem.

And no, I would say that designing a game for DLC is a bad thing and anti-consumer. Because then you aren't selling a game and then offering some extra bits later, you are just selling a platform for the real content. It's not hard to feel ripped off or like you aren't getting the full experience when you are greeted with a wall of DLC before the game is even out yet. Okay some of the extra content isn't "done yet"...well then wait till it is before you try selling it. Simple, no?

All that preorder stuff that was up before stuff was done is still up. You aren't being forced into blindly buying stuff. You can wait until its finished and it's still available to buy. What's "not done yet" in the base game preorder? Just the fourth monster. That's a bonus for preordering. You don't preorder just to get the fourth monster. That would be dumb. You preorder because you like what's already been shown about the game and you get a bonus monster down the line as a reward. There are hours upon hours of video for all of the base game and a good chunk of the DLC. You can make a decision whether or not to buy the base game based upon that and know exactly what you are getting. The DLC stuff? Most of that is known content as well and not "not done yet" stuff.

Plus, none of the DLC is required even though all the rage trolls in this thread are making it out to be a mandatory thing that all the DLC must be bought, but then say things like "DLC is ok but I don't usually buy it." Then what's the problem? Don't buy it then, but don't continue to base part of your argument in the necessity of buying the DLC.

I think the only dirty tricks going on here are the rage arguments against this game. Everyone is using sleight of hand arguments about DLC this and preorder that, but in reality, the only real problem with this game right now is the price. I will admit that it is a little bit overpriced. That isn't a dirty trick. Turtle Rock has laid everything out. They aren't hiding anything. That is simply a bad business move in my opinion. And if you want more of my opinion (and it's clear nobody does, but here it is anyway) the base game should be dropped to $30 and there should be a F2P feature that limits you to the first 4 hunters and the Goliath with a cap on progression. Simple as that. But it is what it is. I can at least control myself for a minute (unlike the majority in this thread) and see the logic in the pricing. 2K paid a ton of money to buy this game and then poured a ton more into development. They need to make a return in the investment or the entire game gets scrapped and 2K takes a massive loss. I get it. I don't agree with how they went about it, but I get it. Nothing dirty or underhanded there. Just not the smartest way of handling the purchasing of the game and it's optional content.

For what it's worth, I will be preordering the PC Master Race pack. Yea, $100 is a little steep, but I have loved pretty much everything I've seen about this game so far, even the grindy bits. I'm willing to give it a chance because it's a solid game and it looks like nothing gets released until its good and polished first. I trust a developer who does that.

*This post written on my ipad. Please forgive any spelling mistakes or other typos.*

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Then stop doing dirty underhanded shit.

Goddamnit.

Just stop it.

You imbeciles.

 

[Dakota Scott]

Then stop doing dirty underhanded shit.

Goddamnit.

Just stop it.

You imbeciles.

Too bad they won't. They care enough to whine about being accused of doing this kind of crap, but not enough to actually do anything to fix it.

 

[cikame]

I know pre-order incentives don't really count since they come with the game, but just by not getting the game early you miss out on one of the largest most badass monsters in the game... and you wonder why people get mad at that? You know, the content that's available on day 1... probably already on the disc?
I'm not sure what other DLC they've announced since every google result is an angry headline, which kind of speaks for itself.

I don't think any of the rage would have happened if they just said "we have plans to support the game for a long time", and not "shortly after release there will be a shop load of things you will buy".

 

[L. Declis]

I will say this; if they learn from their mistakes, shove everything into a single box for £50, the new monsters and hunters and all, I will get it. Alternatively, sell it for £15 and then offer DLC, I'll very highly consider buying it.

[EDIT: Just read they intend to sell a SINGLE MONSTER for £10. No, nope, hell noes, nada, nein, nip, not gonna happen. £50 with it all or not at all.]

The game is exciting, but the idea that I am getting the bones of your game for £50 and then on top, buying more and more DLC, makes me sad and frankly, there are games that want me to buy DLC without taking the piss.

And I get what he means; I also like DLC. I have bought all the Mass Effects with DLC twice (Xbox died), I have gotten all the DLC for Final Fantasy XIII and XIII-2, and Civilization 5. Because the base games were still amazing full games which I have sunk over 100 hours into each BEFORE I have to consider DLC, and each DLC was about £5 for another couple of hours of a great game. Not the introduction to said game.

 

[raankh]

So essentially he's saying;

"I don't like that our target audience has become so jaded it sees through our corporate scams before buying."

Although I find it a bit tragic that it would have to happen to begin with, this sounds like good news to me!

 

[WarpZone]

But we wanted to be good about it as consumers," which is consistent with his earlier statement that when Evolve ships, none of it's DLC will be finished [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/139496-Evolve-Dev-Defends-DLC-Practices].

Preorder bonuses ARE day-one DLC, Phil.

 

[OldFogeyGamer]

Personally "DLC" has always had a bad connotation to me. When I hear "expansion" I associate it with good value for good money, when I hear "DLC" I think of horse armor for $1.99 (thanks Bethesda) or content ripped from the main game and repackaged as an "add-on" (thanks Bioware).

It's slowly becoming less true with more substantial DLCs coming out, but the stigma's still there. Nobody should be surprised that there will be a bad reaction to an announcement that basically sounds like "we want to nickle and dime you for as long and little effort as possible".

 

[Heartsib]

If he doesn't understand the "kneejerk reaction" to DLC, then perhaps he hasn't been paying close attention to the goodwill that game publishers have been steadily dribbling away over the last decade when it comes to how/when additional content is released and what's being charged for it. Seriously, a lot of us gamers are completionists; we adore having our little hunting/gathering instincts appealed to. Give us more of a good thing and odds are we'll be all over it. But we don't like being taken advantage of, and that's more and more what most add-on content feels like these days.

 

[PirateRose]

If money and time is such an issue for these awesome extra ideas to make it into the main game, they shouldn't exist yet until the game is out and a success and they have the money and time to do them then.

I can understand having future plans for DLC, to add to the story or to add gear, but why waste so much money and time making them while making the game.

 

[Siege_TF]

Sophistry. No less pathetic for it's predictability. They aren't going to do a damn thing about the fact that they're following Watch Dogs' (and as I understand it, Assassin Creed Unity's) business model, in spite of the fact that it blew up in the publisher's faces. Except Evolve doesn't really have a story mode, which makes it worse, because it means it's not a game you can really sell at full price and expect to be taken seriously.

Maybe it didn't start out like this, maybe they had more reasonable plans for the game and they're in too deep now because the investors will point and scream like goddamned Pod People if they clean some of this shit up with a basic, a deluxe, and an all-inclusive gold leaf box, figurine, and hand-job package. But that would look like less potential revenue on paper, and. they. just. can't. They can't tell it like it is either, because the investors will scurry off like the cockroaches they are when a flashlight is shined on their oily carapaces, and take their monies with them.

 

[TwiZtah]

uh-huh, yeah, not buying it.

The devs may think this way, but unfortunately, they have publishers behind them that will do anything for short term profits, no matter the cost long term.

 

[Yuuki]

If the devs truly believe themselves to be "one of us gamers" , they should understand EXACTLY why there is a backlash.

 

[Rawbeard]

"yeah, we build a game that is made to sell you DLC, but it's not pay to win, it's just better monsters and weapons for money." Sure, it might turn out their DLC are... not... that. But I highly doubt it, so they will have to deal with hurt feelings for being called out on that.

 

[K12]

I also have a kneejerk negative reaction to having my fingers cut off and sold back to me one by one.

I guess I'm just a hand fanboy.

This is the exactly the kind of self-righteous PR bullshit that makes me want a game to bomb really really hard.

 

[RenegadeDuck]

Too much they couldn't fit in budget-wise and time-wise? Oh, sure, you don't have the money or the time to finish the game with all content included upon initial release, but you DO have the money and time to make twice as much DLC and pre-order bonuses. You could practically make a whole other game with all the DLC these knuckleheads are putting out, and yet all this extra time and effort couldn't be put into making a larger, more complete initial product?

Yeah, not buying it, Turtle Rock. Nice try though. Except not really. It was a terrible try. It was terrible and you should feel terrible, Turtle Rock.

 

[Recusant]

Honestly, people are too whiny.

For example, if the marketing implies that you get x amount of monsters when you buy the game, when in fact you only get some and the rest are dlc, that's a problem, they sold a product through false advertisements. If that is not happening, then shut the fuck up, voice your opinion on the value of their offerings with your wallet.

That's a horribly toxic attitude; not just for the gamers in question, but the industry as a whole. There are a thousand reasons why any offered video game could be found objectionable; if consumers just "shut the fuck up" and "voice your opinion on the value of their offerings with your wallet", then how on earth are the developers supposed to know what the problem is? If they don't, then how is anything supposed to improve? We developed the ideas of communication and feedback for a reason; ignoring them just because they're sometimes misdirected is nothing short of madness.

 

[Pinky's Brain]

You'd think they'd learn to stop talking about paid DLC before games ship.