Explain the appeal of Harem Anime
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- Apr 1, 2009
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Well keep in mind too, the whole thing was written for a writing contest. The only reason he couldn't submit it is that it was too long. He is an amateur writer who got lucky.Fox12 said:
...that's not the only thing being stroked, HEYOOOOO!Happyninja42 said:
But anyway, yup. Scantily-clad animu girls. You've got it right, sex sells. You should check out Shimoneta: A Boring World Where the Concept of Dirty Jokes Doesn't Exist, if you want to see a parody of raunchy anime taken to the extreme.
- Apr 1, 2009
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- Whatever, just wash your hands.
Actually its not really. See Japan is physically small and its got good public transit, which means certain cities can be dedicated to nerd things since nerds can get to them. Its like if the states was defined by Los Vegas.Tanis said:
Modern Harem anime baffles me a bit, but that's probably because the first one I watched was Tenchi Muyo. He had his own opinions, strengths, talents, personality, strong work ethic, etc. He was a legitimately decent human being.
I pine for the days where a harem protagonist was defined by more than proximity.
And it's okay, because she isn't actually his sister, just a cousin who was adopted by Kirito's parents and became his sister. So that's not creepy at all.
I pine for the days where a harem protagonist was defined by more than proximity.
I heard it was because they wanted a waifu with bigger boobs.Fox12 said:
And it's okay, because she isn't actually his sister, just a cousin who was adopted by Kirito's parents and became his sister. So that's not creepy at all.
That's kinda' my thought as well. Its very clear, very...tame, sexual fantasy. "Oh hey, a bunch of hot women who want to have sex with me! Great!" That seems pretty standard for males to me.Johnny Novgorod said:
From an evolutionary psychology perspective, harem anime is perfectly natural.
Humans are biologically predisposed to polygamy. A man can reproduce with any number of females at a time, while a female can only get pregnant once every 9 months, ergo, men have a greater biological motivation to have as many partners as possible.
Women tend to be more social and cooperative, which facilitates groups of women being willing to compromise and work together, and overcome jealousy as part of the harem group.
If you need further evidence, you can look at gorilla and chimpanzee social groups to see a similar dynamic in other primates.
In short, the reason harem anime exists is the same reason that harems/polygamous/serially monogamous relationships have existed throughout history: It's nice work if you can get it.
Humans are biologically predisposed to polygamy. A man can reproduce with any number of females at a time, while a female can only get pregnant once every 9 months, ergo, men have a greater biological motivation to have as many partners as possible.
Women tend to be more social and cooperative, which facilitates groups of women being willing to compromise and work together, and overcome jealousy as part of the harem group.
If you need further evidence, you can look at gorilla and chimpanzee social groups to see a similar dynamic in other primates.
In short, the reason harem anime exists is the same reason that harems/polygamous/serially monogamous relationships have existed throughout history: It's nice work if you can get it.
Personally the harem anime I watch... I find it funny and I watch it like I do any comedy anime. My usual anime fare tends to be fairly dark, and every once in a while its nice to lighten it up with a comedy. Sometimes even going with a little nostalgia as well (like rewatching Tenchi.) In Tenchi's case that led me to GXP and War on Geminar and I enjoyed those as well. Other times I watch a new comedy anime to take a break from darker fare (hence my Psycho Pass avatar.) Hell, Magica Madoka was dark enough to drive me to finally watching the rest of season 1 of My Little Pony to cheer me up a little. And every once in a while I find a new funny comedy. A lot it turns out I'm not into, most recently Kaijo (although I did laugh at "Shoryucans") and Negima (just wasn't laughing.) But sometimes I'll find a weird diamond, like No-Rin (I come from an agricultural area and background and I find it funny.) And sometimes those comedies have harem elements. So for me, the appeal isn't about whether or not its a harem at all (or reverse harem, Ouran was funny enough I watched through it once) but whether or not I find it funny or entertaining.
Well, there's always hentai. Where the otherwise unremarkable and wimpy male lead turns out to be a sexual virtuose with infinite stamina, improbably sized dick with non-existant refractory period, and, despite no prior experience in bed, inexplained ability to thoroughly satisfy multiple women (often at once) to the point they become addicted to his cock/pass out from pleasure. This guy doesn't just get to sex all his haremettes, but also their best friends. Their moms. Their older sisters. Their little sisters. His own mom and sisters. Basically anything with a vagina that appears on-page/screen.Wrex Brogan said:
As for non-hentai often not including sex, I suppose that's partly because any harem manga/anime that actually has the main character engage in sex with his harem would risk landing it in that hentai section if the act is actually shown, depending on how explicit it is.
Also, I suppose many writers wouldn't want to risk losing fans by having the girl that isn't their waifu 'win' by getting it on with the male lead. Unless of course he gets them all in the end, restoring the status quo harem manga/anime seem to love so much. But again, getting all the girls is more the territory of harem hentai.
The point is not 'hey all these girls want to bang me, ORGY TIME!', more ' which of these girls fits my particular fetish and tastes so I can fixate on and imagine I'm actually with'.Wrex Brogan said:
Actually having sex in 'canon' means picking someone that may violate a subset of what the audience wants to happen, and risks pissing them off.
Safer to string them all along by not committing, and leave the sexy times to hentai fanart and doujinshi so every viewer can preserve the 'canon' in their head.
I'm not familiar enough with the ins and outs of the genre to comment on specifics, but being surrounded by attractive and eager members of the opposite sex all of whom only have eyes for you is a rather universal fantasy no matter the culture.
But where does this notion that harem fans are female come from? Isn't there tons of shoujo with those improbably hot and perfect super talented bishie boys who are incredibly courteous and chaste, only have eyes for the protagonist, play the violin and piano and take the protagonist on luxurious dinners and I don't even know what I'm basing this on? Wouldn't that genre fit what is considered the equivalent female fantasy to harem far better?
the tons of hot sweaty hentai various manga I've read, but I kinda assumed they were like American teen idols you see on magazines aimed at that demographic. Turns out I'd underestimated the weirdness of Japan once again. Is that really the case? As in, they're presented as perfect fantasy girlfriends to the public? 'cause that's jus' wrong, man. Reminds me of that time when Ex Machina had an ad disguised as a Tinder profile for Ava (the AI from the movie). Something about that kind of thing crosses a certain line for me.
But where does this notion that harem fans are female come from? Isn't there tons of shoujo with those improbably hot and perfect super talented bishie boys who are incredibly courteous and chaste, only have eyes for the protagonist, play the violin and piano and take the protagonist on luxurious dinners and I don't even know what I'm basing this on? Wouldn't that genre fit what is considered the equivalent female fantasy to harem far better?
Jesus... shit's fucked, yo. I'd seen the term inundeadsuitor said:
Hey, that's exactly what the people making these shows think of their audience, and their A-OK with targeting and exploiting that audience for all the body pillows and waifu figurines they can sell them at a ridiculous markup.Guilion said:
Well, like others have eluded to before in this thread, a harem anime is all about the women, not the protagonist. Unlike what half of this tread (and the usual suspects at that) will have you believe, most people watch these shows not because they themselves want to be surrounded by beautiful women all the time, but because they get invested in the characters.
The protagonist becomes a vocal point for the love interest to focus around, he is often the reason they get or stay involved with the plot and already established characters. That's why most harem protagonists are more subdued. This focus on the female characters leads to most harem series having either a strong focus on character relationships within in the harem, or an overarching plot and characters goals aside from romance.
Good harem anime have cleary defined characters with strengths, flaws and goals; the women have more motivation than to get the dude and play off of each other, they have different relationships and chemistry with both the protagonist and the rest of the harem.
So in short, harem shows are the fighting games of anime: flashy vehicles for (mostly female) characters, where the story is not the main reason to watch it.
Granted, there are a LOT of bad harem shows, and they share the problem all bad anime share: formulaic to a fault. This is especially bad for harem shows, because they are all about character, and if you only have stock characters and cardboard cutouts, it is gonna be painfully noticable. But this is no reason to hold this against all harem shows or the people who watch them.
Are there sad, lonely people holed up in their room afraid of women and change? Yes. Are they a majority or the reason these shows are produced? No. I think most people know how emotionally draining it would be to have a constant stream of people around you who demand attention and affection. Saying that harem shows are mainly produced for otaku shut-ins is like saying Doom was mainly produced for people who want hell to invade irl, so they can kill as much as they want with moral justification. Heck, even the mostly ironic concept of waifus runs counter to this, because if it were people's fantasy to contantly be surrounded by the oposite sex, why would they pick favorites?
tldr: Are all harem shows marketed toward otaku shut-ins? No, BAD shows are. But there is crap in every medium, no reason to generalize.
The protagonist becomes a vocal point for the love interest to focus around, he is often the reason they get or stay involved with the plot and already established characters. That's why most harem protagonists are more subdued. This focus on the female characters leads to most harem series having either a strong focus on character relationships within in the harem, or an overarching plot and characters goals aside from romance.
Good harem anime have cleary defined characters with strengths, flaws and goals; the women have more motivation than to get the dude and play off of each other, they have different relationships and chemistry with both the protagonist and the rest of the harem.
So in short, harem shows are the fighting games of anime: flashy vehicles for (mostly female) characters, where the story is not the main reason to watch it.
Granted, there are a LOT of bad harem shows, and they share the problem all bad anime share: formulaic to a fault. This is especially bad for harem shows, because they are all about character, and if you only have stock characters and cardboard cutouts, it is gonna be painfully noticable. But this is no reason to hold this against all harem shows or the people who watch them.
Are there sad, lonely people holed up in their room afraid of women and change? Yes. Are they a majority or the reason these shows are produced? No. I think most people know how emotionally draining it would be to have a constant stream of people around you who demand attention and affection. Saying that harem shows are mainly produced for otaku shut-ins is like saying Doom was mainly produced for people who want hell to invade irl, so they can kill as much as they want with moral justification. Heck, even the mostly ironic concept of waifus runs counter to this, because if it were people's fantasy to contantly be surrounded by the oposite sex, why would they pick favorites?
tldr: Are all harem shows marketed toward otaku shut-ins? No, BAD shows are. But there is crap in every medium, no reason to generalize.
A little bit of thin skin on display in this thread. To be honest, I wasn't even considering the Western audiences, seeing as I heard that otaku guys are where all these shows make their money from, I imagine most people in the West stream anyway, so they're not making money off of you guys. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I heard.
I won't deny that a certain niche of the anime industry at the time is gear toward otakus and their money similar to freeware games and whales, but that doesn't mean that every harem show automatically falls into that category. I don't watch most harem shows or moeblob anime, because a lot of them are pretty bad. But I know that there are good shows in both genres. For example, Monster Musume and K-on!, respectivly. Saying that an entire genre is geared towards and only liked by otakus is using generalization as an excuse not to think, in my opinion.Phasmal said:
Well, you'd be right to assume I don't spend a lot of time thinking about harem anime, because I don't.ManutheBloodedge said:
I'd say my only exposure to them at all was hearing about how much some anime needs otaku dudes to buy their merch, oh, and the occasional thread on here arguing about who is "best girl".
I'm sure they're not all crap, but they're not my thing at all. (And I really doubt they have a mostly female following, dunno where OP got that from, but hey, stranger things have happened).
...Then why even post on this thread? So you come in, state your (according to you) uninformed opinion, and if someone corrects you they are "thin skinned", and weird for thinking just a litte about the topic of the threat? 'Aight. Shine on you crazy diamond.Phasmal said:
I'm sorry, I didn't know I needed to take a course on harem anime before I'm allowed to give my opinion.ManutheBloodedge said:
I said people are being thin-skinned because while it seemed obvious to me that people in the thread were talking about otakus, a lot of people seemed to be taking it personally.
I also didn't call anyone weird for thinking. I think you may be projecting a little.
People get fucking weird about anime, I swear.
EDIT: As much as I'd love to argue anime all day, I have to go to work, so I'll leave it there. But there are plenty of others who aren't keen on it in this thread, try one of them.
This isn't about anime, more about commenting. Of course you are allowed to give your opinion. It just isn't very helpful. "I don't now much about it and I don't like it" is a perfectly valid opinion to hold, it just isn't of any use in a thread specifically asking for what people like about something. I don't forbid you from speaking, I just said you could have very well said nothing for all the impact it had.Phasmal said:
I read your comment like you were annoyed for being argumented against, but I guess that was my reading of the text and not your intent. I apologize for that.
And of course you didn't call anybody weird, but intentionally or not, you stronlgy implied it. By stating that you cleary don't think about the topic and basically call me out for calling you out on not thinking, you operate under the assumption that not thinking about the topic is the status quo, the normal thing to do and anybody who derives from that is logically "weird".
...Altough typing that out that might just be me again.