Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value

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Apr 3, 2010
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This was an amazing video. Greatly analyzed with many great points, I played all of God of War and loved it. I didn't even finish 2 because it was uninvolving, and just more of first game but the plot started getting meddled and rather stupid, and made Kratos an absolute dick.

I refuse to play the third game, chose only to see videos of various plot-critical spots, and I hated what I saw. Ruined the plot, very preachy, and just undeserving.

Keep up the great work, I hope to see more analyses in the future!
 

ManInRed

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May 16, 2010
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This video pretty much explains my feelings about the God of War series, and also why I consider David Jaffe a great game designer. Even though Twisted Metal and God of War can be looked at as simple-overly-violent-games, David Jaffe understands that's no excuse to put no effort in the story the game conveys. As can be seen by comparing his games in those series (God of War 1, and Twisted Metal 1, 2, and Black) to the games he had no part in (God of War 2 & 3, Twisted Metal 3 & 4).
 

YouBecame

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May 2, 2010
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Extra Credits is becoming my favourite series. These guys talk with insight and humour and are entertaining while making some very good points.

Keep up the good work lads =)
 

Mykayel1

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Jul 27, 2010
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alligabbi said:
It's nice to see someone who's not afraid to criticize God of War.
I agree with at least some of what you say, having to play through both the slaughter of Zeus and the drudge through Kratos' psyche.
In the end, I really like what you are all doing with these videos and hope you keep on giving.
See ya next thursday.
Yeah...great. Where was the praise when I was doing the exact same thing? :p All I got was insults and curses. I even criticized the fact that the ending of God Of War 1 was only partially canon to the second game. The first was a great stand-alone experience, but the second ignored parts of the ending and the actual graphic design of the Gods. They also shift Zeus' personality.
 

BlindChance

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Sep 8, 2009
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I want that last part written down in golden ink upon parchment, in beautiful calligraphy. Then photocopy the heck out of it, and staple it to the door of every game developer and game reviewer in the world. Seriously. Well freaking said.
 

Arawn.Chernobog

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Nov 17, 2009
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The soul-consuming purple ghost is pleased...

Honestly this is turning out to be one of the best series on the Escapist (Probably my fav. atm... tied with Movie Bob's stuff and maybe just over ENN, Unskippable and ZP)
 

veloper

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Jan 20, 2009
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No story (just gameplay) is better than a poor story.

GOW2 and GOW3 should not have had a story. The story was finished with GOW1.
 

GunStunt567

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Oct 19, 2009
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As someone who is studying drama as a degree in the coming years i was particularly pleased with your reference to Arsitotle's "Poetics"( The basic rules for a Greek Tragedy) and I was doubly pleased with the cleverly accesible description of them for people who aren't as familiar. You made teaching the fundamentals entertaining :D

Really enjoying your stuff guys, it's always well thought out and interesting. Particularly enjoyed your one on "Innovation".

P.S: It's nice to see you and MovieBob are on good terms, as I look forward to both of your segments the most. In fact I checked you guys out after his reccomendation, the sheep that I am :p
 

Flamezdudes

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Aug 27, 2009
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Super freaking awesome. I've never played the GOW games and doubt i ever will but this video was very insightful.
 

Bayushi_Kouya

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Mar 31, 2009
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I try not to get apopleptic with rage regarding silly internet videos, but I can't help but feel a little PSYCHOTIC over this video's content. It's probably all the violent video games curdling my brain.

I started watching this series because the entertainment value of videos on the Escapist is always high (even when they are completely, insanely Movie-Bob-esque wrong). I can't help but watch this video and imagine that the people writing this series couldn't have missed the point more if they were aiming for it from a different planet.

If video games are supposed to be a new an emergent medium for storytelling, should they not also have new genres to go with their new medium? Why must they be shackled to the genres presented in noninteractive mediums? Parallel to that, why must these stories match said genres EXACTLY? They can't deviate slightly? Would that 'ruin it' somehow?

Over and above all that, I imagine some people like the perspective that Kratos is a completely unredeemable bastard. It's nice to let the id out for awhile, and channel its motivation with some puzzles and whatnot.

Third, how is the story of 2-3 not a tragedy in and of itself? Kratos starts from a high position, but his hubris (the Greeks fucking love them some hubris) results in him being brought low. Rather than blaming himself, he blames someone else and agrees to some pretty shady alliances to get his revenge. It may have required some finesse and a whole lot of persistence, but someone could have swayed Kratos from his path in 2, maybe even in 3. The Last Spartan almost pulled it off in 2 (right before the Kraken fight) before Gaia pulled some deeply underhanded shit to put him back on the path.

The remorse comes in 3, when Kratos is presented with something that is not really a choice, but he interprets it that way, and forces himself to make a decision. With the decision made, there is not much else for him to do but continue with his revenge.

That is some sad storytelling. Maybe not a Greek tragedy, but it sure fits the dictionary's definition of a tragedy. The GOW series is, to me, the tale of a man who despite his excellence, is repeatedly brought low by his emotions and his bad decision making. Had he demonstrated some philosophia (love of wisdom), he might have had the skills necessary to realize he was doing something stupid and stepped back. He never does, however, which also makes his story a good cautionary tale.

I cannot imagine the person who plays through the GOW games and at the end, still says 'I wish I were more like Kratos.' Same way I can't imagine someone would say the same about Hamlet. In a sea of characters whose professionalism, wittiness, and machismo we're supposed to idolize and aspire to, Kratos stands out like a sore thumb. He is fairly original in this respect.

How is his journey a 'failure' of video game storytelling?
 

ENKC

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May 3, 2010
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Are you asking too much of a video game? Yes. Yes you are. This article was overthinking taken to an absurd, Ted Mosby-esque level. God of War is all about the extreme excess of killing everything in Greek mythology, in one case with a bridge. I just don't feel it's a game that was meant to stand up to analysis as a literary work, nor should it be judged by those standards.
 

pepitko

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Sep 23, 2009
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These videos are getting better and better, I really like the insight balanced with entertainment. The pictures are awesome, but some of them need a little more screen time, because I can't read the captions fast enough.

Very interesting with this point of view, how much "sense" the first GOW made and the last ones didn't. Although I think that the latter games suffered from the usual let's-make-more-money-with-a-sequel problem, you simply can't redeem the main character over and over again.
 

Bobaramer

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Nov 24, 2009
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Don't get me wrong, I love this series, but I have to disagree with you now. In your first video you said something along the lines of, Video games are a different medium, so you should write for them the same way you write for anything else. If you actually want this to happen then stop comparing every story to that of a novel or a movie.

No matter how much we want there to be a video game that has as much detail and as good of a narrative as a book or a movie, it won't ever happen. Simply because whenever a game tries, our community just cries about 90 minutes cut scenes *MGS4*. I know there are some games that successfully pull off a story and when they do it's awesome, but we all know that the writing of even the best writin game would never, and could never compare to the likes of Shakespeare.

I know they kind of messed up 2 and 3 story wise, but just because a story changes style doesn't mean it's terrible. In my opinion, Kratos starts murdering all of the gods because he secretly knows what's going to happen at the end. He came to peace with death in the first game and death was taken away form him. So to make sure that he could actually die he went on this rampage and at the end he realizes that now he can join his family in the after life. (although I'm just thinking this now, where would he go if there are no gods to judge him. And where do the gods go? wow I just hurt my brain.)

But I digress because I'm starting to prove my own points wrong. Good video, looking foreword to next week.
 

Zykon TheLich

Extra Heretical!
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Jun 6, 2008
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This is the first time I've watched extra Credits and while I found what was said very interesting, the voice used, the video and the music at the end made me feel kinda ill. Like, actually physically unwell. Not that you're going to change the format half way through but the silly format is quite offputting for what is otherwise a pretty intelligent message. I could probably deal with the video on it's own but the wierd pitched up voice really throws a spanner in the works.

EDIT: Just gone back and watched most of the previous video and had to stop watching 1/2 way through. Again what was said was interesting but the video really is offputting, the stark white background with all the rapidly changing images don't really suit what is being said.
 

Waif

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Mar 20, 2010
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Wonderful video ^~^! I've never beat a GoW game yet, but I have played a couple. I figured I could like it if I could get past my dislike of quick time events. Though all the same, an informative video >~<!
 

Furrama

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Jul 24, 2008
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The first one was great. The second two not so much. They were the equivalent of 'b' movies tacked on to a franchise. But the second two were 'prettier' and to most that means better.
 

Furrama

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Jul 24, 2008
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ENKC said:
Are you asking too much of a video game? Yes. Yes you are. This article was overthinking taken to an absurd, Ted Mosby-esque level. God of War is all about the extreme excess of killing everything in Greek mythology, in one case with a bridge. I just don't feel it's a game that was meant to stand up to analysis as a literary work, nor should it be judged by those standards.
Nothing gets better unless it is held to higher standards. That was his and my point. Video gaming doesn't have to be a pointless time waister.