Extra Punctuation: An Invisible Protagonist
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Also, there was the level "Casing the Joint" in Theif 2, where you were supposed to infiltrate and map out a big mansion before they moved in the objects you needed to steal. You had to do that without any of the guards even seeing you and the more in the level you moved around, the more they began to close in on your location, so the less impact you left, the better. That was my favorite level in the whole game.
I see his point, and it sounds like a good game, but I would never get it. And thats becuase even though I love stealth games, I suck at them. I never got past that mission in thief two (partly because the game kept crashing ever five minutes) as my whole strategy was knocking people out or just running away from the rooms where the alarm was blaring. And I was playing that on easy. This game would be just too hard for me.
Been there done that.. All I can say is that I love drinking from the wells in ADOM. <3
With enought luck, it can grant your character permanent invisibility if you can make a wish, just wish for "invisibility"
It makes the game almost possible to do, too bad that there still exists monsters in that game that can detect invisible players :/
With enought luck, it can grant your character permanent invisibility if you can make a wish, just wish for "invisibility"
It makes the game almost possible to do, too bad that there still exists monsters in that game that can detect invisible players :/
Ghost Trick is a variation on this. You don't get to do things regular humans can do, but you do ALOT of sneaking/eavesdropping.It's a very unique game and I suggest it for everyone.
So basically Ghost Trick.
Have you played it yet, mr. Yahtzee?
Tis quite fun, and probably the only game where amnesia works as a plot device. (Hint: the obvious answer isn't the right one)
Have you played it yet, mr. Yahtzee?
Tis quite fun, and probably the only game where amnesia works as a plot device. (Hint: the obvious answer isn't the right one)
I would love to see a game where you play as a ghost...I'm not sure how it would work at all...but it would open up some new gameplay mechanics...
This reminds me of something that actually happened:
Last year I was visiting my ex-girlfriend and we were in the kitchen making tea.
We had just poored some water in a big heavy mug and were talking when the mug all of a sudden tilted over a bit, made a full circle and stood still again.
I took the mug and lifted it to see if maybe the bottom was curved or something like that, but it wasn't.
I looked at my girlfriend and said: "did you see that too?"
"yes!" was the wide eyed response, accompanied by a nervous smile.
Her mother told us later that day she had seen the ghost of a woman in the house.
After reading Yahtzee's take on invisible protagonists I feel it must have been a government experiment. Much easier on the mind.
Last year I was visiting my ex-girlfriend and we were in the kitchen making tea.
We had just poored some water in a big heavy mug and were talking when the mug all of a sudden tilted over a bit, made a full circle and stood still again.
I took the mug and lifted it to see if maybe the bottom was curved or something like that, but it wasn't.
I looked at my girlfriend and said: "did you see that too?"
"yes!" was the wide eyed response, accompanied by a nervous smile.
Her mother told us later that day she had seen the ghost of a woman in the house.
After reading Yahtzee's take on invisible protagonists I feel it must have been a government experiment. Much easier on the mind.
My biggest problem with Crysis 2 was that even though you were invisible, your shadow was still showing, and it took me out of the game because even if you aren't visible, aren't there tons of other things the guards could have noticed?
You know Yathzee, you should totally start your own development studio...You'd be like the new Notch!
This concept kinda reminds me of that quest in obilvion where you have to slowly kill everybody trying not to make the others in the house supisious of you.That was so much fun wandering around waiting till one of them walked into a room to do someethen shut the door kill the person then run out fo the room so the others couldnt pin point it was you.
I think it would work really well if done right and as a huge stealth player i would to play it.
Also i had a similar problem with crysis 2 i snuck around alot going from cover to cover in cloak mode abd found myself wander past lots of troops wondering if i was supposed to be doing it
I think it would work really well if done right and as a huge stealth player i would to play it.
Also i had a similar problem with crysis 2 i snuck around alot going from cover to cover in cloak mode abd found myself wander past lots of troops wondering if i was supposed to be doing it
I did a similar thing in Oblivion. I got so good at making myself invisible, I could creep up behind pretty much anyone and chop 'em in the neck from behind.. (insta-kill at my level) it would startle their friends briefly, but then they'd settle back down to their old routine and then I'd do them in the neck too.. it made the combat so BOOORING...Cronox said:
It brings up an interesting point about AI. As a visible player, we expect the AI to chase and attack us because they can see us (actually, they can't ... they can't *see* anything). It's a moderately simple AI task depending on how deep you get into it and it's something that can be done well enough to be believable.
But to have an invisible assailant in the room adds a dimension to AI that's not been required before. It should put the heebyjeebies up anyone who's just seen their friend just die in front of them with no apparent cause. They shouldn't just revert back to their regular patrol saying "Perhaps it was nothing" - WTF, Your fiend just died!. They should freak out or raise the alarm, or try to find you by looking for clues, footprints, listening for breathing, letting off a fire extinguisher in the hope of making part of you visible... such a game would stand out as a Master Class in game AI in much the same way as Half Life stood out for it's scripted set pieces and apparent AI teamwork.
Funny, the cloest to a game of that concept I know of is Geist for the Gamecube.
The trouble with it though is that the bad guys are somewhat already aware that the hero you're play as is a ghost running around their evil lair, but that doesn't stop you from scaring the heck out of people and possessing their bodies.
The trouble with it though is that the bad guys are somewhat already aware that the hero you're play as is a ghost running around their evil lair, but that doesn't stop you from scaring the heck out of people and possessing their bodies.
Or, hey, you could whisper in a guard's ear so he turns round and opens fire at the 'intruder'...only to hit a fellow guard. A means of getting rid of guards without leaving an obvious trail
I'd like to add another hypothetical gameplay mechanic to what could become a rather samey game:
Although invisible, you still have a reflection.
This could allow you to see your character, which could help for characterisation, and could also help to add a kind of puzzle element to it -- working out what the field of vision is for guards as they pass and ensuring you aren't spotted -- could make for a very unique game indeed.
The whole game wouldn't have to be based around this mechanic, but it would be an interesting one to have to pop up occasionally.
Although invisible, you still have a reflection.
This could allow you to see your character, which could help for characterisation, and could also help to add a kind of puzzle element to it -- working out what the field of vision is for guards as they pass and ensuring you aren't spotted -- could make for a very unique game indeed.
The whole game wouldn't have to be based around this mechanic, but it would be an interesting one to have to pop up occasionally.
Player: "Behind you."Pallindromemordnillap said:
Guard:Wha? *turns* blam blam
Guard 2: "What the hell moron you killed him!"
Guard: "erm... There was a bad guy behind me."
Guard 2: "Give me your gun."
I would like the game the story could be about stealing tech to help improve you so going invisble doesn't hurt so much, cause medical issues, ect. As I am sick of government and evil PMC lets switch those a good PMC fighting a corrupt government by stealing tech to prevent a war and buff their invisible agent.
Sounds like it could get sort of dull. Maybe if it was a short game...
The mechanics for being completely unseen are interesting though. It's a little ridiculous how forgiving some NPCs in some games, especially Metal Gear Solid are. I remember in the first game shooting a man in the chest with my .45. He immediately had a question mark float over his head, went to investigate at a leisurely pace, and upon seeing no one present, he decided that nothing was wrong. Some people are a little too forgiving of specters.
The mechanics for being completely unseen are interesting though. It's a little ridiculous how forgiving some NPCs in some games, especially Metal Gear Solid are. I remember in the first game shooting a man in the chest with my .45. He immediately had a question mark float over his head, went to investigate at a leisurely pace, and upon seeing no one present, he decided that nothing was wrong. Some people are a little too forgiving of specters.
I like stealth games as much as the next person I suppose, but a truly invisible person. That would be a bit much. Plus, a lot of modern cameras (especially for high-end government facilities) already have thermal cameras at least in some of the rooms. Thermal sensor arrays, motions sensors, and the like. The problem with stealth in games is that it requires an obscene amount of finesse (which might not all lie on the gamer to provide, but the developer) but more than that stealth is very passive. People tend not to like passive anything in general. Obviously, there are exceptions.
This is why I like Splinter Cell: Conviction. Everyone said, "That's not stealth! You can hardly sneak by anyone and them not know you're there!" Well, it's not sneaking stealth I grant you that. Here me out. It's dynamic stealth. This is something not a lot of people do. Conviction wasn't about getting by like a ghost. It was about being the specter of death. They're all going to die and they don't even know what hits them. They're two sides of the same school, and any good stealth game will incorporate levels of both.
Still, I see your game having this kind of dynamic potential. Sure, there's a lot room for the more traditional fly-on-the-wall kind, but what about having to move across traffic? You have to do it quickly (something the average stealth player doesn't like. You couldn't most likely use a cross walk for fear of alerting a pedestrian, so you have to go around the cars as they inch forward in gridlock traffic. You couldn't go behind them because the exhaust going around your body would be an obvious tell to anyone looking.
If it's not obvious I spend a lot of time thinking about immersion. I don't like that you can't see your feet in a lot of first person situations, so to speak. I call for more dynamics in games in general, because let's face it. Even your best stealth games reduce things down to some pretty standard formulas. I don't know if it's ever entirely avoidable, it's probably not. I think Dynamic Gameplay would go a long way though.
This is why I like Splinter Cell: Conviction. Everyone said, "That's not stealth! You can hardly sneak by anyone and them not know you're there!" Well, it's not sneaking stealth I grant you that. Here me out. It's dynamic stealth. This is something not a lot of people do. Conviction wasn't about getting by like a ghost. It was about being the specter of death. They're all going to die and they don't even know what hits them. They're two sides of the same school, and any good stealth game will incorporate levels of both.
Still, I see your game having this kind of dynamic potential. Sure, there's a lot room for the more traditional fly-on-the-wall kind, but what about having to move across traffic? You have to do it quickly (something the average stealth player doesn't like. You couldn't most likely use a cross walk for fear of alerting a pedestrian, so you have to go around the cars as they inch forward in gridlock traffic. You couldn't go behind them because the exhaust going around your body would be an obvious tell to anyone looking.
If it's not obvious I spend a lot of time thinking about immersion. I don't like that you can't see your feet in a lot of first person situations, so to speak. I call for more dynamics in games in general, because let's face it. Even your best stealth games reduce things down to some pretty standard formulas. I don't know if it's ever entirely avoidable, it's probably not. I think Dynamic Gameplay would go a long way though.