Extra Punctuation: Building Sequels Badly

[TurboPanda]

I think its unfair to blame bad squeals entirely on fans. Fans want more of what made the first game so successful. Publishers also want more of the same things that made the first game so successful. Now try to innovate when both groups of people you are trying to please just want more of the same.

Ignoring the fans will not stop the never ending tide of squeals. If developers really want to move the series forward they need to stop listening to cash hungry publishers. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and this is never going to happen as you don't bite the hand that feeds you. (eg infinity ward)

 

[Toeys]

dont really care if it has already been said. Sequels arent as good as the original because the developers are forced to make sure the game actually gets bought. Easiest way to cater to the fans is then by continuing on the same story elements as before. Then they can make the games more accessible for a bigger audience by making key gameplay elements simpler to understand.

Thats my feeling when it comes to Portal 2 and ofcourse Mass Effect 2. Both games that i love, but far from as much as the originals. So my feeling is that you cant get away from sequels turning up less fantastic than the original is basically cause of money.

About naming games that are better than the original storywise etc: Max Payne 2. I really felt this was way darker than the original and also Max Payne himself actuelly looked more like who i felt i was controlling. But im not going to say they did anything daring with the actual game mechanics.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. Hell, you've even said as much, which I find amusing. But, as to your point about not supplying sequels to games that don't require one, whilst being a mouthy supporter of not putting in a cliffhanger ending seems like you're not much for the continuation of an IP. But, regardless of that, Portal 2 was exactly what was expected--a Portal story, telling us more about Aperture, letting us play with some new toys, and getting another fun song. Then they had the co-op section, which was the real challenge, since most of us knew how to solve puzzles using only two portals, and this now integrate four portals and required competitive and cooperative thought to figure out the puzzles.

 

[Thammuz]

Personally, i think the "new" GladOS is just the logical conseguence of the first game.

All through Portal 1 you had this feeling something was off. True, GladOS wasn't really that good at scare tactics but the intention was there nonetheless. Then you get to the point where she actually tries to kill you, and shit gets real.

After that point it only makes sense for GladOS to drop the pretense. You know as well as she does that she is dangerous and she's out to get you, putting up a façade is redundant at that point. The whole part about her control over the facility doesn't make sense, i agree, especially considering it was never hinted at in the previous title, but then again if you're going to have an antagonist you need it to have means to endanger you, besides giving them a motive to actually do it.

SPOILERS AHEAD

That's why I also liked Wheatley's turn as villain. Because he feels more like the original GladOS at the beginning, only inept, and then he starts going mental, scaring you not by consciously trying to kill you but by being a massive incompetent with a lot of pent up rage.

IMO, portal 2 works very well. The puzzles are there they're varied and a substantial amount, plus there's DLC on the horizon that will also be free for the PC users, and even thoguht the plot can occasioanlly force the puzzles to take a back seat, it only really happens once and it just marks the transition from one set of puzzle mechanics to the next.

The plot is still just a framework for the puzzles, though it is bigger and more elaborate than before.

 

[Russian_Assassin]

Dammit Yahtzee! Why are you trying to make me feel dumb for enjoying this game so much?

 

[Agayek]

Yeah go on Yathzee, ruin the co-op story before I've even gotten a chance to play it, you asshole. Grrrr.

Agree with the central point though.

It's okay though, he didn't actually spoil anything. You can still save science worry free.

 

[Grampy_bone]

Sequel which is superior to the original in every way? Baldur's Gate 2. QED

 

[electronicgoat]

I think next Yahtzee should do an article on why he likes remakes.
ALSO; I do like an expanded universe, but I'm not big on expanded characters. Especially with videogames; there's no sense in trying to shove backstory into a silent protagonist.

 

[Blazingdragoon04]

"Name me one sequel to a game that wasn't left open for sequels, with the same main characters as before, whose story was regarded as better than the first."

Chrono Cross?

That and maybe Advance Wars: Dual Strike.

 

[restoshammyman]

why you be hatin' on my portal 2 bro.

that game was da bomb.

 

[xerounlimited]

I don't have a ton to say here beyond what Yahtzee said, except that I personally got really giddy when the original Portal made references to the Half-Life continuity.

That and maybe Advance Wars: Dual Strike.

Yes, Advance Wars: Dual strike was superior, but was that really for the story?

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Halo: Combat Evolved wasn't very much left open for a sequel. It wasn't like shut off, but there was no cliff hanger. However, Halo 2 had a much better narrative than it did. Halo 3 wasn't as good as Halo 2 in narrative, but is still was much better than Combat Evolved.

That's the only example I can think of though.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

once again, i both love you and hate you at the same time.

also, you seem to think your opinion is always correct. not everyone hates the games you hate, and not everyone loves the games you love. despite the general response you get from these forums.

 

[xdiesp]

The ugly truth is that in the original ending, Chell successfully escaped while Glados came back online. Nothing else could be inferred. And Portal 2 retcons both clumsily.

Now, don't think I'm so enemy of retcons: it's the "clumsy" part that's important. Portal 2 writers could have worked a bit more on the crucial connection between the two games, and less on Wheatley's verbal diarrhea.

 

[Axelhander]

Yahtzee is genius, and anyone who knows how to read between the lines can see it.

XI doesn't either, but for different reasons. It's pretty good I guess, so I'll let it slide.

We're talking about games, not unpaid second jobs with all the gameplay of utensil sorting while held at gunpoint by conservative game designers with no idea what they're doing.

 

[PhunkyPhazon]

Name me one sequel to a game that wasn't left open for sequels, with the same main characters as before, whose story was regarded as better than the first. Let me help you out: there aren't any.

Any Grand Theft Auto after GTA3.

 

[LostAlone]

Interesting point. I guess if you set squeals in the same universe as the original with different characters, it inherently has to be more original and capable of standing on it's own. Unless it's a poorly written one.

See thats really exactly what a sequel should be. You keep the style, mythology and the art direction and you throw out anything else that wasn't a necessity. You don't have to move far, but you need to move. Can go future, or past, or geographically. You make new characters and a new story thats unique to them.

Of recent sequels, I think Fallout did this most memortably. I won't say that either fallout 3 or new vegas were like world shatteringly orgasmic, but they were both good strong games that stood up by themselves. There's crossover of course, but particularly the way that new vegas just gave you a new guns to play with and new places to go while staying familiar. A well done sequel.

Also, the STALKER series does this VERY well. They all feel the same, but they are each their own game with their own stuff going on. Could maybe do with some new guns and more fleshed out characters to really push that further, but still. Excellent series that always makes you feel part of the world but not treading on the previous games toes.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Extra Punctuation: Building Sequels Badly

Yahtzee takes another look at the ongoing problem of videogame sequels.

Read Full Article

So, I agree with your thesis... but almost none of your supporting evidence. That is assuming that 'listening to your fans' can be a downfall. I don't even think your prime example can really be well maintained as such. Does Portal 2 really seem like it is based on fan responses?

Ultimately though, you have a clear paradox here. Your criticism of any particulars in Portal 2 would fall under 'responses by a fan', so you can't really cite examples of things done wrong in the game without immediately invalidating them.

We can use counter examples though. Things added to the game that had no basis in the previous title, and therefore couldn't be expressly requested. Like the inclusion of the Cave Johnson set of test chambers. They would seem to indicate a desire on the part of the creator to do something based on their own creative impetus outside the bounds of the fan demands.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Name me one sequel to a game that wasn't left open for sequels, with the same main characters as before, whose story was regarded as better than the first. Let me help you out: there aren't any.

I find it interesting how many people have responded to this quote, and then give bad examples! Look at the various points:

1) Wasn't left open for a sequel.
2) The same main characters
3) Story is regarded as better

Most people seem to have forgot that middle one in there. I'm not saying there are NOT good responses to his challenge, but I've seen, for example, Chrono Cross. That game has basically none of the same characters. Others list off games that had basically no story... but those are clearly 'left open for a sequel'. That doesn't mean the same thing as 'do not have a cliff hanger.'

Just thought I'd point this out.

 

[LazyAza]

I have the complete opposite opinion to Yahtzee when it comes to sequels. I almost always enjoy them a heck of alot more than the originals and in the case of Portal 2 well I'm playing that game a third time now whereas the first I played once.