Extra Punctuation: Hating Warhammer 40k and Space Marine

[Normandyfoxtrot]

I agree that Space Marine is a terrible game that managed to ruin a handful of decent enough ideas with a lot of meh. It is also a terrible ambassador of it's over all universe and that's probably my biggest hate of it. As far as the universe I think Yahtzee is wrong, but expecting some one who isn't mind you any kind of journalist to do due research is probably just expecting too much.

 

[commodore96]

I think his overall ignorance made this article very boring to read.

 

[mjc0961]

I don't care much for Space Marine or whatever it is either. The most interesting thing I got from that is that he played Gears 3. Hopefully the review of that is coming soon.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

At any rate, I guess this is why I rely on Yahtzee for two things: humor, and the occasional game recommendation. If I need a review of a game, I can either use another website, or just the Escapist's reviews, simply because they're not burdened by the load of having to make their assessment funny.

I was a bit baffled by his depiction of the 40k universe, though. I can't remember the last time anyone was depicted as taking an admirable point of view when they talked about "the glory of battle." In the Gaunt's Ghosts books especially, war isn't glorified in the slightest. And his literal interpretation of the "there is only war" stuff just comes across as petty, like 40k stole his girlfriend and he's scrambling for reasons to insult it.

And, bizarrely, he literally summed the game up as being exactly like Gears of War. I'm questioning whether or not he actually played the game around that point, and given his previous rantings, it's clear that he wants it to be one thing and is dead set on depicting it to be that.

It's a damn shame. I've seen him rant and be funny at the same time before, but this is just...weird, like comparing a racist rant to a sketch from the Chappelle show. With previous stuff, it at least felt like he was enjoying it, but now it's just blind hate.

 

[KingHodor]

I always thought that WH40K was very much different from any other type of military Sci-Fi because its tongue has been pretty much surgically attached to the inside of its cheek.

Most military Sci-Fi seems to be all about glorifying the heroic exploits of their warrior protagonists, and how their will to fight makes them so much better than the pitiful civilians. Heck, someone once showed me a novel where an alien-besieged Federal Republic of Germany used alien biotechnology to rejuvenate their WW2 veterans and re-establish the Waffen-SS (complete with railgun-equipped "Tiger III" tanks), and anyone who disagreed with this brilliant plan was implied to be a pinko liberal traitor to humanity by the (American) author.

In WH40K, on the other hand, it is made abundantly clear that the space marines, for all their badassery, are completely brainwashed crusaders fighting for a corrupt theocracy that would probably be considered pure evil were it not for the fact that their opponents are either even more evil or simply outside of any definition of "morality".

 

[Frankster]

Let's think about this for a moment. In a game and setting dominated by big, burly men in equally big, burly armor, the inclusion of a female character would had to have been something the creators went out of their way to do. And if they would go out of their way to put a female character in a situation where her authority is questioned, they would have had to recognize the possible (or maybe intentional) sexist implications. She didn't "happen" to be a woman, she was deliberately made a woman. Don't underplay the issue.

The creators might have been deliberately made a woman, but her authority due to gender isn't what is questioned, that was yahtzee misreading the scene.
Rather the space marine asking is surprised because she is the ONLY officer left alive, and a low ranking one at that.

"At one point the boy's club happens upon an outpost commander who has been talked up by other characters for a while and discovers that she's an attractive young lady. "Oh god, you chunky fucks are going to be taken aback by this, aren't you," I predicted. And sure enough, they were, in the least emotional possible way"

You see where yahtzee got it wrong? He read the line as sm going "wat ?a gurl in command" and in doing so he misreads the scene and his understanding of 40k worsens.

As for downplaying the issue and whether the guy writing the dialogue realized the possible intentional/misintentional sexist implications of that particular line and was trying to bring an up an issue or seek to play a little joke on the players prejudices....
Eugh...Do you really want to chat about that? That topic doesn't enthrall me, would rather go back to bitching/white knighting 40k.

 

[Living Cover]

Hm. I thoroughly enjoyed the game from start to finish. But I suppose it should be mentioned I play tabletop Warhammer 40K (Orks) and love the Dawn of War strategy series

 

[Ampersand]

I felt like this game with just a few adjustments could have been really really good, but as it stands it's just alright.

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

Why are any of your surprised the skinny nerdy man who loves fantasy, wears a stupid hat, and has a pretentious beard doesn't like military fiction?

40K isn't really "military fiction" though. It is absurd. We're talking about a world where 9 ft tall super-soldiers paint their power armour in bright, primary colors because in the dark future of the 41st millennium, camo is apparently for pussies.

Most of the vehicles are ridiculous. The designs of the rhinos and land raiders just couldn't work. Now for your average 13 year old kid, realism isn't necessary. But to call this game military fiction demands a basic level of believability.

40K is juvenile, and it's juvenile in that particular style of trying to pretend it's adult. It tries so hard to be GRIMDARK that it trips all over itself and looks like a clown. How many terrain pieces for 40K do you see that have evidence that people once lived on the battlefield that is being fought over- you know, broken appliances, every day rubbish (note, not rubble) in the streets, maybe a child's toy left behind because the family had to evacuate without even the time to look back? Now how many terrain pieces for 40K do you see that are strewn with skulls for no particular reason other than perhaps that the Spikey Marines like stacking skulls in their free time?

I don't agree with everything Yahtzee said here (I'm in the hobby for the painting converting, and I got into miniature gaming because of the terrible people I used to have available to table-top RP with.) But those things are opinions, and it doesn't threaten me if not everyone shares mine. But as for the general character of the game- I think he's spot-on.

If you want that narrow definition than every non-historical based military piece or writing is "ridiculous" including star ship troopers which is supposed to be the A standard for military-fiction.

 

[theultimateend]

Well I've read the Horus Heresy novels. And yes, the 40k universe is incredibly retarded, but it's fun, and it's fantasy, and it doesn't really matter that it makes no sense on an economic level.

As always however, a very funny article.

Don't expect this to be the popular response.

But it is pretty spot on (as someone else who read HH).

 

[ProtoChimp]

Oh, butthurt has been generated. I'm bookmarking this thread for future chuckles.

Reminds me of MovieBob's Expendables review. Classic, claissic reactions.

 

[NickCaligo42]

Not impressed by this article. Played Space Marine myself, and... yeah, it's really not that great, but Gears of War? Pretty damn off the mark. Gears of War is meant to make you feel slow, lumbering, and stupid (developers' own words), Space Marine's meant to make you feel huge and unstoppable. If I had to draw a comparison, I'd say it's more like a scaled back Ratchet and Clank game without the benefit of jumping mechanics, platforming, and puzzles. Don't get me wrong, it's really a mediocre-to-average game that doesn't deserve a defense from me, but if you're gonna call it out on being a knockoff at least get the details right.

What bugs me about WH40K is that it PRETENDS to have a back-story but doesn't really. There's just no real explanation of motivations, economy, politics, etc. And from the extremely limited story that is there, these other levels of detail are rendered impossible. It's just WE KILL THEM, and THEY KILL US. That's it.

Uhh? No. It's got very, very extensive backstory. The rulebooks are 90% fluff, 5% actual game rules, and 5% images of miniatures to give you painting ideas. There's whole huge series of novels devoted to it, some of which are actually best-sellers, and four different tabletop role-playing games devoted to the 40k universe. I only recently got into 40k after years of dismissing it just like you did, and I found it was on par with anything Tolkein or Frank Herbert ever did. Just sillier. Much, much, much sillier. But, eh, hater's gonna hate. I suppose it's a bit much for me to expect you to approach this rationally.

 

[jyork89]

Wow Mr Croshaw. I'm sure you realized the amount of fanboy rage this article would unleash. In saying that, I myself have never really had any interest in the Warhammer universe. I had a friend that used to do war gaming, WW2, and he only mentioned Warhammer has being similar, yet infinitely more complex and daunting. As such the only other mentions of the game I hear are from fans who seem to have a quest to educate the world of the entire back story. Can't really verify any of your points, for as I mention, I have little exposure to the series, but from what little exposure I have had this article seems to be pretty accurate.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

This article sounds more like a expanded part of one of Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation rants then his usual writing.

 

[Raso719]

If Warhammer 40k: Space Marines were a Japanese game and was, more or less, the exact same game but with a different franchise plastered onto it and some other sci-fi or fantasy stetting in the place of what we currently have but it was, over all, exactly the same plot and game play we would go on and on about how much the melee sucks, how clunky the gun play is and how over the top and stupid the action is.

The combos are no better than Dynasty Warriors, the gun play isn't "tight" and the world is as dark and gritty as you'd expect an American game to be. But still we praise it for being fun and defend it because it's from an IP that we westerners love and all of that jive. But mark my words if this game were based on an anime or some other Japanese game IP we wouldn't be so forgiving about it's short comings and blandness.

It really boggles my mind, it really does.