Extra Punctuation: Mixing Single and Multiplayer

[Kanatatsu]

Yahtzee: there are LOADS of single player games.

As someone who pretty much only plays co-op games (because I like to play with a friend who is a long way away), I can tell you that the co-op market is dreadful and there are many gamers just like me who want more co-op, not less.

So kindly fuck off with the whining and enjoy the 95% of games that are single player (or where co-op is totally optional.

Thanks.

 

[CrawlingPastaHellion]

I bet you my right hand that somebody in this thread either already did or will make a Portal reference out of this one.

 

[iamultraman]

Considering that multiplayer experiences are in proportion, with respect to quality, to technology, we can't really comment on it or its storytelling capabilities until we have the best devices to present multiplayer games (like splitscreen glasses, which is a greater indicator of the future to me compared to hover cars (hover cars are a pretty dumb idea, by the way)). Instead I'll just comment on mariachis.

F4AR: Mexican Food at the Price of Death

 

[Anapingofness]

=_________+;;;

Thank you, Yahtzee, for saying this. (This being that developers should stop mixing Single and Multiplayer) I have been saying this for years... YEARS!!!

And people just look at me like I killed their favorite dog or ate the last slice of pizza.

Dear God... You have no idea how happy this article made me.

 

[Metalrocks]

i do agree that it sucks that most game focus too much on MP and co-op. fear 1 was really good and had a great time.
fear 2 was starting to be lame but had at least a decent shooter experience and some scary moments. the school was still the creepiest part of the game in my opinion.
fear 3 has only a good shooter element but the scary factor is zero. this title is disappointing because of the co-op mode.
but games like L4D which are mend to be played with other people or friends, this works fine. i still enjoy these games and also TF2 which is still the best MP game in my book. also because it has no story you have to focus on.

but i really like to have a good SP game were the MP is not the focus. mirrors edge, for example, has just a little MP mode but was mainly focused on the SP. people were complaining that the game sucks, mainly because it has no real MP mode and therefor not worth the money. how f***ing stupid is that. a game does not suck just because it has no MP. it feels like every damn game today must have MP.
but then i ask my self why mass effect is selling so well. it has no MP and the games are as famous as star wars.
i dont mind if a game has SP and MP together as long there is no interference between them. if the SP lets me enjoy the game by my self for many hours, im happy. thats all i want. if i want a MP game, then i get it or should be as good and entertaining as a SP game does.

 

[ultrachicken]

I think the concept while fear 3 was in development was to create a co-op scenario where you're forced to work with someone in a tenuous alliance. Fettel isn't really a good ally, as even though he's occasionally helpful, he's also a cannibalistic lunatic. He is untrustworthy. Part of the tensity that the devs were going for was supposed to come from this. Of course they screwed it up, but you have to give them credit for trying something new. They could simply allow the series to stagnate like CoD, but they chose to take a risk.

 

[Frostbyte666]

Totally agree with Yahtzee here. How many games have you changed your mind about buying because of coop, or been ruined because of it. I was looking forward to FEAR 3 to see the next step in the plot, then I found out about coop and it became a case of well that's gone down the toilet. Also to those saying but Demon Souls did it right, ok fine, wow...1 game did it right. How many have been ruined because of it again?

 

[andreas3K]

If a game needs other people to make it entertaining, it's a bad game.

 

[mastiffchild]

I understand your point,Yahtzee, i really do.
But then again,some people just like to play with friends , to a game with no care in the world for the plot or the immersion, and just have fun and having something to chew on when the chat goes dry.

But that's his point-he,(and I'm TOTALLY with him even though I enjoy co-op, MP and SP equally)doesn't want CAMAIGNS ruined by the fashion for co-op or MP style scoring ranks as it detracts(esp in a tense or survival horror)from the story and the immersion. Look at the way a SP gamer had to put up with the effin awful AI for Sheva in RE5 for instance. She was only there TO allow co-op and when played alone she got in the way, used health items randomly and was often puzzled by things like stairs. In fact I ended up giving her the rifles(shes a computer so she xcan use it close up unlike me)and anything useless but, really, all it did was turn the game into a babysitting sim for baby minded matey AI and in LP2 the issue was tripled!! I DID play it first in co-op but, naturally, any "scary" game played with a mate(or , even worse, a random)just becomes a funny, laughavble game experience.


Halo can usually manage to allow both SP and co-op so, surely, just ALLOW it in games suited to it and don't force it down the throat of SP gamers-and even more so if your series, like FEAR and RE, is built on classic SP. It kills story, gameplay and immersion when leaking iinot the campaign proper.

In L4D it works because the SP doesn't pretend to be a real game but mere training for co-op and also gets away, when RE can't, because it's more a survival by beating sheer numbers s the fear is being overwhelmed, in the main, with little story to ruin.

 

[uguito-93]

fuck Pride and Prejudice haunted me in highschool and i cant even escape it here

 

[veloper]

Gaming could be one of the most exciting new forms of storytelling in all media but you're all cancelling Pride & Prejudice to show the Friday night football.

Gimme football please.
Great analogy there, Yahtzee.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

Oh Yahtzee, how I can relate, falling over drunk after a conga line, then giggling like a little girl just isn't for me

I think it's a good idea to build in Co op from the ground up on certain games (L4D), but I agree that slapping it in there because your game is boring just ruins it further.

Personally I also think that Co op is just what modern day military shooters need for their campaigns, It works well for Halo, so why not CoD/ BF. But like I said, this needs to be something built from the ground up. Imagine BF:BC, where everyone gets to be a certain guy... I'm trademarking that shit.

 

[saxxon.de]

I don't think the problem is so much mixing single and multiplayer, its doing it in a hamfisted manner where you just sort of shove co-op stuff into your single player game.

Take Demon's Souls, the messaging system, the bloodstains, the white phantoms all add to feel of the game. The threat of having a black phantom invade while you're playing in body form. Teaming up with someone as a blue phantom to get some revenge on a boss that pissed you off. It all works very well, and adds to the atmosphere of the game rather than ruin it.

I was going to say that. Thanks for doing it, so I don't have to.

Also, Stall is right in his post a page back. I can't even count anymore, how often I survived something in my first playthrough just because a message or bloodstain hinted at the threat. Not to mention all the fine folks helping me out with the Flamelurker or Penetrator. The first time I became the level's boss in 3-3 for another poor guy was one of the most thrilling experiences I ever had in gaming. But I suppose if you just got crushed all the time and didn't kill anything you might rant about one of the best games from the last decade.

 

[Dhatz]

best way is to have stuff like max payne 2 but have mona always be doable instead of max and a separate solo from coop mode. random coop is only for games like L4D. ALso all main characters have to be coopable if in coop mode.

 

[Nomanslander]

Yahtzee: I really wish console games would stop trying to mix single and multiplayer.

So says the man that hates MP and just all other homo sapients to begin with. What's next? Should we ask if Moviebob thinks PS3/360 should go belly up and Nintendo should buy up all their exclusive IPs and Mario-fy them?

(kinda like Disney-fy but made overly yet unintentionally racist and nonsensical)

I mean seriously, MovieBob thought this rendition of the Prince of Persia main would be much better..../facepalm

Spoiler

 

[mrdude2010]

pride and prejudice sucked i would be happy if they cancelled it for football

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

Not just "yes" ... Hell yes.


I remember a few years back, I was gullible enough to buy a CoD or MW or BF or WTF first person shooter game. I don't remember which, as I threw the box against the wall in frustration about 4 hours after I'd gotten home, because I BEAT THE FUCKING GAME.

Seriously, one night, in two brief sittings only separated by a quick meal break... I beat the entire campaign mode. WTF is this? Perhaps I was just naive, but I had no idea that I was buying a strictly multiplayer game with a token campaign as a cock-tease. That should be front and center on the box art. "This is just really just a re-skin of every other FPS Death Match and capture the flag. You didn't actually expect us to put in effort, did you?"




For what it's worth... I remember it was the game that got a shit-ton of publicity for letting you participate in some terrorist shoot em up of an airport, before getting shot in the face yourself (oh btw, spoiler alert: you get shot in the face and die) And truth be told, I didn't actually throw it against the wall in anger, though I probably should have. Rather, I dejectedly removed the game from my XBox, but it back in the case and set it on my shelf, where it's still collecting dust. I could probably go over there and check the title, but it's not worth the effort.

 

[SurrealFactory]

I get what he's saying, but I think (and hope) plot is do-able in co-op games. It isn't going to be easy, but I think it could expand our horizons. We can watch serious movies with friends, why not play games?

 

[DigitalAtlas]

Whose going to tell him F.3.A.R isn't developed by Monolith?

 

[IkeGreil29]

Simply put, the third installment was shit. I tend to avoid cussing in forum posts because it makes you sound dumb, but there's no other way to put it. FEAR 1 and 2 I feel did do horror correctly enough for me to be emotionally beat up after I played them and stop 2 hours before bedtime just so that my mind would calm down. The unofficial Perseus and Extraction Point expansions also did all of this marvelously, putting you in crazy situations. But Fear 3 just lost everything it had going for itself. From the day I saw Lith was not deving the game, I knew it could never reach the same quality. Maybe I was too much into it, I usually am with games.

Regenerating health turned me and my brother into stupid rush in and shoot everything machines instead of a part of a government agency soldier fighting impossible odds using strategy to get around it. Fear 2 had already lost some of that, what with the AI seemingly becoming generic shooter AI, but its implementation of better graphics and more story kept me craving for more.

In short, it should be buried below ground and we should just take Perseus and Extraction Point as cannon to avoid this ridiculous attempt at making a third installment to a game that had a good fan base.