Extra Punctuation: Roleplaying Homosexual in Dragon Age 2

[TheDarkestDerp]

This was perfect. It's become amazingly apparent to me how deeply people's insecutirty runs when it comes to sexuality and sex. People as a whole seem to miss what 'love' is completely only focusing on it as a tertiary matter behind the first two points.

Having been with Males, female and Transgendered lovers, yes there are THREE "sexes", I know this much for a FACT:

We are all people, all souls, and regardless of the flesh that coats us, who we are underneath it is ALL that matters. When the lights go out, and we're just conscious thoughts being expressed, our bodies do NOT express our love for one another.

"The long and the short of it is, if you honestly can't find something beautiful in the self-sacrificing devotion between two people just because they're both trouser-wearers, then I pity you, I really do."

Yahtzee, you rock, good sir. *tips her top hat*

 

[luckycharms8282]

Wise words you spouted there, Yahtzee. I agree whole heartedly. It seems irl the people who have the biggest issue with sexuality are the ones who seem to be sexually insecure.

Im a guy attracted to chicks but I still enjoy making good humored bum chum jokes with male friends. I know Im not gay so I dont mind making jokes like that.

On a related note, gay marriage needs to be legalized, already.

 

[Zydrate]

This is essentially how I roleplay on World of Warcraft. All of my characters pretty much start out as either "Bi" or "Sexually apathetic (read: Asexual)... And they evolve from where the community takes them. I have one bisexual bard guy, who I adore.

Admittedly, It's no real surprise that most of my men characters still end up straight and my females end up, well. Do the math.

 

[ark123]

I think...this is my favorite article by Yahtzee ever.
I feel the same way, but I'm not sure I could put it so eloquently.

 

[LogicNProportion]

Why are people so homophobi?

Its not your going to get the case of the "gays" by playing a game... haha

Always fun to poke fun at homophobis go and "hit" on them its funny as all hell how mad they get.

I dunno, Metal Gear Solid 3's Naked Snake/Big Boss made me bi... : I

All kidding aside (I love you Boss!) I would like to cite the number one rule I make for myself when playing any sort of RPG:

NEVER BREAK CHARACTER!!!

I made a gay elf in DA:O, and he was my favorite character ever! He didn't start that way, but I figured that because of his emotional baggage because of his lost friend at the beginning (Dalish all the way) and the way Zevran reminded him of his friend, that love blossomed. Plus, he hated the situation he was in, and most of the people he was with, as he HATED humans and dwarves.

In the end, he actually sacrificed himself to take down the Archdemon, because Zevran taught him compassion for others, and while he still held animosity for the other races for what they had done to his kind, he decided they deserved to live to make amends for their past sins.

NEVER.

BREAK.

CHARACTER.

And almost as important.

DEVELOP.

YOUR.

CHARACTER.

 

[Kurokami]

I think it's a sad, sad commentary that so much time and effort is spent discussing the "romances" in bioware games.

He's paid to write about games and the romance in that particular game, with all the controversy surrounding it interested him, lighten up dude.

OT: I find myself playing the same way that Yahtzee described here, simply playing the game and not deciding on the outset 'I SHALL BONE TALI' etc That being said, I cant say I've ever had a gay character in my experience with RPG's... Hmmm.

I roleplay quite a bit, and my favorite character type has always been the manipulative, control/power obsessed bastard... That being said, it's lead to some leading on of either sex to get my way.

My characters do tend to be asexual though as I have an issue with intimacy in general.

 

[Luthir Fontaine]

Yeah I guess it would.So when one of them knocks the shit out of you for doing that are you going to take them to court for a hate crime?

Baa they all hit like girls. Beside why so mad?

 

[Tanfastic]

So it's really only two guys versus three girls that we can romance?
That hardly seems to warrant all the gay bashing this game has been getting.

Including DLC there's 3 guys to romance (The DLC is strictly straight.) and 2 girls, although you can flirt with Avaline but it can't go far.

 

[Luthir Fontaine]

Because gays are scary dude...

Haha. Thats prolly the truth. But seriously, I have gotten into fights with gays who think its cool to hit on me. Why? Because I have to prove I'm manly and not gay. I know I'm not into homosexual stuff but the ladies don't. And yes, its necessary.

I wish it wasn't like that but thats just how it is.

Got to prove your tough by beating up gay guys that made a mistake. Yeah i wouldnt do that. A simple no thanks and moving on. People and their fear of dicks

 

[mrhateful]

My problem with the game was never romancing as a gay, but rather how the dialog in the game forces you to make certain choices. Since you almost always take joke option since no real person is so forceful or such a saint, while in other rpgs you get to choose between some proper options.

Now my opinion on Anders has since awakening been that he was a truly obnoxious person not because he is gay(Actually didn't know he was gay before I came on these forums and read about it), which meant I had very little playtime with him, only taking him when there were no other options aka when I needed a healer.

 

[Luthir Fontaine]

I dunno, Metal Gear Solid 3's Naked Snake/Big Boss made me bi... : I

All kidding aside (I love you Boss!) I would like to cite the number one rule I make for myself when playing any sort of RPG:

NEVER BREAK CHARACTER!!!

I made a gay elf in DA:O, and he was my favorite character ever! He didn't start that way, but I figured that because of his emotional baggage because of his lost friend at the beginning (Dalish all the way) and the way Zevran reminded him of his friend, that love blossomed. Plus, he hated the situation he was in, and most of the people he was with, as he HATED humans and dwarves.

In the end, he actually sacrificed himself to take down the Archdemon, because Zevran taught him compassion for others, and while he still held animosity for the other races for what they had done to his kind, he decided they deserved to live to make amends for their past sins.

NEVER.

BREAK.

CHARACTER.

And almost as important.

DEVELOP.

YOUR.

CHARACTER.

Words to live by!

 

[Squilookle]

Every time he writes about an RPG and the shortcomings he finds in balance, contrived stories and a lack of freedom, it reminds me yet again of Warband, and I think of how much he'd probably enjoy playing it. Then I read him say:

"I suppose it's a significant point in a game's favor that it can provoke this kind of emotion, but I wonder how much of it was intended by the developers and how many blanks were filled in within my crazed mind alone."

And more than ever I begin to wish he'd review the Mount & Blade game. Apart from a few imagination sparking notes to choose from about your character's background, there is no overarching story but the one you create for yourself, and this freedom to build your adventure as you see fit is immensely gratifying. It's also the only RPG I'd ever get into (except perhaps for Deus Ex) because for once it's an RPG without magic and Orcs and elves and all that other fantasy crap.

 

[trooper6]

My problem with the game was never romancing as a gay, but rather how in dialog the game forces you to make certain choices. Since you almost always take joke option since no real person is so forceful or such a saint, while in other rpgs you get to choose between some proper options.

Now my opinion on Anders has since awakening been that he was a truly obnoxious person not because he is gay(Actually didn't know he was gay before I came on these forums and read about it), which meant I had very little playtime with only taking him when there were no other options aka when I needed a healer.

Funny, I almost never chose the joke options. I generally chose the peaceful options (unless people were threatening my family). I felt like I had choices in the dialogue...and I made different choices than you did...so I don't think they forced you into one dialogue choice.

 

[Lex Darko]

So does this mean I am the only person who wanted to blame the theft of the qunari artifact on Anders and subsequently turn him over to the Arishok.

Has far as some heterosexual male gamers bemoaning the romances in DA2 I actually share their position to an extent.

But that's just because the female characters that can be romanced in DA2 don't compare in quality to the female characters in other Bioware games. Really the two choices DA2 for a heterosexual male character come down to a whore and an arrogant, absent-minded twig shaped elf.

David Gaider responded in that thread saying "They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don't see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what's everyone's fuss all about? That's the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want." Original Thread [http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6661775&lf=8]

The homosexual male romance options don't bother me (if they weren't in the game originally modders would have added it the game anyway), the lack of decent heterosexual romance options is what bothers me. And for anyone that says Isabela "the whore of Theadus" and Merrill "the clueless blood mage" are good options try comparing them to other Bioware characters.

Characters like Morrigan, and Leliana of DA:O; or Ash, Liara, Miranda, Jack, and Tali of the Mass Effect series; not to mention the fact that Silk Fox and Dawn Star of Jade empire make DA2's romance plots feel like a comic book compared to a novel.

 

[sylekage]

I like most everything Yahtzee talks about, or rants about, and this was well put together. If you're playing a game, is your homophobia really kicking your ass that bad? I mean you do make the choices, but if something feels right then you gotta roll with it.

I'm not gay myself, but I would probably do the same as him, "Oh, I've been putting this guy at the top of my priority list the whole game, maybe I should see what's going on"

Good article, as always.

 

[mrhateful]

Funny, I almost never chose the joke options. I generally chose the peaceful options (unless people were threatening my family). I felt like I had choices in the dialogue...and I made different choices than you did...so I don't think they forced you into one dialogue choice.

Yes I probably would have too, if I had known what he was going to say, but since I didn't then there were no choice to make other then purely guessing.

 

[latenightapplepie]

I may be biased, but I think this may be the best Extra Punctuation I've ever read.

Good job, Yahtzee.

 

[Falseprophet]

I haven't played DA2 yet, nor really gotten into the relationship aspect of either Mass Effect or DA:O.
Yahtzee mentioned he went with the monogamy option, is there a 'legitimate' bi/polygamy option in the game? Since the monogamy-is-the-only-true-way thing in our society is mainly because of the dominating religions in the past millenia or so it could make sense in a fantasy world with a very different history than ours that no such restrictions would have been made up or enforced. So, how do your other mates react if you keep on pursuing new relationships after getting it on with someone? Will they always get mad if they find out or are there dialogue options to make your other mates accept that you're screwing around with your entire party?

There's not a legitimate option, near as I can tell, and the setting doesn't really suggest legal polygamy is common anywhere on Thedas, though we don't really know much about family values outside of Fereldan and Kirkwall. The Chantry, even though it doesn't have the same hangups about sex and homosexuality that the medieval Catholic Church did, only sanctions monogamous heterosexual marriages. (One exception: male dwarven nobles and warriors are encouraged to regularly fornicate with lower-born female dwarves in the hopes of breeding more upper-caste dwarves [http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarf#Dust_in_the_Wind], but the women aren't brought into the household unless they bear a son.)

I decided early on that my female Hawke would play "Twilight" with Fenris and Anders, since they have completely opposite points of view. Every time I brought both of them along on a mages vs. templars quest, Anders would argue the poor mages needed to be free from Chantry oppression while Fenris would retort that all mages were rabid dogs that needed to be caged.

So I deflowered Fenris during a one-night stand, then dropped him and went and hooked up with Anders. I think there was one or two brothel visits in there. And while in a relationship with Anders, I hooked up with Zevran (though Anders wasn't there to witness that). The only consequence was one bit of party banter where Anders said to Fenris "You were a fool to let her go" and Fenris responded "If you hurt her, I will kill you". It was unexpected but totally in character, showing that whatever else you might think of DA2 vis-a-vis DA:O, the banter in this game is still fantastic.

Interestingly, in the climax,

I killed Anders for betraying me by blowing up the Chantry, but took the Circle's side anyway. So I was forced to kill Fenris too when he sided with the templars. I felt it a fitting end to such a tragic tale. Although Sebastian confessed an attraction so maybe Hawke ended up with him at the end.

 

[Ericb]

Incredibly progressive article, this is greatly appreciated.

 

[bakakun]

Tell us one more time how straight you are, I hope that the excessive "I love the (insert your favorite reference for lady bits)" was ironic. It kinda undercuts the thrust of your argument that this sexual orientation stuff shouldn't matter when you need to take up half the article insuring us that you are in fact a fan of the ladies.