I'm happy for your Hawke. This post kind of moved me (I'm kind of emotional) I like love stories (even boring ones if the love is TRUE)... Probably the reason i hate Twilight so much.
Extra Punctuation: Roleplaying Homosexual in Dragon Age 2
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Well, I'm a gay gamer, and the first time around my Hawke stuck with Merril. Would I ever sleep with a woman? God, no. But she was just too cute. That accent, the way jokes flew over her head, how she's all sweet and sincere but totally has a dark side. How could you not just want to hug her face?
So I don't understand why a straight male would be offended by a digital male hitting on their digital avatar. I might be a bit more understanding about a straight man being offended if that happened in real life, but the reaction and outcry by ~some~ of the straight, male gamers is so homophobic, it's not even offensive anymore. It's far beyond that, edging on disbelief. I honestly didn't even think that kind of hatred even existed outside of third-world countries anymore. Like racism, I just sort of assumed that kind of open contempt was reserved for the uncultured and ignorant. Though I suppose the anonymity of the internet is notoriously good at making thugs out of just about anyone.
That said, I can't say I expected to read about a straight male finding some amount of affection for a gay character in a game, let alone being open about it. I suppose it's a lot like what I felt for Merril. I wasn't ~actually~ interested in her myself, but for that particular playthrough (yes, I made it through several, 4 in fact before I'd had enough) that's who felt right for my Hawke. I'm glad to see there are open-minds out there, and I do in fact see more people standing up for Bioware's decisions than I see people complaining about them. It's a slow process, but the world is definitely changing.
@GUY JACKSON - You're missing a major point. Nowhere in that game, male or female, good or bad, or ANY kind of playthrough, are you FORCED to pick a gay love affair. What the game offers is the option to do so, but you can easily turn them down and stick purely with a friendly relationship with those people. They gain rivalry points, yes, but it's never enough to swing them drastically in the red. I think I got 10 rivalry for turning Anders down, then promptly got like 40 friendship total for doing his quest. What people are in an uproar about, and what Yahtzee is defending, is ~choice~. Nowhere in Yahtzee's article did I see him say you shouldn't have the option to be straight. What I saw was that being offended that you have the choice to be gay is rather ludicrous, and he's right. You for that matter, are as well. Just wanted to say that so you don't think I'm ragging on you, because I'm not. It's perfectly acceptable to want to be a straight male/female, but if you saw some of the things people were posting in response to the possibility of gay relationships in this game, you'd understand the purpose of this article and those like it.
As for your curiosity about the 'belief' that homophobia is often (not always) in conjunction with insecurities about one's manhood, there's scientific evidence behind that. It would be more than easy to find all the research done on it, but that's not something people pull out of the air. One cannot be a cockroach, but one can be gay. So seeing open homosexuality as someone who is trying to hide from it, is likely something that will offend. Sort of like how people hate on someone who is more attractive, richer, etc., than them when in fact they're living the life they wish they could. Not all people feel that way, but it's not an emotion that's difficult to understand, either.
So I don't understand why a straight male would be offended by a digital male hitting on their digital avatar. I might be a bit more understanding about a straight man being offended if that happened in real life, but the reaction and outcry by ~some~ of the straight, male gamers is so homophobic, it's not even offensive anymore. It's far beyond that, edging on disbelief. I honestly didn't even think that kind of hatred even existed outside of third-world countries anymore. Like racism, I just sort of assumed that kind of open contempt was reserved for the uncultured and ignorant. Though I suppose the anonymity of the internet is notoriously good at making thugs out of just about anyone.
That said, I can't say I expected to read about a straight male finding some amount of affection for a gay character in a game, let alone being open about it. I suppose it's a lot like what I felt for Merril. I wasn't ~actually~ interested in her myself, but for that particular playthrough (yes, I made it through several, 4 in fact before I'd had enough) that's who felt right for my Hawke. I'm glad to see there are open-minds out there, and I do in fact see more people standing up for Bioware's decisions than I see people complaining about them. It's a slow process, but the world is definitely changing.
@GUY JACKSON - You're missing a major point. Nowhere in that game, male or female, good or bad, or ANY kind of playthrough, are you FORCED to pick a gay love affair. What the game offers is the option to do so, but you can easily turn them down and stick purely with a friendly relationship with those people. They gain rivalry points, yes, but it's never enough to swing them drastically in the red. I think I got 10 rivalry for turning Anders down, then promptly got like 40 friendship total for doing his quest. What people are in an uproar about, and what Yahtzee is defending, is ~choice~. Nowhere in Yahtzee's article did I see him say you shouldn't have the option to be straight. What I saw was that being offended that you have the choice to be gay is rather ludicrous, and he's right. You for that matter, are as well. Just wanted to say that so you don't think I'm ragging on you, because I'm not. It's perfectly acceptable to want to be a straight male/female, but if you saw some of the things people were posting in response to the possibility of gay relationships in this game, you'd understand the purpose of this article and those like it.
As for your curiosity about the 'belief' that homophobia is often (not always) in conjunction with insecurities about one's manhood, there's scientific evidence behind that. It would be more than easy to find all the research done on it, but that's not something people pull out of the air. One cannot be a cockroach, but one can be gay. So seeing open homosexuality as someone who is trying to hide from it, is likely something that will offend. Sort of like how people hate on someone who is more attractive, richer, etc., than them when in fact they're living the life they wish they could. Not all people feel that way, but it's not an emotion that's difficult to understand, either.
Yahtzee has emotions? I was sort of going off him, but I think this article's made me like him again. The thing with the Tepig? I have to admit, that's kind of... sweet. In a weird "naming my pet after my ex" kind of way, but still sweet.
Hi Foo Bar. Good post. I think I may have failed to make myself entirely clear in my previous post. I'm aware that gay relationships are not forced on the player in DA2. But what *is* forced on the player (correct me if I'm wrong) is gay come-ons and flirts from every male party member. This, for me personally, was not a point in favour of DA2. It's not a show-stopper (I would have bought the game anyway had I not hated the demo gameplay so much) but it's not something I really want, especially as it would make any in-game male friendships rather awkward for me. My complaint is that I don't think it's really fair that I be tarnished with the homophobe/insecure/repressed-homosexual brush because of my preferences. My personal tastes should not justify my being insulted by pro-gay people, just as yours should not justify insults from anti-gay people. I hope that clarifies my position somewhat.
your intention must be that feminism isn't expressed as often! or are we talking about something else?fanklok said:
I think it's a more common misconception by homophobes that someone showing even a gay tendency is somehow an attack on your own sexuality. It's not that a homophobe wants to be gay or not, it's that they see a gay act as an attack on their own sexual identity.Guy Jackson said:
As for DA2, I think Anders is the only character I remember gaining rivalry points for skirting around the romantic option. Hawke winds up having personal moments with all the characters. Anders is a preachy and kinda clingy whether you're a male or female character. Fenris is broody and reflects around Hawke. Isabella propositions or flirts with Hawke several times. Merrill looks for support and friendship. Aveline and Varric both tend to have a sister and brother, respectively, relationship with Hawke, but still have a close personal bond.
There's not really not really much else besides polite skirting around a possibly romantic situation unless you so choose. And after that, every character is back to being more interested in their own personal quests in between your own.
Pish, another article that has me questioning both Yahtzee's taste in games and his sexuality. So what's new...?
(Yeah, yeah kidding!)
Seriously, that was a really interesting read. Personally, I've never tried to role-play as a gay man, but I've done it as a woman before, and I always think I come off as a total drag-queen, even over a chat box.
(Yeah, yeah kidding!)
Seriously, that was a really interesting read. Personally, I've never tried to role-play as a gay man, but I've done it as a woman before, and I always think I come off as a total drag-queen, even over a chat box.
Anders is the only male companion who will try to flirt with you, he does this once, if you shoot him down he never tries again. The other male romance interest is Fenris and he's to busy doing the whole dark, broody thing to openly flirt. This whole bloody debacle is over one tiny patch of dialogue which is over in about 3 seconds. This whole "Dragon Age 2: Gay Indoctrination" thing has been blown way out of proportion as has the whole "If you don't applaud gay people macking you're an evil homophobe/closet gay" /Hyperbole offGuy Jackson said:
It's times like these we need Bobby Kotick and those like him to say something (anything) to appropriately funnel all the excess rage.
'I'm of the opinion that this societal notion that you can only have strong feelings of affection or romance for someone you want to bone is a severely restrictive one.'
~Sansei
~Sansei
Thanks and Kudos to Yahtzee for bringing some valid and genuinely intriguing points into this tiresome debate.
Really, I wonder homo- and heterosexual alike will in 50 years or so stop to conjure up these 'disputes' about whoms right it is or not to put what's his where he wants it.
People manage to coexist with characters of virtually every moral persuasion in their hometown alone, but the gays still polarize enough by simply existing somewhere out there to start butthurt arguments over a lover's freedom of choice.
Really, I wonder homo- and heterosexual alike will in 50 years or so stop to conjure up these 'disputes' about whoms right it is or not to put what's his where he wants it.
People manage to coexist with characters of virtually every moral persuasion in their hometown alone, but the gays still polarize enough by simply existing somewhere out there to start butthurt arguments over a lover's freedom of choice.
Aveline. You missed out Aveline. Ginger hair, first human contact outside of your family, sword and shield? You can flirt with her and get a kiss- it's not as in depth as the other two, but it's there.Vendur said:
So... Isabela, Merril and Aveline makes... three.
And Anders and Fenris makes... two. (Excluding if you got the day one DLC, in which case you get the genuinely hetero Sebastian.)
I think his maths is right. There are other things I could disagree about that were in your post, but someone else all ready dealt with them, and I don't really want an argument.
I think you were merely charmed by Anders, Yahtzee. I haven't gotten to play DA2 just yet, having decided to replay Origins and then Awakening before moving on, but from what I've seen of Anders, the guy's downright charming in his embittered "Fucking Templars!" sort of manner.
Awesome article. Nice to see some sense made of a senseless problem (being Homosexuality in video games). Can't say that I've ever gone down that road before, not having played DA2 yet. But it's still nice that someone who's input I trust when it comes to video games can explore options (and then write about them) that I, otherwise, would not have.
So little time, so many games with multiple paths to replay.
So little time, so many games with multiple paths to replay.
I think the most outrageous example is one of my friend's co-workers who absolutely refused to go see Watchmen because he was told that Dr. Manhattan's penis is visible in a few scenes. Apparently that made it a "fag's movie". /eyerollLuthir Fontaine said:
If we made him play Dragon Age (either of them, really), he's probably throw his 360 out the window at the first hint of a male party member flirting with him.
I do not think there is anything wrong with having homosexual relationships in games but what miffed me off is that they seem to have stamped everyone as bisexual with little thought in how sexuality can effect peoples attitudes and personalities (and no I don't mean by making them overty camp).
I'm a straight guy but i don't really have a problem with gay characters in my game. I do think it's pretty lazy of Bioware to just make everyone bisexual, I think DA:O got it right by having 2 hetros and 2 bi characters. If you really wanna check out the other romances then you can make different character.