Extra Punctuation: Why No Couples in Games?
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Although you make good points Yahtzee, I must add something that really annoys me when it comes to relationships in games and other mediums. I actually think it's a bad idea to start the story with the characters already in a relationship. It's too often used as a poor attempt to try and give the protagonist motivation without any real effort on the part of the writers. You've talked about this yourself before if I'm not mistaken. Too many games start off with "these are the people you are supposed to care about, help them!" I hate it. Just because these characters have some kind of connection that we are told about doesn't make me give a damn about them. Getting to know the characters is what makes me care, but when they do this it just feels lazy and the protagonist's motivation feels empty and pointless.
Persona games. 3 and 4.
Although this one is a bit unrealistic - while you can't date two girls (or guys in PSP version), you can have all of the potential love interests as "I love you, Protagonist" by the end.
...Even the female robot in Persona 3: FES.
Although this one is a bit unrealistic - while you can't date two girls (or guys in PSP version), you can have all of the potential love interests as "I love you, Protagonist" by the end.
...Even the female robot in Persona 3: FES.
Holy crap thanks for reminding. I was like "Oh, so they are doing each other, he's her King and she's his Queen... THE HELL THEY ARE SIBLINGS?!"snowman6251 said:
Indeed not just Jaheira, all of them carry over into TOB. I mean, with Aerie you can have a friggin' baby, which takes up a permanent slot in your inventory. Relationship continuity all about this house.dangoball said:Hm... Thinking of couples in games, Baldur's gate comes to mind. In BG(1) you practically start off with a married couple of Jaheira and Khalid which caries over to BG2 and by that time you have motivation to care for Khalid and understand Jaheiras need for revenge. And if you romance her, it actually carries over to ToB!
Other nice romance in BG2 was Anomen. At first I thought he's a douche and little in the head, but after romancing him I realized I kinda like the fella.
Oh and there are romances between NPCs even without Player interaction! Aerie - Haer'Dalis, and my favorite Edwin - Viconia
I agree! Dragon Age 2 did a great job with the relationships/romances between characters. It wasn't just Hawke either.Princess Rose said:
One of my all-time favorite video game couples is Aveline/Donnic from DA2. They have an entire romance arc and can end up in a really awesome, happy marriage. Through party banter you even get to hear about their relationships with other companions as a married couple. It's part of what made the game rich.
And for the same reason game protagonists are rarely parents, unless the kid has been captured or killed. You don't go out and risk your life when you have a partner and/or kid at home unless you have no other choice. Now sometimes setting up a "no other choice" situation can be interesting, but then you're likely to be apart from your loved ones so it will have little impact on the story.Bostur said:
Co-op games are starting to make a comeback but doubt this will improve the situation - most people don't want to act out a romance with their gaming buddy.
Well Marston was on a quest to save rescue his family; yet there are a few missions of mundance farm/family stuff. Also the fact that he doesn't cheat on his wife with the numerous whores or rich farm owner who so has the hots for him; fits with the whole will shoot anyone and do anything for family thing.KDR_11k said:
So in conlcusion John Marston started with typical trope of a relationship and went on to subvert.
Now onto what you called a Relic example. Now I have to correct you here; killing your familiy because you think they might mabye be heretics happens ALL THE TIME in 40K; if you don't do it then your the heretic and should expect your wife to kill you.
Nintendo Power put out a list of couples:
(in order from 1-12)
Pac-Man & Ms. Pac-Man
Mario & Princess Peach
Solid Snake & Meryl Silverburgh
Crono & Marle
Billy Lee & Marian
Link & Zelda
Neku & Shiki
Sir Arthur & Princess Prin Prin
Viewtiful Joe & Silvia
Fox McCloud & Krystal
Travis Touchdown & Sylvia Christel
Sonic & Amy Rose
(in order from 1-12)
Pac-Man & Ms. Pac-Man
Mario & Princess Peach
Solid Snake & Meryl Silverburgh
Crono & Marle
Billy Lee & Marian
Link & Zelda
Neku & Shiki
Sir Arthur & Princess Prin Prin
Viewtiful Joe & Silvia
Fox McCloud & Krystal
Travis Touchdown & Sylvia Christel
Sonic & Amy Rose
I too enjoyed this on my first play through (Male Paragon got with Liara in ME1 and stayed true to her all the way through ME2) but then when I played as any of my other characters (as in the ones not in love with the blue babe) you just have a chat and talk about your latest flame!Zhukov said:
The problem with videogame relationships is that they are fundamentally different from the way that we form relationships in real life. Game relationships all have to fall within the bounds of specific coding written into the game, from the pre-rendered conversational choices of a BioWare character to the scripted LI's of games like Uncharted.
Human relationships are more spontaneous and variable-filled than games can effectively manage at this time, and I think only true AI's in virtual reality settings, with variables such as eye contact, effective interest understanding, etc. can effectively mimic human relationship interactions. Even the animatronic "girlfriends" that Japanese scientists are turning out these days have coding written into them. It's a step in the right direction, but we've got a long way to go,
I'm sure that style of virtual relationship building will come one day. For now, let Yahtzee ***** and moan about simplistic and unrealistic relationships. He's merely stating the obvious, but that does not mean that you shouldn't enjoy the current relationship style that games have. The fanaticism of Talimancers is an excellent counterpoint to Yahtzee's gripes.
Human relationships are more spontaneous and variable-filled than games can effectively manage at this time, and I think only true AI's in virtual reality settings, with variables such as eye contact, effective interest understanding, etc. can effectively mimic human relationship interactions. Even the animatronic "girlfriends" that Japanese scientists are turning out these days have coding written into them. It's a step in the right direction, but we've got a long way to go,
I'm sure that style of virtual relationship building will come one day. For now, let Yahtzee ***** and moan about simplistic and unrealistic relationships. He's merely stating the obvious, but that does not mean that you shouldn't enjoy the current relationship style that games have. The fanaticism of Talimancers is an excellent counterpoint to Yahtzee's gripes.
Personally I don't think that the white knight situation is necessarily a bad one. It is, however, an overused one and does seriously lack proof of a meaningful relationship, the care and affection the two characters are supposed to feel for one another largely meant to be taken for granted. I think there is romance in the idea that someone's willing to risk their lives for another, it just needs to be better established how much the two characters mean to one another.
Yahtzee is right that all too frequently relationships between a protagonist and a love interest is either shown in its immediate beginning or at a sudden and tragic (though seldom surprising, at least to the player) end. Say what you like about the Mummy series of movies with Brendan Frasier; at least it shows how his relationship with Evillan stays stable, they marry and have a son who's grows up into an intelligent and emotionally stable kid.
It's that sort of relationship I think games could stand to develop. Rather than -end- with the protagonist and their love interest acknowledging their feelings for one another, have the romance develop earlier on. Rather than have a sudden, instant oh-I'm-so-in-love-with-you moment right at the end, have a BUDDING romance at the beginning. The protagonist could be supported by his love interest or could be the one doing the supporting. They could even trade on and off in a genuinely balanced relationship, helping each other fight their battles, in some cases perhaps literally.
As much as some folks may not like the ideas of sequels, it would be a useful plot device for them. If two characters are shown having a long-term relationship, its evolution can become an incentive to play the next game in a series. Perhaps ending with one character contemplating if they should propose marriage in the first game, then partway through game two, they actually pop the question.
Video game character's relationships could definitely stand to gain a bit more maturity and complexity. I don't think the whole white knight situation should be thrown aside entirely...but maybe we could stand to start exploring what happens AFTER they ride off into the sunset.
Yahtzee is right that all too frequently relationships between a protagonist and a love interest is either shown in its immediate beginning or at a sudden and tragic (though seldom surprising, at least to the player) end. Say what you like about the Mummy series of movies with Brendan Frasier; at least it shows how his relationship with Evillan stays stable, they marry and have a son who's grows up into an intelligent and emotionally stable kid.
It's that sort of relationship I think games could stand to develop. Rather than -end- with the protagonist and their love interest acknowledging their feelings for one another, have the romance develop earlier on. Rather than have a sudden, instant oh-I'm-so-in-love-with-you moment right at the end, have a BUDDING romance at the beginning. The protagonist could be supported by his love interest or could be the one doing the supporting. They could even trade on and off in a genuinely balanced relationship, helping each other fight their battles, in some cases perhaps literally.
As much as some folks may not like the ideas of sequels, it would be a useful plot device for them. If two characters are shown having a long-term relationship, its evolution can become an incentive to play the next game in a series. Perhaps ending with one character contemplating if they should propose marriage in the first game, then partway through game two, they actually pop the question.
Video game character's relationships could definitely stand to gain a bit more maturity and complexity. I don't think the whole white knight situation should be thrown aside entirely...but maybe we could stand to start exploring what happens AFTER they ride off into the sunset.
The only games that come to mind that included decent romances are the Final Fantasy games. 7 through 10. Granted theres not much in the way of existing relationships but at least I actually gave a shit about the developing love plots.
I think there are a bunch of heterosexual relationships in gaming among NPCs. We just don't care about them because there isn't a quest associated with them most of the time.
In pokemon HG/SS there are the family that run the Miltank Milk farm. They're a couple with 2 kids. they all raise Miltank; that is their life, and they seem rather content with that.
but main character love interests? ummm... I'd have to go with Twilight Princess. Link and Ilia seemed like they would be together eventually, only because they are about the same age and were childhood friends. It kinda just makes sense. They've known each other forever. When Ilia scolds Link and her father; the two of them have the same response to her, that was adorable. It was affectionate and endearing.
In pokemon HG/SS there are the family that run the Miltank Milk farm. They're a couple with 2 kids. they all raise Miltank; that is their life, and they seem rather content with that.
but main character love interests? ummm... I'd have to go with Twilight Princess. Link and Ilia seemed like they would be together eventually, only because they are about the same age and were childhood friends. It kinda just makes sense. They've known each other forever. When Ilia scolds Link and her father; the two of them have the same response to her, that was adorable. It was affectionate and endearing.
When the kids were kidnapped Link was upset and set out to save them. When he saved the kids he was happy the kids were safe, but also sad that Ilia wasn't with them. When he finally met up with Ilia she had amnesia and didn't recognize Link; Link was speechless errr... ummm... it bothered him emotionally... Even if she didn't recognize him, he still felt the urge to do whatever he could for her, even if he didn't know what he would have to do, he'd do it.
I know some people like to believe it is supposed to be Midna, but their relationship was less romantic and more close friend from what I could tell.
I know some people like to believe it is supposed to be Midna, but their relationship was less romantic and more close friend from what I could tell.
Locke and Celes from FF VI come to mind. Neither are necessarily the main character but both are characterized.
But Yahtzee, how can the characters start out in a relationship when one or both have them have AmNeSiA!!!!
What's that? Tsubasa Chronicles. Shutup you.
Anywho, yeah i gotta agree there are few times where they're in the middle of the relationship at the start and it stays that way. In anime as well (fancy that). Well Onidere i guess, but enough references few will get. Or maybe more would..../tangent.
The only real permanent "relationships" there tends to be is the "best buddy" character, possibly an animal. A number of times there would be some animal companion that is sentient and either talks or damn close.
But otherwise, I would like to see more relationships with even people that aren't the main character. One of my beefs with Mass Effect is that there's so little interaction because the crew. Hell, with you taken maybe the ladies start to look elseware. Or even just friendships and bickering more than the 2 scenes they threw in.
I guess they tend to like the formula of...random beautiful girl pops out of nowhere since it feeds your own imagination and dreams more.
Hmmm, this discussion reminds me of moviebob's superman discussion.
What's that? Tsubasa Chronicles. Shutup you.
Anywho, yeah i gotta agree there are few times where they're in the middle of the relationship at the start and it stays that way. In anime as well (fancy that). Well Onidere i guess, but enough references few will get. Or maybe more would..../tangent.
The only real permanent "relationships" there tends to be is the "best buddy" character, possibly an animal. A number of times there would be some animal companion that is sentient and either talks or damn close.
But otherwise, I would like to see more relationships with even people that aren't the main character. One of my beefs with Mass Effect is that there's so little interaction because the crew. Hell, with you taken maybe the ladies start to look elseware. Or even just friendships and bickering more than the 2 scenes they threw in.
I guess they tend to like the formula of...random beautiful girl pops out of nowhere since it feeds your own imagination and dreams more.
Hmmm, this discussion reminds me of moviebob's superman discussion.