Extra Punctuation: Why Regenerating Health Sucks
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
I don't see how the "Luck" bar is different from any current health system. All you're doing is taking out the blood and anguished grunts, and putting a new name on your health bar.
Most of the games that go for the regenerating health route are going for the competitive multiplayer scene as well, which regenerating health is vastly superior for. Otherwise, strategy revolves around farming easy kills at health-pack spawns, or dying simply because you'd already fought like nine people, so your health was simply too low to fight off the guy who spawned on top of you. PvP in MMORPGs are a great example of this. Unless there is a significant level difference or massive balance issues, you'll almost never see one guy fight off two players who are at least marginally competent, no matter how skilled the outnumbered guy is.
Most of the games that go for the regenerating health route are going for the competitive multiplayer scene as well, which regenerating health is vastly superior for. Otherwise, strategy revolves around farming easy kills at health-pack spawns, or dying simply because you'd already fought like nine people, so your health was simply too low to fight off the guy who spawned on top of you. PvP in MMORPGs are a great example of this. Unless there is a significant level difference or massive balance issues, you'll almost never see one guy fight off two players who are at least marginally competent, no matter how skilled the outnumbered guy is.
Maybe you don't know, Yahtzee, but Brothers In Arms: Hell's Highway has luck system.
EDIT: Oh, i see some people already pointed it out.
EDIT: Oh, i see some people already pointed it out.
I am a big hater of any game which turns my screen red when I am getting low on health and forcing me to hide behind whatever I can find. As Yahtzee mentioned, there are alternatives and they should be used more and more please. I stopped playing several games due to the annoying blur of my screen. Realistic games are fine, but what is realistic about bleeding for five seconds and recovering because you hide behind a box. Personally, I say fuck realism and give me something fun.
Halo Combat Evolved (pc) had a great life system. Halflife was another great example of a well-done health system.
Halo Combat Evolved (pc) had a great life system. Halflife was another great example of a well-done health system.
I couldn't agree more. It's a nonsensical system of survival. I don't care if it's unrealistic, but what fun is it to actually not have to worry about your health.
This element combined with a ridiculously easy penalty for death has ruined modern FPS'. The main thing that adds to the excitement of the newest Painkiller game is when I have 6 points of health and I see a wave of guys coming at me. Then each one of those kills will only net you one point of health, it's rather glorious.
This element combined with a ridiculously easy penalty for death has ruined modern FPS'. The main thing that adds to the excitement of the newest Painkiller game is when I have 6 points of health and I see a wave of guys coming at me. Then each one of those kills will only net you one point of health, it's rather glorious.
My problem with regenerating health is when it regenerates mid-fight.
I like the idea of regenerating health, but think it's just overused.
Imagine in ME2 if you had a longer health bar, but it only recovered when all enemies were dead (like when team mates revived), you'd have the tense moments where you have low health, but they'd also know how much health you have at each section.
I like the idea of regenerating health, but think it's just overused.
Imagine in ME2 if you had a longer health bar, but it only recovered when all enemies were dead (like when team mates revived), you'd have the tense moments where you have low health, but they'd also know how much health you have at each section.
I liked the mixed health system in Mass Effect 1, and I was really dissapointed when it wasn't carried over to the sequel. Your first 'health' bar was your shields, which were pretty weak, but could regenerate. If you lost that, you started taking health damage, which could only me fixed by med-pack (well, medi-gel).
I completely disagree. For one thing, backtracking for 15 minutes only to find that health-pack you thought you is gone is an absolutely soul-crushing experience. Health Packs also seem to be an arbitrary "fun limit", where when I ran out of them, I might as well give the fuck up. With regen, you'll be fighting until your last breath, because it'll never be completely impossible.
Regeneration also allows for more complex level design, because developers no exactly how much health you have before each encounter.
Regeneration also allows for more complex level design, because developers no exactly how much health you have before each encounter.
We're mainly dealing with multiplayer shooters here, amirite?
A buncha people mentioned Far Cry 2(and Riddick, which I haven't played), wherein your health will regenerate up to a certain notch, but you gotta stop and use a healy if you want the whole thing back. That seems like a pretty good standard, but why have a standard?
Thing is, couldn't the devs just put multiple systems in the game, and whoever sets up the match chooses one?
"We're playing TDM on Charnel House with random-spawning Medkits-only, no regen."
"We're playing Infected Flaming Zombie Bubble Bath on Shitler's Sanctum with no life regen whatsoever, and no shotguns except the shitty one."
"We're playing Capture The Junk on Hooptie Palace with Farcry-2-Style-Regen, and up to 3 medikits per team in play at once (they respawn 10 seconds after use on a table in your team's base, but nowhere else.)"
..it wouldn't take that much extra effort, would it? Just configure each map to work with a variety of options/settings, like they already do. I haven't played Modern Warfare or any of the "big boys" of modern shootin', but Smash Brothers on Gamecube had a bajillion options you could configure before the match, and I know I've played shooters that did similar things (I think it mighta been Timesplitters or Metal Gear Online?)
A buncha people mentioned Far Cry 2(and Riddick, which I haven't played), wherein your health will regenerate up to a certain notch, but you gotta stop and use a healy if you want the whole thing back. That seems like a pretty good standard, but why have a standard?
Thing is, couldn't the devs just put multiple systems in the game, and whoever sets up the match chooses one?
"We're playing TDM on Charnel House with random-spawning Medkits-only, no regen."
"We're playing Infected Flaming Zombie Bubble Bath on Shitler's Sanctum with no life regen whatsoever, and no shotguns except the shitty one."
"We're playing Capture The Junk on Hooptie Palace with Farcry-2-Style-Regen, and up to 3 medikits per team in play at once (they respawn 10 seconds after use on a table in your team's base, but nowhere else.)"
..it wouldn't take that much extra effort, would it? Just configure each map to work with a variety of options/settings, like they already do. I haven't played Modern Warfare or any of the "big boys" of modern shootin', but Smash Brothers on Gamecube had a bajillion options you could configure before the match, and I know I've played shooters that did similar things (I think it mighta been Timesplitters or Metal Gear Online?)
Half Life changed my view on regenerating health. I now think it's a good thing.
The problem with HL is that it has 90s health mechanics and 00s damage. It's not like Doom, where you can reasonably expect to take a fair number of hits before you go down. Most of the enemies in HL can chop of half your health bar in a second or two, and that just forces you into trial and error gameplay and quicksaving after every fight. I find the gunfights in STALKER: SoC less frustrating than those in HL.
Trying to get to the next health station on low health is fun, occassionally. Struggling through the entire bloody game on half health because ridiculous damage can (and will) be done by a single burst of enemy gunfire - not fun.
The problem with HL is that it has 90s health mechanics and 00s damage. It's not like Doom, where you can reasonably expect to take a fair number of hits before you go down. Most of the enemies in HL can chop of half your health bar in a second or two, and that just forces you into trial and error gameplay and quicksaving after every fight. I find the gunfights in STALKER: SoC less frustrating than those in HL.
Trying to get to the next health station on low health is fun, occassionally. Struggling through the entire bloody game on half health because ridiculous damage can (and will) be done by a single burst of enemy gunfire - not fun.
The first time I played Fallout 3, I felt like it did a really good job of making health matter, at least in the early hours of the game. I found myself relying heavily on irradiated water to heal myself, knowing that there would be hell to pay down the line from the radiation sickness, but needing to stay alive in the interim.
Unfortunately, once you get some money and enough stimpacks (and access to a bed), it ceases to be an issue. I keep meaning to play through New Vegas on hardcore mode to see if it can manage to sustain the same feel.
Unfortunately, once you get some money and enough stimpacks (and access to a bed), it ceases to be an issue. I keep meaning to play through New Vegas on hardcore mode to see if it can manage to sustain the same feel.
I thought of another system, though it could really only work for a ninja-ish game. When mr. Ninja gets hit, he has to make a button command to see if he lands on his feet. It's sort of like the sonic system because the amount of health you lose is based on your environment (ex. weather you have to land on astroturf, or the ends of chopsticks) and how good you are at the game.
While you would also have to implement some other system to decide how you actually gain health, It does allow the charecter to take a realistic amount of health when he lands incorrectly. Also, when mr. ninja gets hit in a vital area, that body part (ex. skull and brain) would fly in chunks and you would have to actually reassemble it using ninja magic or something, making it very hard, but possible to avoid death if you say, get sniped in the head.
While you would also have to implement some other system to decide how you actually gain health, It does allow the charecter to take a realistic amount of health when he lands incorrectly. Also, when mr. ninja gets hit in a vital area, that body part (ex. skull and brain) would fly in chunks and you would have to actually reassemble it using ninja magic or something, making it very hard, but possible to avoid death if you say, get sniped in the head.
I know I'll be a little late to the party, and the informed brigade will have been and gone, but to anyone who is ragging on Halo for having introduced the health regeneration mechanic.
This is not true. Firstly, Halo 1 didn't feature it, but had a quite interesting dual system with a regenerating shield and health bar. It's probably my favourite system I've found, because it provides a gameplay justification for why you have regenerating health, and you still have to scout for med packs in the hairier sections. Although I think it could have been improved by some sort of counting method that if your shields get knocked to zero too often then the generator overcharges or something and you don't get any more shields until you finish. (or something)
I liked health meters in games, and I wish they could come back. Not quite as 'run over a med kit and boom you're all healed' as they used to be, but maybe something like the Left 4 Dead system, where you had to actually take a minute to heal.
This is not true. Firstly, Halo 1 didn't feature it, but had a quite interesting dual system with a regenerating shield and health bar. It's probably my favourite system I've found, because it provides a gameplay justification for why you have regenerating health, and you still have to scout for med packs in the hairier sections. Although I think it could have been improved by some sort of counting method that if your shields get knocked to zero too often then the generator overcharges or something and you don't get any more shields until you finish. (or something)
I liked health meters in games, and I wish they could come back. Not quite as 'run over a med kit and boom you're all healed' as they used to be, but maybe something like the Left 4 Dead system, where you had to actually take a minute to heal.
I think I like the Luck system. It makes sense. However I don't think all regeneration is bad. I enjoy and evening of NWN2 and have spent a lot of time searching for a Ring of Power which regenerates health. This kind of regen is earned. and I think it enriches the game by making you really want it.