Fable III Dev Lobs a Few Word Bombs at the Haters
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
Oh God, has everyone at Lionhead Studios got the same rose tinted glasses that Molyneux has, the denile here is off the charts. Fable is a decent series but the reason it gets so much hate is because it promises the Earth and never delivers. Lionhead seems to think they have created this deep immersive rpg adeventure. Where in reality Fable is an action game, with very light rpg elements, which is too easy to complete, too short, has loads of pointless/stupid innovations (what was wrong with inventory menus Fable 3) and has all the depth and immersion of a toddler's paddling pool.
captcha: urofour citizen
captcha: urofour citizen
He sure likes to complain a lot. Maybe he should spend all that energy in making better games. But at least we "learned" that Fable =/= LotR!
Heh.
Heh.
Some points:
Vocal talent not appreciated enough:
I'm going to take my experience from these very forums for this one, It was before Fable 3 was released, we were getting snippets of info from our beloved Mr. Molyneux concerning voice talent. He was just done telling us that John Cleese would be our butler...
I'll stop there because that was the moment when everyone collectively decided Fable was worth the money
Your voice talent isn't appreciated enough, Mr. West? Well how about this food for thought. Roughly half the people I see on this web-site wouldn't have considered buying the damn game if it wasn't for the inclusion of John Cleese...
They didn't get the story!:
What story? You mean the typical Fable-grade railroading that makes as little sense as it needs to? There is no story to be had in a series that since it's conception has boasted freedom of choice as it's one major mechanic.
So tell me where was all the choice in Fable 3? Was it when I was being forced to make promises I had no intention of making, let alone keeping? Was it when the black monstrosity from beyond was threatening my lands but for some reason I wasn't allowed to tell my citizens about it?
Or was it there again when you that never-ending 'plot-device' Thereasa showed up, just like I didn't want her to...
'It's an interesting situation of you gather people together and then defeating the main bad guy.
Right, So it's basically every Final Fantasy game ever made, then? Collect team-mates, defeat the amassing evil, world saved, heroes of the land, huzzah!
No, that's not a story.
Gamers thought they were playing a serious LotR-style game when they're really not!:
Well you said it, it's definitely not a Lord of the Rings style game...
Which is why no one has ever considered it to be a Lord of the Rings style game...
It's kind of silly that you'd even assume that of your audience, to be honest. Your audience who by now must be made of mostly the hardcore Lionhead fans, y'know the kind.
The ones that have been around since Fable 1 and I don't mean Lost Chapters Fable 1, I mean REAL Fable 1
Can't say I'm impressed that this guy seems to be taking entirely fair criticism so badly.
You'd think after effectively taking a huge step backwards with their game that they'd be ready for it.
Vocal talent not appreciated enough:
I'm going to take my experience from these very forums for this one, It was before Fable 3 was released, we were getting snippets of info from our beloved Mr. Molyneux concerning voice talent. He was just done telling us that John Cleese would be our butler...
I'll stop there because that was the moment when everyone collectively decided Fable was worth the money
Your voice talent isn't appreciated enough, Mr. West? Well how about this food for thought. Roughly half the people I see on this web-site wouldn't have considered buying the damn game if it wasn't for the inclusion of John Cleese...
They didn't get the story!:
What story? You mean the typical Fable-grade railroading that makes as little sense as it needs to? There is no story to be had in a series that since it's conception has boasted freedom of choice as it's one major mechanic.
So tell me where was all the choice in Fable 3? Was it when I was being forced to make promises I had no intention of making, let alone keeping? Was it when the black monstrosity from beyond was threatening my lands but for some reason I wasn't allowed to tell my citizens about it?
Or was it there again when you that never-ending 'plot-device' Thereasa showed up, just like I didn't want her to...
'It's an interesting situation of you gather people together and then defeating the main bad guy.
Right, So it's basically every Final Fantasy game ever made, then? Collect team-mates, defeat the amassing evil, world saved, heroes of the land, huzzah!
No, that's not a story.
Gamers thought they were playing a serious LotR-style game when they're really not!:
Well you said it, it's definitely not a Lord of the Rings style game...
Which is why no one has ever considered it to be a Lord of the Rings style game...
It's kind of silly that you'd even assume that of your audience, to be honest. Your audience who by now must be made of mostly the hardcore Lionhead fans, y'know the kind.
The ones that have been around since Fable 1 and I don't mean Lost Chapters Fable 1, I mean REAL Fable 1
Can't say I'm impressed that this guy seems to be taking entirely fair criticism so badly.
You'd think after effectively taking a huge step backwards with their game that they'd be ready for it.
Couldn't phrase it better myself. You get the idea that they are people who really want to make a great game, but just can't do it. If other developers put as much passion into their work as Lionhead, we'd see a lot more Saints Rows and Stalkers, rather than Madden remakes and Medal of Honor clones.Mr Companion said:
Maybe if Lionhead ditched the comedy and went for a serious game? Bit of a change of tone, but they might be able to pull it off. Some of the grittier parts of F2+3 were actually quite good, just dragged down by tone.
Well actually, Baz Luhrmann said that critics 'couldn't criticise' Australia because it was: "an epic in league with Gone With The Wind." Maybe he and Peter are buddies or something.The Human Torch said:
Those are two great examples because both were brilliant but for vastly different reasons. Fable 3 failed due to a lack of atmosphere and depth, which your examples succeed at. Bravo to you sir!The Cheezy One said:
I'm in the pal so I haven't played my pre-ordered F3 yet, however I was getting buyers remorse this week
This has sort of made me feel better.
This has sort of made me feel better.
[quote/]"We're making a co-operative role-playing game - there aren't any co-operative role-playing games out there, we're the only one."[/quote]
Wait, what about Secret of Mana? Doesn't that also have a co-operative mode?
Wait, what about Secret of Mana? Doesn't that also have a co-operative mode?
I still stand by my Fable banner, but seriously, Fable 3 was a huge disappointment. Except for perhaps the usual glory that is Reaver, the pack of cards I got with very nice illustrations which I play Clocktower with, and the coin I keep with me wherever I go, it was probably nearly my worst pre-order decision ever, ESPECIALLY since I bought the $80 Collector's Edition.
Also, the co-op is fail. And the story, and just about everything else in the game still pales in comparison to Fable: The Lost Chapters.
BRING BACK JACK...AND REAVER FOR FABLE 4!
That is all...end of story.
Also, the co-op is fail. And the story, and just about everything else in the game still pales in comparison to Fable: The Lost Chapters.
BRING BACK JACK...AND REAVER FOR FABLE 4!
That is all...end of story.
I'm a staunch defender of Fable. I enjoyed Fable 1 despite people falling for the (massive) hype and not getting the devinely created masterpiece they were expecting. I played a game...not hype. And I really enjoyed it, despite the broken promises.
I did the same for Fable 2. Yes, it had a few rough edges. That inventory system was awful, even with an installed game it was glitchy and unmanagable at times. And that story was anticlimactic. However, I still loved it enough to get 100% achievements in it.
Fable 3...once more I didn't listen to hype. Didn't care for previews or interviews or whatever, I just expected a game like Fable 2 but with improvements.
I didn't get it.
The notion of being a good or evil character was almost entirely removed. There was no real feeling of conquest. With a main character that spoke what they liked without control from you, your evilness was blunted by the heroic voice of the main character doing heroic things to save the world. And the main plot didn't even amount to anything. It felt like Lionhead had realised they'd given away pretty much the entirety of the storyline in previews (evil brother, rise to power, overthrow him and become king/queen) and thought "Ah crap, we need a twist" and through in the melevolent darkness at the last minute. That aspect by itself was good, that evil voice and the feeling of cruel, hateful evil creeping towards Albion was truely ominous...so much so that I wish it was introduced a lot earlier. Hinted at slowly and then suddenly you were hit with it. Instead it felt shoe-horned in.
As for the gameplay itself...I couldn't believe how they managed to ruin the gesture system. Gesturing to only one person at a time? Making friends by completing utterly redundant fetch quests over and over and over? In the end I simply stopped caring about befriending people. The map screen was okay, but it didn't tell me where I was, nor in the open areas like the woods or the lake did it accurately depict the paths. If the paths weren't so linear it would be incredibly easy to get completely lost.
The idea of weapons changing depending on how you used them was a good one. It's a shame that this basically meant all the weapons looked exactly the same with just hilts, blades, barrels etc swappng between a handful of possibilities with none of them really standing out as unique.
Fable 3 did something rare for me. It disappointed. Generally I buy a game and play it for what it is, not caring about what people tell me it should be. I enjoyed Assassins Creed for this reason also. But Fable 3 failed to improve upon Fable 2 and in many ways made things worse. What they tried to improve ultimately didn't add anything except needless fiddliness (changing weapons is a massive chore, and who thought degrading houses was a good idea? Just makes me not bother buying houses so I don't have to deal with it.)
Sorry guys, I've stuck with you for a long time but I think it's time you stopped trying to be so damn innovating and ambitious and tried to be a little more realistic. PM seems to be writing cheques the devs can't cash. I applaud the man's vision, we need visionaries in the games industry, but he needs to learn when to keep his dreams as dreams and when the technology is available to make them into a reality.
That said, please make Black & White 3 for Kinect.
I did the same for Fable 2. Yes, it had a few rough edges. That inventory system was awful, even with an installed game it was glitchy and unmanagable at times. And that story was anticlimactic. However, I still loved it enough to get 100% achievements in it.
Fable 3...once more I didn't listen to hype. Didn't care for previews or interviews or whatever, I just expected a game like Fable 2 but with improvements.
I didn't get it.
The notion of being a good or evil character was almost entirely removed. There was no real feeling of conquest. With a main character that spoke what they liked without control from you, your evilness was blunted by the heroic voice of the main character doing heroic things to save the world. And the main plot didn't even amount to anything. It felt like Lionhead had realised they'd given away pretty much the entirety of the storyline in previews (evil brother, rise to power, overthrow him and become king/queen) and thought "Ah crap, we need a twist" and through in the melevolent darkness at the last minute. That aspect by itself was good, that evil voice and the feeling of cruel, hateful evil creeping towards Albion was truely ominous...so much so that I wish it was introduced a lot earlier. Hinted at slowly and then suddenly you were hit with it. Instead it felt shoe-horned in.
As for the gameplay itself...I couldn't believe how they managed to ruin the gesture system. Gesturing to only one person at a time? Making friends by completing utterly redundant fetch quests over and over and over? In the end I simply stopped caring about befriending people. The map screen was okay, but it didn't tell me where I was, nor in the open areas like the woods or the lake did it accurately depict the paths. If the paths weren't so linear it would be incredibly easy to get completely lost.
The idea of weapons changing depending on how you used them was a good one. It's a shame that this basically meant all the weapons looked exactly the same with just hilts, blades, barrels etc swappng between a handful of possibilities with none of them really standing out as unique.
Fable 3 did something rare for me. It disappointed. Generally I buy a game and play it for what it is, not caring about what people tell me it should be. I enjoyed Assassins Creed for this reason also. But Fable 3 failed to improve upon Fable 2 and in many ways made things worse. What they tried to improve ultimately didn't add anything except needless fiddliness (changing weapons is a massive chore, and who thought degrading houses was a good idea? Just makes me not bother buying houses so I don't have to deal with it.)
Sorry guys, I've stuck with you for a long time but I think it's time you stopped trying to be so damn innovating and ambitious and tried to be a little more realistic. PM seems to be writing cheques the devs can't cash. I applaud the man's vision, we need visionaries in the games industry, but he needs to learn when to keep his dreams as dreams and when the technology is available to make them into a reality.
That said, please make Black & White 3 for Kinect.
I'll agree with that.Nicolaus99 said:
At no point did it feel like I was leading a revolution because I thought it was the right thing to do.
I was simply dragged along with the story, doing what Walter and the various other characters wanted me to do.
Hell, after the revolution you can agree to what your brother was doing in the first place if you so choose.
So the lead combat designer's defense of the game he worked on can pretty much be summed up as "Some people say this isn't a very good game. Nuh-uh, it's a pretty good game"?
I really hope he said more that didn't make it into the printed interview, because that's just... Wow. Words fail me. And more to the point, him.
I really hope he said more that didn't make it into the printed interview, because that's just... Wow. Words fail me. And more to the point, him.