Fate/Stay Night and Typemoon in General

[Nihilm]

I haven't watched carnival phantasm yet, is it actually good? I have not watched it with the fear that parody is not always easy to pull off.

It's not a parody in the sense that it's mocking the series but more about throwing the characters into bizzare and silly situations while keeping their characters in tact. While the humor is absurd how the characters react to these perdiciments is played wonderfully straight.

One of the stand out segements from the series
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHtlRlFRU30

Hmm, that is pretty decent actually .

I'll give it a watch after i finish of all the far side routes for tsukihime

 

[Quicksilver_Phoenix]

I know I might be in the minority here, but I don't think shirou was THAT bad.

Not at all!

I actually quite like him. Nice to see a character with strong ideals amongst a see of "anything goes" anti heroes.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

To all the Shirou haters: [color= white]he becomes Archer, the most swoon worthy badass ************ I've seen in a VN.[/color] No matter what he does, I forgive him for that alone.
Also: Type-Moon wooooo!!
Tsukihime made my life better. And my Type-Moon waifu is Hisui. Best meido of all time.

 

[jhoroz]

*snip*

I know I might be in the minority here, but I don't think shirou was THAT bad. Now don't get me wrong when i first played through the fate route, i hated, hated shirou, I really did. He had some moments, but mostly he was just so dumb, so idealistic, so so Shirou. "People die when they are killed" - Shirou, no fucking shit.

BUT, then i played unlimited bladeworks, and my god did I enjoy that a lot more than the fate route and I think Shirou's character got a lot more deep there as well.

Spoiler

The entire part about how archer is Shirou and at the same time one of the most badass characters ever(in my opinion) and the backstory behind archer, really gave Shirou depth

and I had a lot of respect for him in the HF route

Spoiler

For giving up on his ideals

Now, while he is in no way a "good" character, maybe not even a decent one, he is definately not the worst in creation and I just love the world and the entire concept behind the holy grail war too much to rate fate/stay night the VN badly just because the main character is a bit meh.

*EDIT* Keep in mind that this is only my opinion and I am not interested getting in an argument over it, I just think the guy gets a rough deal even among fans.

I think it was the F/SN anime that skewed people's perception of what Shirou was meant to be, which was a deconstruction of you standard, idealistic wannabe hero. Fate presents us with a typical portrayal of the trope and it ends how most of these types of stories usually end. UBW than challenges these beliefs by showing just how unrealistic they are and how much they can destroy you inside, but he chooses to march on despite the fact that they are superficially burrowed, because of the beauty he experiences whenever he imagines them, even if they are unattainable. HF, which is of course the darkest and most mature of the three, presents him with such an unprecedented and harrowing situation, that he's forced to give up what he's so desperately latched onto from Kiritsugu, and thus mature the most out of all his other iterations in the game. He's a wonderfully crafted character study, that reflects within the way the VN is structured, who just happened to have a bit of a mediocre, naive personality (which was intentional; the traumas he endured as a child were what shaped him like this)

 

[Evilsanta]

I like Type-Moon in general and Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night are ranked quite high on my top VN list.

As for Shirou... While I did not outright hate him, I did find most of his actions and some dialouge in the Fate route to be stupid as fuck.

Also waiting for the Tsukihime remake. Sacchin will finally have her own route!

She won't be sad anymore!

 

[jhoroz]

I liked them well enough for Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime. Then came fucking Kara no Kyoukai. Visuals from UFOTABLE? Music from Kalafina, created by my all-time favorite composer? God damn it. Now, I'm basically in love.

Also, I believe this is mandatory for this thread:


God, I love Carnival Phantasm so much.

SEASON 4! SEASON 4!

Or we could just watch this instead:

 

[jhoroz]

Honestly up until the Fate/Stay Night adaptation I pretty much thought this was a hentai series. It was okay even if they adapted the most boring route (Unlimited Blade Works is my favourite) though the mythology has potential for something far bigger than the novel would instill...

Then the Fate/Zero manga came out. Hoooly crap that thing is AMAZING. All the teen drama nonsense is cut out and replaced by further expanding on the lore, introduce very flawed three-dimensional characters and philosophies on what is right and wrong as well as making ALL of the Servants awesome, except Assassin. Nobody likes Assassin. This was doubly kickass when they decided to adapt it into anime.

That, and Rider.

Then I think Gen Urobuchi's writing style would appeal more to you than Nasu's, because he was the one who penned Fate/Zero. Also, watch the anime/read the LN. Much better than the manga (it was first a light novel series, then anime, then manga)

 

[Nihilm]

*snip*

I have to say that I for the most part agree with everything you just said.Though that doesn't explain the lapses of idiocy from time to time. He definately had what I like to call "naruto" syndrome where it felt like everybody who would ever play F/SN was smarter than him or could atleast follow the stuff happening better than him.

Though I am having the same experience to a lesser extent with shiki from tsukihime. I am guessing it is intentional to give the excuse to keep explaining the same things over and over again, but it gets annoying.

I think the biggest problem i had with Shirou in the fate route was how he treated saber for the most part. He just felt like a really sexist person even though he was thinking he was doing the right thing. Further annoyed that everybody told him to stop with it and argh.. I really did not like fate route Shirou.

Edit: Not to mention he was so much more reasonable from the start in UBW and HF.

Spoiler

I guess it was because saber got hurt in the fight with berserker in the fate route, but still

 

[jhoroz]

So, how about dem waifus, guise?

Shiki.

Why yes, I did love Kara No Kyoukai.

I'm actually really looking forward to seeing another adaptation of F/S N. As someone who's played all of the VN, the anime was a massive disappointment. Still, the Unlimited Blade Works movie was fairly decent.

....Not sure if I want Heaven's Feel to ever get an adaptation though.

They already did Fate and UBW, so it would feel pedantic if they didn't adapt HF. And HF is the one that fits the most with Fate/Zero in terms of tone, so I don't see any other option if they are trying to make this into a continuation of Fate/Zero. My personal opinion, they should get Nasu to come in as a writer and give his own definitive vision of what Fate/Stay Night should be as an anime and as a continuation of Zero.

 

[jhoroz]

*snip*

I have to say that I for the most part agree with everything you just said.Though that doesn't explain the lapses of idiocy from time to time. He definately had what I like to call "naruto" syndrome where it felt like everybody who would ever play F/SN was smarter than him or could atleast follow the stuff happening better than him.

Though I am having the same experience to a lesser extent with shiki from tsukihime. I am guessing it is intentional to give the excuse to keep explaining the same things over and over again, but it gets annoying.

I think the biggest problem i had with Shirou in the fate route was how he treated saber for the most part. He just felt like a really sexist person even though he was thinking he was doing the right thing. Further annoyed that everybody told him to stop with it and argh.. I really did not like fate route Shirou.

Yeah Fate Shirou is the most unbearable. He's sexist and has an extremely old fashioned view of what women should be like, but I think he feels that way towards everyone really because of his pathological sense of martyrdom.

 

[Nihilm]

*snip*

Well... I would never call F/SN or Tsukihime window dressing for hentai, mainly because the hentai is just flat out bad(haven't seen all of tsukihime) and there is a lot of easier way to get a lot better hentai without clicking for 20 hours. It feels like the scenes were thrown in there just to tick the boxes of eventual H-scenes since like you said they are fairly popular in VN's.

Now that that is out of the way. You don't need to legitimize fap material, it is legitimate already. I don't really get the dislike of pornography, but that is another story. Also as far as i know most of the type-moon memes like the Jam it in! and cat one come from doujinshi related to the works by other authors.

 

[jhoroz]

Ea GG

EDIT: Also the story and characters never felt like window dressing for hentai in either Tsukihime or F/SN, and if anything the H-Scenes stood out like a sore thumb because of how badly written their sea food analogies were for sex positions and how unneeded they were because the story was good enough to stand on its own two feet. The last thing that people read Typemoon VNs is for the H-scenes (ok, that's an exaggeration, but they're still inappropriately timed within the story and badly written, which is the genuine consensus among your average reader-hence the non-H versions)

 

[Nihilm]

Now just to drive the topic away from whether or not something was good

What can you guys tell me about the tsukihime remake I heard about yesterday, just wondering about anything known about it right now.(any changes to the story/characters, will it be voiced like F/SN)

I just realised that if they make a remake of tsukihime, there is always a chance for a tsukihime anime by ufotable Tsukihime could finally have an anime

 

[Nihilm]

*snip*

Well the way i understood it was, that it was not him using something common differently. In fact he was special because he posessed the reality marble and he had a very unique affinity towards that one specific type of magic. You could say to a savant level of affinity. It was because other mages were not capable of using projection like he could why everyone in F/SN says that it is weird and that projection in of it self is a useless ability almost.

 

[jhoroz]

Not much news on it because Nasu is too busy playing Dark Souls since news is rarely updated and I don't speak Japanese. The most I have going at the moment is the new character art that was released and that's it. And I'd rather much see a sequel for Tsukihime with Satsujinki Shiki and Arc travelling around the world and fucking shit up one Dead Apostle Ancestor at a time. I mean, just look at this:

 

[NerfedFalcon]

So, what's the deal? You're all ashamed of it? You're still willing to admit that the F/sn anime exists, even if it sucked.

 

[jhoroz]

*snip*

Well the way i understood it was, that it was not him using something common differently. In fact he was special because he posessed the reality marble and he had a very unique affinity towards that one specific type of magic. You could say to a savant level of affinity. It was because other mages were not capable of using projection like he could why everyone in F/SN says that it is weird and that projection in of it self is a useless ability almost.

Spoiler

and he also had his future self to observe from, which is a luxury many magi don't get

But yeah, UBW Shirou is a little too OP for my tastes. HF, not so much, due to the little "surgery" that was performed on him.

 

[Nihilm]

So, what's the deal? You're all ashamed of it? You're still willing to admit that the F/sn anime exists, even if it sucked.

I am not sure what your trying to even say here? Why would I ever be ashamed of liking anything? Especially something that isn't even close to be universally hated?

I am not sure if I should be insulted or what?

Edit: Oh sorry, for some reason i completely misread what you said and brain-derped in to think you meant were all ashamed for liking type-moon for some reason, sorry for any confusion my confusion created.

 

[jhoroz]

So, what's the deal? You're all ashamed of it? You're still willing to admit that the F/sn anime exists, even if it sucked.

Are you referring to the myth known as the Tsukihime anime? F/SN was mediocre, but nowhere near as bad as the blasphemies that were described when people speak of this "Tsukihime animu"

 

[Nihilm]

*snip*

Well the way i understood it was, that it was not him using something common differently. In fact he was special because he posessed the reality marble and he had a very unique affinity towards that one specific type of magic. You could say to a savant level of affinity. It was because other mages were not capable of using projection like he could why everyone in F/SN says that it is weird and that projection in of it self is a useless ability almost.

Spoiler

and he also had his future self to observe from, which is a luxury many magi don't get

But yeah, UBW Shirou is a little too OP for my tastes. HF, not so much, due to the little "surgery" that was performed on him.

UBW was my favourite of the 3 routes, HF being a really close second.

Spoiler

but yeah Shirou beating Gilgamesh or even Archer in a fair fight makes no real sense, I mean I think it was implied archer let him beat him and I bought that, but I think they should have thought up a more clever plan vs gilgamesh instead of Shirou is just going to go heads up against a servant, one of the strongest I might add and kick ass.