Female Game Characters Photoshopped to Average American Proportions

[Redryhno]

Question: what exactly is this trying to prove? That video games have unrealistic portrayals of the average woman? Well, guess what, these people aren't average in terms of physicality by any stretch of the definition (except the GTAV girl who isn't even a character in the game, and thus we have no insight in her lifestyle, and Cortana, who is a hologram). All of these are fighters who perform practically superhuman feats and applying realistic body standards to these characters makes no sense. This may have worked better if you were to apply what the average American is to, you know, average people.

I think the purpose is to tell people vulnerable to eating disorders that they should stop regarding idealized versions of women as a plausible standard of beauty that is worth starving yourself towards. Video games almost always show women as sexy and implausibly thin, and that might not be helpful in a society that invariably judges people (and particularly women) on appearance. By showing heavier versions of videogame characters, it kind of acts as a reality check that asserts a) it is unusual to look that thin and b) there isn't any harm in not looking that thin.

Every other argument people are making about fighting girls is kind of mute in regards to the above problem. It is insincere to claim that a fighter wouldn't be fat, seeing as how they probably wouldn't be stick thin with double Ds either (as games portray them). You don't ever see average proportioned people in games, whatever the context, and that is the bigger problem when trying to combat a negative self image; these people with eating disorders have little else to compare themselves to except for idealized fantasy women. That issue exists in most mediums beyond gaming, however within gaming it does feel exaggerated by the fact that games are often first and foremost to appeal to guys.

If that's the case, then again, I've yet to get an answer to this in the ten pages I've been asking the question(like, not even an acknowledgement), why not use real models instead of game characters? Heck, even cosplayers would work.

Why characters where nothing but the vaguely humanoid shape and language that pops up on-screen parallel the real world? Why these characters where they already have similar bodies to the real world as it is with what they do? Why not add muscle instead of fat? Why not reduce their busts(something I honestly would have no problem with because I'm not a big fan of huge boobs or butts and would like something else). Why not people from the real world with healthy bodies that also have extra weight to them? Why not one of a thousand different variations other than this?

I'm going to keep asking this question until I actually get a damn answer.

And I'm going to keep saying this, all this is is trading one extreme for another without any thought to having something in the middle.

The answer to the question is probably that a bunch of producers don't trust their core demographics to be able to play a game that doesn't have Barbie Doll proportioned, super sexy women. They think that the best way to make the game appeal (and thus sell more), is to shamelessly pander towards a stereotypical gamer who must have big tits and thigh gaps to appreciate a female form. It is an attitude that is demeaning to both women and men, but still alive and well (and apparently still quite effective a marketing technique, if the consumer response to Kate Upton's Game of War ads are any indicator of success).

That is not the question I asked. And that is not what the article claims was the intent. Is it about bulimia, or is it about game shapes?

 

[maninahat]

Every other argument people are making about fighting girls is kind of mute in regards to the above problem.

Is that really a problem the US is going through? Because last time I checked what the real problem the US was going through was an obesity epidemic where a majority of the American people where seriously overweight or obese. For every one woman who has an eating disorder which is self imposed to try to try and look good, there's an easy hundred who are seriously overweight and need to cut back on their daily caloric intake. If anything these images are doing more damage then the thing they are claiming to be solving, since the number of people getting the very, very wrong image of what a healthy human being looks like are an easy order of magnitude greater, and is an issue which is just as serious on a per-person basis in terms of personal health as well as cost to the health care system (in fact obesity probably costs the system more per-person).

That's before we even get into the issue of both men and women preferring good looking women instead of bad looking ones, and despite claims to the contrary the women portrayed in the original images are, in fact, 'realistic' (outside of anime eyes for some of them) as I can very much attest to knowing quite a few women who have a body whose figure is more in line with the originals then the intentionally obese ones.

I also have to wonder why media created in other countries where this is not a major issue (namely any that isn't the US or UK) should care for this mostly American problem when making media. Here in Montreal the issue is very much a smaller one on both ends of the scale, especially in the people within the age range of those portrayed in these images.

Yes, it is still a problem the US is going through. America hasn't exactly been fond of showing fat women in any medium, and yet despite exiling all fat people from the screens, there are more over-weight Americans than ever. I find it galling to suggest that a few anti-anorexia images that show fat women are going to result in more obesity, where decades of showing exclusively sexy skinny women has done little to curb the obesity epidemic. I don't think having fat protagonists is going to result in there being more fat people, but I think it certainly would help to make weight conscious people feel less of the destructive, needless anxiety attached to their weight and appearance. Efforts to be more healthy shouldn't be driven by a fear of looking ugly, or of being socially unacceptable.

Also, there is a marked difference about the way people are depicted on UK and US TV. If you watch UK TV, you tend to see far more "ordinary" people; that is to say, fatter, less conventionally attractive, less glamorous people. This is the case in adverts, and comedies and tv shows. There is little concern that UK television is encouraging fatness by showing fat people on the screen. For the record, the UK has the highest rates of obesity in Europe...but still way lower rates than America.

 

[maninahat]

[snip]

That is not the question I asked. And that is not what the article claims was the intent. Is it about bulimia, or is it about game shapes?

You asked why they don't just use realistic models. I told you it is because sexy, skinny women are generally seen as more marketable.

Bulimia and game shapes go hand in hand. Bulimia is a consequence of a person's anxiety about what is the "proper way to look". This proper look is dictated by the world around you, in that we are bombarded with endless depictions of idealized, sexy women in advertising, entertainment and human interaction. We are trained from childhood to measure a person's value or worth on their appearance. It's why Susan Boyle got famous; she shocked people who believed the patently absurd (yet widely accepted) idea that only good looking people are capable of singing.

To combat bulimia, you have to let these anxious people know that - actually - not being skinny isn't a bad thing. You can help that by not making fat people invisible in entertainment.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

[snip]

That is not the question I asked. And that is not what the article claims was the intent. Is it about bulimia, or is it about game shapes?

You asked why they don't just use realistic models. I told you it is because sexy, skinny women are generally seen as more marketable.

Bulimia and game shapes go hand in hand. Bulimia is a consequence of a person's anxiety about what is the "proper way to look". This proper look is dictated by the world around you, in that we are bombarded with endless depictions of idealized, sexy women in advertising, entertainment and human interaction. We are trained from childhood to measure a person's value or worth on their appearance. It's why Susan Boyle got famous; she shocked people who believed the patently absurd (yet widely accepted) idea that only good looking people are capable of singing.

To combat bulimia, you have to let these anxious people know that - actually - not being skinny isn't a bad thing. You can help that by not making fat people invisible in entertainment.

Or how about they take some personal responsibility for their own health, and stop blaming everyone else like some kinda petulant child?

this whole thing reeks of entitled bullshit "cater your entertainment towars ME!"
MEEEEEEE!
MEEEEEEEEEEE!

If your existence needs to be fucking validated by what you see on tv, or in video games, or whatever other asinine shit, maybe you have a larger problem then how skinny and endowed tifa is.

I apologize if i sound overly hostile, but i have absolutely no patience for people who need to be babied, and even less for people who are speaking for someone else they believe needs to be babied.

 

[Redryhno]

[snip]

That is not the question I asked. And that is not what the article claims was the intent. Is it about bulimia, or is it about game shapes?

You asked why they don't just use realistic models. I told you it is because sexy, skinny women are generally seen as more marketable.

Bulimia and game shapes go hand in hand. Bulimia is a consequence of a person's anxiety about what is the "proper way to look". This proper look is dictated by the world around you, in that we are bombarded with endless depictions of idealized, sexy women in advertising, entertainment and human interaction. We are trained from childhood to measure a person's value or worth on their appearance. It's why Susan Boyle got famous; she shocked people who believed the patently absurd (yet widely accepted) idea that only good looking people are capable of singing.

To combat bulimia, you have to let these anxious people know that - actually - not being skinny isn't a bad thing. You can help that by not making fat people invisible in entertainment.

So what you're saying is to combat a real world problem, we must use solely fictional examples of fictional characters?

We are bombarded much more by real-world media than we are game media, and yet this article uses SOLELY game characters(heck, most of them aren't even recent or even much more than niche games). It doesn't use celebrity shops, real people in the world that are both healthy and have a variety of body shapes that aren't the "skinny norm" as you put it, they don't even use cosplayers to get the same idea across while also having the geeky edge.

I mean, are you saying that games have a bigger impact on body shapes than...the real world, live-action media, and parts of first-world society combined? And that we need to fight game shapes first?

 

[AgedGrunt]

And here I thought fat-shaming was altogether unacceptable. I can't see the point of this other than to say to America, "Hey American girls, you don't look like these characters, if you were vidya game characters you would look more like you ate your party members."

But ok, you want "realistic" bodies that are attainable so people don't develop eating disorders in pursuit of impossible standards. Then why did you take many of those female characters, who did not appear unrealistically thin, and make them overweight?

And what's unrealistic or unattainable about tone in a body? You have to lose the fat to see tone, and you just slapped it onto these characters like they were missing all of this realistic fat not everyone has.

And in case it wasn't already said 100 times, not many people want to look at other people, let alone fiction (which can be made ideal) who have no *realistic* physical conditioning, particularly when they are an adventurer, fighter or powerful being. How could Lara Croft possibly do what she does in the games if she's a bit overweight?

It's not realistic because vidya games, like movies, do not depict pure realism. That's why it's called fiction. Realistic lighting is not the same kind of realism as body type.

 

[Zontar]

I don't think having fat protagonists is going to result in there being more fat people, but I think it certainly would help to make weight conscious people feel less of the destructive, needless anxiety attached to their weight and appearance. Efforts to be more healthy shouldn't be driven by a fear of looking ugly, or of being socially unacceptable.

Have you thought that maybe that's a case of a part of the brain trying to tell the rest of it that the unhealthy lifestyle which is actively harming it is one which should be changed? And I'm sorry to sound harsh in saying this, but being obese, at some point (not sure what the arbitrary cut off point should be) should be socially unacceptable for those who don't have legitimate metabolism problems (which exists in a very, very small number of people who are obese). Smoking is no longer socially acceptable, yet appart from second hand smoke many of the same reasons people rallied against it can be applied to obesity, from the health problems to the cost society has to pay financially as a result of it, made worst by the massively larger prevalence of obesity in places like the US.

I know I'm going to get flak for saying that, but I do think obesity should be socially unacceptable. There's no reason children who are half my age should weight as much as I do, or minors getting diabetes, both of which have and are happening in the states.

Also, there is a marked difference about the way people are depicted on UK and US TV. If you watch UK TV, you tend to see far more "ordinary" people; that is to say, fatter, less conventionally attractive, less glamorous people. This is the case in adverts, and comedies and tv shows. There is little concern that UK television is encouraging fatness by showing fat people on the screen. For the record, the UK has the highest rates of obesity in Europe...but still way lower rates than America.

I don't know what shows you've been watching, but I've seen quite a few American series which have people who are as 'normal' as those in British series in terms of being ugly or in their weight. In fact, as a regular viewer of British entertainment (blame that on my Anglophile and Francophile parents) I hadn't been aware the UK had an obesity problem until I started looking into statistics regarding the rate.

 

[someguy1231]

The answer to the question is probably that a bunch of producers don't trust their core demographics to be able to play a game that doesn't have Barbie Doll proportioned, super sexy women. They think that the best way to make the game appeal (and thus sell more), is to shamelessly pander towards a stereotypical gamer who must have big tits and thigh gaps to appreciate a female form. It is an attitude that is demeaning to both women and men, but still alive and well (and apparently still quite effective a marketing technique, if the consumer response to Kate Upton's Game of War ads are any indicator of success).

Oh please. "Pandering" is just a word people use to whine that a group of gamers they don't like is getting more attention than they think they deserve.

People having their own preferences for beauty and attractiveness in women is not "demeaning". You're just trying to shame people for not being attracted to fat women.

 

[Des-Esseintes]

The answer to the question is probably that a bunch of producers don't trust their core demographics to be able to play a game that doesn't have Barbie Doll proportioned, super sexy women. They think that the best way to make the game appeal (and thus sell more), is to shamelessly pander towards a stereotypical gamer who must have big tits and thigh gaps to appreciate a female form. It is an attitude that is demeaning to both women and men, but still alive and well (and apparently still quite effective a marketing technique, if the consumer response to Kate Upton's Game of War ads are any indicator of success).

Oh please. "Pandering" is just a word people use to whine that a group of gamers they don't like is getting more attention than they think they deserve.

People having their own preferences for beauty and attractiveness in women is not "demeaning". You're just trying to shame people for not being attracted to fat women.

Brah, I don't think you've quite caught the point here.

No one's asking you to be stroking it over BBDubs.

Point is, does every video game lady really need to be someone you want to fuck?

 

[ILikeEggs]

I don't think having fat protagonists is going to result in there being more fat people, but I think it certainly would help to make weight conscious people feel less of the destructive, needless anxiety attached to their weight and appearance. Efforts to be more healthy shouldn't be driven by a fear of looking ugly, or of being socially unacceptable.

The problem with your ideal view of society, much like certain aspects of feminism, is that it would seem to be completely contrary to biology and evolution. Things like fat-shaming, thin-shaming, slut-shaming are remnants from a time when, for example, being unhealthy(too fat or too thin) meant you're a drain on the resources of the tribe, or being promiscuous meant you're willing to engage in risky behaviour for short term benefit. As much as enlightened people would like humans to eradicate these holdovers from millenia past, I've seen plenty of studies that show these behaviours are highly unlikely to ever go away.

 

[Redryhno]

The answer to the question is probably that a bunch of producers don't trust their core demographics to be able to play a game that doesn't have Barbie Doll proportioned, super sexy women. They think that the best way to make the game appeal (and thus sell more), is to shamelessly pander towards a stereotypical gamer who must have big tits and thigh gaps to appreciate a female form. It is an attitude that is demeaning to both women and men, but still alive and well (and apparently still quite effective a marketing technique, if the consumer response to Kate Upton's Game of War ads are any indicator of success).

Oh please. "Pandering" is just a word people use to whine that a group of gamers they don't like is getting more attention than they think they deserve.

People having their own preferences for beauty and attractiveness in women is not "demeaning". You're just trying to shame people for not being attracted to fat women.

Brah, I don't think you've quite caught the point here.

No one's asking you to be stroking it over BBDubs.

Point is, does every video game lady really need to be someone you want to fuck?

Nope, but that's not what the article claimed to be about either. It claimed to be about bulimia. Then it added nothing but fat to very active characters and called it a day because "AMERICAN AVERAGES", despite the fact that only like two of them are American in origin, with one of those barely existing as anything other than boxart.

And that's ignoring the whole fact that all of the characters are extraordinary in more than one fashion, turning them into pure averages from the real world just diminishes that part of them for no other reason than someone wanted it to be like that while hiding under the guise of "bulimia awareness"(which is a serious condition, but as I read more and more comments in favor of it I don't think anyone really cares about that part of it).

And hey, none of those characters are characters I really wanted to bang to begin with, heck I don't think most people would want to bang them because most of them have romantic interests that are already their equals in-universe.

 

[someguy1231]

The answer to the question is probably that a bunch of producers don't trust their core demographics to be able to play a game that doesn't have Barbie Doll proportioned, super sexy women. They think that the best way to make the game appeal (and thus sell more), is to shamelessly pander towards a stereotypical gamer who must have big tits and thigh gaps to appreciate a female form. It is an attitude that is demeaning to both women and men, but still alive and well (and apparently still quite effective a marketing technique, if the consumer response to Kate Upton's Game of War ads are any indicator of success).

Oh please. "Pandering" is just a word people use to whine that a group of gamers they don't like is getting more attention than they think they deserve.

People having their own preferences for beauty and attractiveness in women is not "demeaning". You're just trying to shame people for not being attracted to fat women.

Brah, I don't think you've quite caught the point here.

No one's asking you to be stroking it over BBDubs.

Point is, does every video game lady really need to be someone you want to fuck?

Every video game lady is an object of some gamer's "someone you want to fuck" fantasy. Developers could intentionally design the most hideous and ugly female character they can imagine, and she'd still get such fans.

 

[Des-Esseintes]

I don't think having fat protagonists is going to result in there being more fat people, but I think it certainly would help to make weight conscious people feel less of the destructive, needless anxiety attached to their weight and appearance. Efforts to be more healthy shouldn't be driven by a fear of looking ugly, or of being socially unacceptable.

The problem with your ideal view of society, much like certain aspects of feminism, is that it would seem to be completely contrary to biology and evolution. Things like fat-shaming, thin-shaming, slut-shaming are remnants from a time when, for example, being unhealthy(too fat or too thin) meant you're a drain on the resources of the tribe, or being promiscuous meant you're willing to engage in risky behaviour for short term benefit. As much as enlightened people would like humans to eradicate these holdovers from millenia past, I've seen plenty of studies that show these behaviours are highly unlikely to ever go away.

Much respect for what you're saying, dude, I get it. There's some evidence to show that we tend to prefer certain ratios, certain facial features - all that.

The problem I have with what you're saying, and this conventional wisdom in general, is that you've pretty much just pulled it out of your arse, mate. It sounds sciencey, but nothing you've said is legitimate science. You've just said a rationalisation for behaviour that sounds vaguely believable. Even Christopher Hitchens has done the same with his 'women just have no biological incentive to display humour because they just need big tittahs. Evolution.' So you're not in bad company. What you're saying maaaaaaaayyyy be true, but you've given me no reason to believe you. And, in my experience, the people making the argument tend to not have any reason themselves - other than hastily googling whatever evo-psych articles somewhat fit into their world view after the fact. For instance, a quick google just pulled up a study stating that 'being promiscuous' in women has evolved to better produce healthy children. Whaaaaaa?!?!?!?!

Point being, I doubt either of really knows what the fuck we're saying.

Me personally, it seems more likely that our standard of beauty is heavily social. It's only been like, what? 150 years since tubby-tubsters were considered hot as fuck. You only have to look at how vastly different playboy models over the last 50 decades are to see it. Shit, different cultures today are more appreciative of chunkier birds. Not to generalise too much, but how many black geezers do you see walking around with fat white girls? I don't think black people have the biological differences required to evolve a love of fatties. Nor do I think that Botticelli is an evolutionary anomaly.

 

[Des-Esseintes]

Nope, but that's not what the article claimed to be about either. It claimed to be about bulimia. Then it added nothing but fat to very active characters and called it a day because "AMERICAN AVERAGES", despite the fact that only like two of them are American in origin, with one of those barely existing as anything other than boxart.

And that's ignoring the whole fact that all of the characters are extraordinary in more than one fashion, turning them into pure averages from the real world just diminishes that part of them for no other reason than someone wanted it to be like that while hiding under the guise of "bulimia awareness"(which is a serious condition, but as I read more and more comments in favor of it I don't think anyone really cares about that part of it).

And hey, none of those characters are characters I really wanted to bang to begin with, heck I don't think most people would want to bang them because most of them have romantic interests that are already their equals in-universe.

Not quite getting your point, budddd. What intention exactly do you think the creators of these images had?

The post of mine you quoted from was a direct response to the point dude was making - not the article itself. Dude replied to someone who claimed most women in vidjas were designed to look attractive to basic-***** men. He replied saying that he shouldn't be shamed for not for wanting to bang chunky-chicks. I replied saying: 'Yo, it's real fucking weird to think that wanting a variety of shapes in our characters is a way to shame you for not banging fatties. It is possible that a woman could be designed without having "player wants to fuck her" implicit from the get go.'

 

[RaikuFA]

Am I the only one who thinks those alter images are actually alright?

I like some of them more. Tifa, in particular, seems like less of a doll to me.

I mean when have you seen a over weight archaeologist on tv?

Well, TV doesn't particularly like putting overweight people on the air either (unless it's some kind of weight loss competition, which they LOVE).

Or if the person is supposed to be stupid a la Homer Simpson.

OT: at least they said the new LC is more realistic.

 

[ILikeEggs]

Me personally, it seems more likely that our standard of beauty is heavily social. It's only been like, what? 150 years since tubby-tubsters were considered hot as fuck. You only have to look at how vastly different playboy models over the last 50 decades are to see it. Shit, different cultures today are more appreciative of chunkier birds. Not to generalise too much, but how many black geezers do you see walking around with fat white girls? I don't think black people have the biological differences required to evolve a love of fatties. Nor do I think that Botticelli is an evolutionary anomaly.

I don't disagree that many behaviours and views are cultural, and social. If you notice, I didn't even say attraction is purely influenced by the mammalian hindbrain. What I am saying, is there are certain things, certain very basic human responses to things that are heavily influenced by evolution, and that the limbic response to them will likely never go away. Things like disgust at feces, because feces are associated with disease. Hell, even my dogs will refuse to sleep on their mat after they've thrown up on it. Sure, the forebrain can mitigate and modify limbic responses, but it takes conscious cognitive effort to do, and constantly doing that is certainly not something humans evolved to do.

And as for it not being legitimate science, I don't keep a folder of bookmarks of every scientific study I read, or every book I read, because there's too damn much I read, and too many topics I read. Also, evolutionary psychology is a relatively nascent field of research, so I don't expect the scientific status quo to remain the same, but I do give credence to subjects I feel are well-researched and documented.

 

[someguy1231]

Me personally, it seems more likely that our standard of beauty is heavily social. It's only been like, what? 150 years since tubby-tubsters were considered hot as fuck. You only have to look at how vastly different playboy models over the last 50 decades are to see it. Shit, different cultures today are more appreciative of chunkier birds. Not to generalise too much, but how many black geezers do you see walking around with fat white girls? I don't think black people have the biological differences required to evolve a love of fatties. Nor do I think that Botticelli is an evolutionary anomaly.

The only times "tubby-tubsters" have been considered the beauty ideal was when food was scarce. For example, Mauritania is a country where fat women are considered ideal, so much so that some girls are essentially force-fed in their youth in hopes of landing a good husband. Mauritania is also a country beset by food shortages and concerns of famine. In other words, fat women weren't considered "hot" on their own merits - they were considered hot because they had good access to food and other resources. They were basically the "sugar daddies" of their time.

The differences in Playboy models and the like has been grossly exaggerated. Marilyn Monroe, despite what some fat activists would like you to believe, was not "plus size", either in her day or by modern standards. Going back even further, look up the famous Nefertiti bust. That was made over 3000 years ago, and yet a face like her's wouldn't look out of place among today's supermodels and female celebrities. Look at the Aphrodite of Cnidus statue (2400 years ago) for another example. Her body shape is very similar to Kate Upton's.

Minor details like hair and makeup styles may differ based on history and society, but when it comes to overall body shape and size, human cultures have been remarkably consistent.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

All I got from this was "Wah wah wah I feel bad about myself make these characters fat like me." I don't see why we should be celebrating the decline in the average American's health. It's a damn shame.

 

[Redryhno]

All I got from this was "Wah wah wah I feel bad about myself make these characters fat like me." I don't see why we should be celebrating the decline in the average American's health. It's a damn shame.

To be fair, games could do with more body shapes all around, for a surprise at least, but this is certainly not the way to do it.

 

[Piorn]

Is that really the american average?
Because that's what I'd call well-fed. Not obese I guess, but not the type of body that is used to movement either. Or maybe the artist just misjudged the height and scale of the characters, I don't know.

Always find it interesting how easily these campaigns backfire, though. They aim to expose the ridiculous standards set by artists, but counter them with body imagery that's a bit too far in the other direction, so in comparison it just looks like glorifying obesity.