Female Game Characters Photoshopped to Average American Proportions

[Redryhno]

I just wanted to add an image of a classically beautiful woman.

Spoiler: Not A Classically Beautiful Woman

Spoiler: Anyone A Fan of Archer?

Spoiler: How About Byron?

For me, it's the poetry that does it.

Um...isn't the running joke that Pam's fat, and she knows it? And isn't there 2 episodes dedicated to her deciding to exercise because she doesn't like being fat, and she drops out of it both times? I dunno man, I don't think that's the best example to bring up...

Archer taught me that the key to healthy weight loss is to go on a strict all-cocaine diet for several weeks.

Also wear nothing but Tactical Turtlenecks to cover up any deformities you might have after that diet! Also replace cancer meds with sugar pills for money! And if you're a genius clone of Hitler, you CAN have the Waifu of your dreams!

 

[Josh123914]

I just wanted to add an image of a classically beautiful woman.

Spoiler: Not A Classically Beautiful Woman

Spoiler: Anyone A Fan of Archer?

Spoiler: How About Byron?

For me, it's the poetry that does it.

Um...isn't the running joke that Pam's fat, and she knows it? And isn't there 2 episodes dedicated to her deciding to exercise because she doesn't like being fat, and she drops out of it both times? I dunno man, I don't think that's the best example to bring up...

Archer taught me that the key to healthy weight loss is to go on a strict all-cocaine diet for several weeks.

Also wear nothing but Tactical Turtlenecks to cover up any deformities you might have after that diet! Also replace cancer meds with sugar pills for money! And if you're a genius clone of Hitler, you CAN have the Waifu of your dreams!

.....Wanna make an Archer thread?

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Fair enough.

I still don't really see how "not QUITE as fat as the US" is something to be proud of though.

 

[Redryhno]

Snip

Fair enough.

I still don't really see how "not QUITE as fat as the US" is something to be proud of though.

Well, everyone sorta likes comparing deaths from wars with the U.S. Might as well do it with the fat content as well.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

I find this crap to be incredibly insulting to women. Are they trying to suggest women are such brainless sheep that they cannot form a rational opinion about their own bodies, and instead care more about how fucking laura croft or some asanine mortal combat character looks?

How about some personal responsibility?

Maybe zsome parenting even?


Ps. Perhaps the *ahem* "average american" is not a good comparison to make... or even validate.

 

[BarrelsOfDouche]

Precisely, right? If I don't see any artistic value in something, I'm so completely cool with wresting creative control out of the hands of the people who make the stuff and into the hands of privileged college dropouts whose only exercise in creativity has been their blog.

 

[IceForce]

Let's not forget how swords are often ridiculously thick, Skyrim's swords make a good example since many of them would serve better as oars than proper blades.

Oh god, I hate that. They were fucking paddles.

Thankfully though, mods to the rescue once again.

 

[burnout02urza]

You've heard this here first, folks. It's not enough for fat people to be obese, they want you to love them for it.

In fact, you can only ever think about fat people. No fair imagining how a woman would be more desirable if she wasn't overweight! That's THOUGHT CRIME, citizen.

Seriously, this article is the strongest argument in favor of bulimia that I've ever seen.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

Blah Blah

Look, I had like a ton of paragraphs here just ripping what you said to shreds, because most of it just really isn't a good argument. But i'mma paraphrase for ya.

I never said all characters were attractive, I said majority were. Characters like Dante, Krieg, Kratos, Snake(s) and most FF males are made to be attractive men. And in my experience, that's the most you run into, unless they're a villain or being a joke. Maybe.

Cortana never makes sexual gestures, poses, or sounds. She is never once sexualized. She has breasts in Halo CE, though not as easy to notice due to being way more translucent. This character is not sexualized, nor is she shown to be flexible or ever having been dressed. You're making shit up and using a false argument. I'm also pretty sure you've never played Halo and paid attention to it, even in CE Cortana has a character.

These characters are portrayed like everyone else in their series, respectively. In very good, attractive condition, not really changing as their image is iconic, you can recognize these characters at a glance. Focusing on just the females does undercut their point. And if you're gonna lead into something saying about realistic, then edit something due to that. (Though they say accurate) But then do the same thing yourself, it's not helping. Their edited versions are not accurate to who they are, they don't show the muscle these characters would have, or the shape they would have in reality. Not to mention people looking at animated characters for a 'beauty standard' are starting with a flawed notion anyways. Unrealistic body image should be showing models actresses before the photoshop is shown anyways. Or just getting some average cosplayers.

The industry doesn't struggle with showing realistic women, for the most part it chooses not to. (Same with the males.) It's aesthetic, and a large part of how people react to characters. (Look at some of the flip outs people've had over design changes.) Also, they could have showed a picture of the fat women from LoZ and not try to bullshit with me with the Gerudo woman.

I don't argue their point. But they failed to do this well. Asides from GTA woman, they all come from extraordinary circumstances, and even then the GTA woman is entirely bullshit because there are plenty of more realistic feminine bodys in that game. Franklin's Aunt is one such woman. There are better examples they could have taken, and again, they could have done it better.

 

[Syzygy23]

Maybe people should be encouraged to lose weight rather than making their fictional characters fatter.

Well, that's kind of related to the concern that the group has, that the ever presence of this kind of body image represents an unattainable ideal for the average person, the pursuit of which could result in the development of the eating disorders they provide information about.

You could just diet and exercise to attain the figure you want.

 

[ILikeEggs]

You do realize that the image of Rikku is objectively bigger than the other one and seems to be zoomed in more, right?

While he is wrong, and you are correct in observing that, Kate is still actually significantly more 'normal' than the post-photoshop Rikku.

I've scaled the Rikku image down, and lined up both of them vertically, such that their shoulders, crotch and head are at identical heights. The red line is the width of Kate's waist, and as you can see, it is smaller than Rikku's waist, even from a 3/4th angle. The green lines indicate what Rikku's post-photoshop torso would look like if she were facing completely forward, as Kate is. The waist-discrepancy is even more pronounced now. It seems everyone who is arguing that photoshopped Rikku has a normal body(and the "artist" who photoshopped that image) has no anatomical knowledge whatsoever, because Rikku's skeletal structure is not normal by any definition of the word. So technically, the photoshopped Rikku actually has a similar bodyfat percentage as Kate Upton, but since the people making this couldn't get some of her most basic proportions, i.e ribcage and hip width right, it kind of invalidates everything else about her.

However, I find it ironic that people claiming these photoshopped images are more like 'real' women, will go and compare them to someone like Kate Upton who is absolutely not a 'normal' woman; someone who has a fitness and nutritional trainer, and still isn't what I would call healthy, or someone to be considered a body image role model. To elaborate, the extra bodyfat she has primarily around her torso, looks great, aesthetically. But then I'm not really talking about aesthetics, because the near complete lack of musculature everywhere is indicative of someone who will probably have bone, joint, cardio-vascular, and multiple other problems later in life.

 

[Hagi]

Maybe I'm just weird but I honestly found both women depicted fairly attractive and honestly don't really see any major life-altering difference...

One or two of the before pictures seemed to kinda lack any innards, which was weird. One or two of the after pictures could probably stand to lose a few pounds for a more healthy weight but overall I don't really see any problem with any of the pictures.

Just different shapes and sizes, nothing inherently wrong with any of them.

 

[Redryhno]

Maybe people should be encouraged to lose weight rather than making their fictional characters fatter.

Well, that's kind of related to the concern that the group has, that the ever presence of this kind of body image represents an unattainable ideal for the average person, the pursuit of which could result in the development of the eating disorders they provide information about.

You could just diet and exercise to attain the figure you want.

The figure you can get with diet and exercise may not be the figure you want. I'd expect someone with any experience with either diet, or exercise to know that. I'm not even talking about dieting, just normal diet and training routines. We can't all have every physique we want, we can have a range of ones our bodies offer.

For some people that's really skinny, or really muscular, or a little tubby, and loads of other variations.

If that's the case, where's the really skinny, the really muscular, all I'm seeing is loads of variations on tubby...

Not that it's bad, persay, but if you're going to say it's about a range of bodies in the world, where's the range of bodies?

Not to mention, again, I've yet to get an answer from anyone in full favor of this, not even an acknowledgement, why not real people? Actresses, models, celebrities in general? Why not photoshop them? Why not even cosplayers? Why not show real people with a variety of body types? What is the point of fictional characters they may not have been exposed to? Not to mention most of the characters having extraordinary lives but demanding they have average bodies? Where is the logic in that?

 

[Gigano]

Well, considering that about 69 % of Americans are overweight [http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm], perhaps the "American Average" isn't the healthiest standard to go by?

Also, not really anybody's business how a game designs its characters, except those designing said game.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

So, the project manager is? a man

And the article author is? a man.

This reeks of " Don't worry m'lady, i'll be offended on your behalf".

 

[Redryhno]

Maybe people should be encouraged to lose weight rather than making their fictional characters fatter.

Well, that's kind of related to the concern that the group has, that the ever presence of this kind of body image represents an unattainable ideal for the average person, the pursuit of which could result in the development of the eating disorders they provide information about.

You could just diet and exercise to attain the figure you want.

The figure you can get with diet and exercise may not be the figure you want. I'd expect someone with any experience with either diet, or exercise to know that. I'm not even talking about dieting, just normal diet and training routines. We can't all have every physique we want, we can have a range of ones our bodies offer.

For some people that's really skinny, or really muscular, or a little tubby, and loads of other variations.

If that's the case, where's the really skinny, the really muscular, all I'm seeing is loads of variations on tubby...

Not that it's bad, persay, but if you're going to say it's about a range of bodies in the world, where's the range of bodies?

Not to mention, again, I've yet to get an answer from anyone in full favor of this, not even an acknowledgement, why not real people? Actresses, models, celebrities in general? Why not photoshop them? Why not even cosplayers? Why not show real people with a variety of body types? What is the point of fictional characters they may not have been exposed to? Not to mention most of the characters having extraordinary lives but demanding they have average bodies? Where is the logic in that?

So because this one article didn't offer more than one set of alternatives, there should be NO alternatives? That makes no sense to me. Then you go on to talk about actors and actresses being photoshopped which is kind of odd too, since they come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and genders. There is a whole lot more variation in acting, than in games.

You also seem to be arguing against a group of people at once, instead of replying to me individually, which is also problematic. I don't answer for anyone else, so your problems with the thread in general are not my problems.

And you need to read again, I did not say that there shouldn't be alternatives, I said that if this is variety of alternatives, where is the variation? There is little variation in the article and they're using pixels instead of real people. If the ideal they're talking about is unobtainable, exactly how is this ideal any better? It's still pixels, it's not real people who you can point to and say "Like that", it's a bunch of characters that Are. Not. Average. Yet we're being told they need to look average for "realism" and "think of the chillen".

And again, what does using fictional characters that not everyone has been exposed to do? Why not one of the hundreds of models, actors, celebrities in general instead? Why photoshop pixels when you can just pull up a picture of, again, A REAL PERSON, and shop them? It gives much more impact and gives an alternative look at someone real.

And if there's more variation in acting, why not use all that variation instead of shopping fiction? Don't you think it would make more sense to pull up a somewhat untampered photo of a real person? Heck, this is an article about telling people they don't need to seriously harm themselves to heavily thin down, you'd think they'd want to talk about more than just a bunch of pixles on a screen. You'd think they'd want to bring out examples of the real world where people are healthy and fine the way they are, but they don't.

And you didn't answer my questions, but at least you tried, which is better than the last ten pages of people ignoring or just disappearing altogether.

 

[maninahat]

Question: what exactly is this trying to prove? That video games have unrealistic portrayals of the average woman? Well, guess what, these people aren't average in terms of physicality by any stretch of the definition (except the GTAV girl who isn't even a character in the game, and thus we have no insight in her lifestyle, and Cortana, who is a hologram). All of these are fighters who perform practically superhuman feats and applying realistic body standards to these characters makes no sense. This may have worked better if you were to apply what the average American is to, you know, average people.

I think the purpose is to tell people vulnerable to eating disorders that they should stop regarding idealized versions of women as a plausible standard of beauty that is worth starving yourself towards. Video games almost always show women as sexy and implausibly thin, and that might not be helpful in a society that invariably judges people (and particularly women) on appearance. By showing heavier versions of videogame characters, it kind of acts as a reality check that asserts a) it is unusual to look that thin and b) there isn't any harm in not looking that thin.

Every other argument people are making about fighting girls is kind of mute in regards to the above problem. It is insincere to claim that a fighter wouldn't be fat, seeing as how they probably wouldn't be stick thin with double Ds either (as games portray them). You don't ever see average proportioned people in games, whatever the context, and that is the bigger problem when trying to combat a negative self image; these people with eating disorders have little else to compare themselves to except for idealized fantasy women. That issue exists in most mediums beyond gaming, however within gaming it does feel exaggerated by the fact that games are often first and foremost to appeal to guys.

If that's the case, then again, I've yet to get an answer to this in the ten pages I've been asking the question(like, not even an acknowledgement), why not use real models instead of game characters? Heck, even cosplayers would work.

Why characters where nothing but the vaguely humanoid shape and language that pops up on-screen parallel the real world? Why these characters where they already have similar bodies to the real world as it is with what they do? Why not add muscle instead of fat? Why not reduce their busts(something I honestly would have no problem with because I'm not a big fan of huge boobs or butts and would like something else). Why not people from the real world with healthy bodies that also have extra weight to them? Why not one of a thousand different variations other than this?

I'm going to keep asking this question until I actually get a damn answer.

And I'm going to keep saying this, all this is is trading one extreme for another without any thought to having something in the middle.

The answer to the question is probably that a bunch of producers don't trust their core demographics to be able to play a game that doesn't have Barbie Doll proportioned, super sexy women. They think that the best way to make the game appeal (and thus sell more), is to shamelessly pander towards a stereotypical gamer who must have big tits and thigh gaps to appreciate a female form. It is an attitude that is demeaning to both women and men, but still alive and well (and apparently still quite effective a marketing technique, if the consumer response to Kate Upton's Game of War ads are any indicator of success).