Feminists, we need to talk about fedoras
- Thread starter Eamar
- Start date
If you would like to know the psychology to why women behave in this manner I recommend reading Marise Querlin's book entitled WOMEN WITHOUT MEN. You can find copies of this very old book in English (if you can't speak Fench don't fear). As a woman, after reading it, I felt I understood our gender substantially greater. It is worth finding, purchasing and reading. Even if you have to pay hundred of dollars (which thankfully I did not). I would have saved up to purchase it regardless of cost. It will help you better understand yourself and all women.
I am probably going to get Crucified for this one but screw it, here goes!
The Women who get all pissy about the "Nice Guy" believing he should get in your pants by virtue of his niceness makes you mad for the WRONG REASONS! I grew up, I went through Puberty and I heard all the whining that there aren't any men who aren't assholes. Yes there are, but you don't find them attractive. So some guys tried Listening to what the women were saying, and attempted the Nice approach, me included. ((this was 16 years ago)) Here we learned that staple of male stand up comedy: The WORDS coming out of a Woman's mouth ARE NOT equal to her meaning. Kind of ever.
I hold the opinion that in fact you DO want a nice person in your life. The problem is that the people who display the personality traits you SAY you want, doesn't make you feel funny in your Vagina. Make no mistake, those funny penis/vagina feelings are important. Essentially, I wish to Liken the View that Penises aren't necessary for either sex or procreation to either a complete FEAR of them, which I can respect and understand, or self-esteem issues stemming from people like say, MovieBob hitting on them. You can get as angry as you like about the people who try to court you, because they aren't pretty / smart / aware / fashionable / nice / sexy or whatever else.
The reason you can't get the one you want is because you just finished calling his mate a Fedora-Wearing, Misogynistic neck-beard, and posted that he should Kill Himself to his Twitter account.
It is time to share a piece of male wisdom: If you are mean to the girl you don't think is pretty, you can't complain when her hot friends call you a douchebag, and refuse to give you time of day.
The Women who get all pissy about the "Nice Guy" believing he should get in your pants by virtue of his niceness makes you mad for the WRONG REASONS! I grew up, I went through Puberty and I heard all the whining that there aren't any men who aren't assholes. Yes there are, but you don't find them attractive. So some guys tried Listening to what the women were saying, and attempted the Nice approach, me included. ((this was 16 years ago)) Here we learned that staple of male stand up comedy: The WORDS coming out of a Woman's mouth ARE NOT equal to her meaning. Kind of ever.
I hold the opinion that in fact you DO want a nice person in your life. The problem is that the people who display the personality traits you SAY you want, doesn't make you feel funny in your Vagina. Make no mistake, those funny penis/vagina feelings are important. Essentially, I wish to Liken the View that Penises aren't necessary for either sex or procreation to either a complete FEAR of them, which I can respect and understand, or self-esteem issues stemming from people like say, MovieBob hitting on them. You can get as angry as you like about the people who try to court you, because they aren't pretty / smart / aware / fashionable / nice / sexy or whatever else.
The reason you can't get the one you want is because you just finished calling his mate a Fedora-Wearing, Misogynistic neck-beard, and posted that he should Kill Himself to his Twitter account.
It is time to share a piece of male wisdom: If you are mean to the girl you don't think is pretty, you can't complain when her hot friends call you a douchebag, and refuse to give you time of day.
Thank you! Thank you for telling us ladies what we are doing wrong...I wondered why I wasn't having a good time only dating men who were potential drug dealers /sSilverStuddedSquirre said:
saying "all men are jerks" is just as much of a stupid generalisation as any, I also don't believe that being "nice" and "attractive" are mutually exclusive, and no, no one wants a stereotypical fedora for a damn good reason...they generally aren't nice people
Of coarse I say stereotypical because wearing a fedora dies not imedietly qualify Somone as an ass,,,,
I wanted to write a witty line about people wearing fedoras in general. However, everything I came up with sounded terribly insulting.Kalezian said:
At best, to me Fedoras are like the word "Swag". Just because you can use it doesn't mean you should...
Yes! LONG LIVE THE BEANIE! I know the feeling, trying to wear one in Florida where if the heat doesn't get you the humidity will. Hell, in the summer mine ends up working like a slightly more socially acceptable looking sweat-band than a hat, which is fine too.VanQ said:
Unfortunately, over here in America the beanie does have some unfortunate hipster/stoner/liberal-arts-degree-college-student connections, but given I'm one of the few people I've seen that can stand wearing them in Florida it doesn't come up.
OT: Meh. I don't think people judging other people for the kinds of clothes they wear is that big of a deal, though anyone worth talking to should know not to judge a book by it's cover. But I do think it's hilarious to see the hypocrisy coming from the people who do throw around "Fedora-wearing" when they usually have their own hang-ups about people judging their apparel.
I can totally understand not wanting the "typical fedora," they sound lame. I also understand that what I said is a generalization. I was counting on the readers here to understand my meaning without the need for six paragraphs, and was not disappointed.Vault101 said:
Also, since my own understanding is muddled, there "Fedoras" basically act like Nice Guys, but then pull out the classic "Dyke" argument when the Lady they are courting wishes nothing to do with them? Is this correct?I ask so I don't use my previous post like a diving board for Twitter level Idiocies. While I stand by that opinion, it can only be applied to a small percentage of women, and should not be taken to mean that all of these guys deserve some sort of defense; I cannot speak to your own experiences with them, and I am sorry that a new way for Men to be shitty to women has developed.
[edit] For the record, I enjoy Dijon mustard with my Foot-in-Mouth pie.
aside from the ever annoying "well ladies everything is actually YOUR fault and allow me to mansplain what it is you want and how you should be doing things..." I'm not entirly sure what you were sayingSilverStuddedSquirre said:
[quote/]Essentially, I wish to Liken the View that Penises aren't necessary for either sex or procreation to either a complete FEAR of them, which I can respect and understand, or self-esteem issues stemming from people like say, MovieBob hitting on them. [/quote]
this for example....wut?
this for example....wut?[/quote]Vault101 said:
You know, I got nothing. I think I had a point before I started typing, but whatever it was I sure managed to say some dumb things in it's place. I doubt if it was even a good point at all. I came to this thread basically as a WTF, and then after reading a few things, decided to "Mansplain" (that's funny, I like it) and I think, managed to put a big neon fedora on.
Please accept both my sincere apology, and the hanging of my head in shame for a while.
Now to attempt an answer to your question. There are a great many people who are quite uncomfortable with sex, in any way, including talking about it. I would say that the author of the article seems to be like this, using PIV all the time. It could also just stem from a belief that the words Penis and Vagina, even in their correct usages, are foul language. The expressed view that all PIV is rape, suggests otherwise. Rape is a horrific experience, and to associate it with all penetration suggests fear.
On the subject of self-esteem being affected by the perceived attractiveness of those who do, or rather do not, hit on you: I have seen it in both my men and women friends, regardless of sexuality, and at times in my life, experienced it for myself. The feeling that I'm not as worthy because the Goddess over there hasn't talked with me, and looked away when I smiled at her as if I gave her the bird.That is the best I can do with what I wrote, and I don't think it's much.
I still wish I had been smart enough to see that If I need to preface my post with "I am going to get crucified for this" what I ought to do is shut up. I certainly think I should stop talking for today, but I don't want to run away because I made a derp.
Because the two things people who lack confidence need... are mockery and having their character questioned.RatherDull said:
*slow clap*
Bravo, Feminists. Your compassion for the other half of the human race truly knows no bounds.
Please do save it. For ever. Just keep it to yourself.
what article? the "PIV is always rape" is a fringe sect of feminism thats...well fringe and its not relevant to this thread OR fedora shaming..I feel the OP made it a feminist issue when its not...not completly because MANY people shame the sterotypical fedora wearer for various reasons..the "freindzone" is only one of themSilverStuddedSquirre said:
Oh so I went off all Mansplaining after reading the Feminist equivalent of Alien Astronaut Theorists? Wow I'm doin' really well today. I should stick to my playstation where I can't do any more harm.Vault101 said:
Just to point out, radical feminism does not equate with feminists with extreme beliefs.Eamar said:
Radical feminism is a proper school of thought within feminism.
Sorry, huge pet peeve.
I'm also not sure why you're allowing some third-hand accounts of people with particularly extreme and exceptionally uncommon beliefs to threaten your own views or why you feel you need to be almost apologetic for them.
While I can't speak for Eamar, I'd imagine the distinction comes from the tenacity and hostility with which a certain subsect of self-proclaimed feminists tries to hunt down and confront any hint of males using fedoras online. To the point that calling someone a fedora wearing MRA is a rather popular feminist insult on sites like Tumblr, the dozens of blogs that specifically categorize and mock people for wearing them, sites like Fedoras of OKcupid, all of which seem to be run by very outspoken feminists, it could also be the multiple articles on feminist online magazines like Jezebel and Slate, that make the link between fedoras and misogyny.Vault101 said:
In a sort of ironic twist, the association of feminism to fedora hate is very similar to how fedoras first got linked to the nerdy Reddit Atheist crowd, a number of very loud feminists took up the cause of hating fedoras, and spun that hate into enough attention that outside crowds began to see it as something many feminists are or should be against. Other groups may mock fedoras, but when it comes to genuine frothing at the mouth hatred, the popular perception seems to slot feminists into that perception. Much like how a few loud neckbeard Atheists poisoned the perception of fedoras on some corners of the internet, a few loud hateful feminists have linked the internets collective perception of the really rabid fedora hate to feminists in general.
Sucks, but, the internet stereotype sword cuts both ways.
This particular brand of radical feminism has traction on some corners of the internet, but most feminists find it fairly distasteful, these radfems are rare, but they are also very angry, and very VERY loud.SilverStuddedSquirre said:
This branch of radical feminism also tends to be heavily anti-transexual, they flock around extremist feminist writers like Andrea Dworkin, or the SCUM manifesto, and generally view the concept of patriarchy as a system that must be dismantled and destroyed, through force if necessary.
Mainstream feminist advocacy groups actively distance themselves from this particular ideology, but they manage to have their own conventions and websites, so they are fringe, but can by annoyingly well organized when they want to be.
Mansplain is the dumbest thing ever I might as well ignore what women say about guys because thats womansplain.
It is not even rad fems who bash fedora apparently the fedora was just some psuedo intellectual thing then for some reason it got associated with all things people love to get into a tizzy about the "nice guy" boogeyman, "friendzone" and insert other thing reddit hates.
I think the people who hate fedoras want it to be a thing more than the people who wear them. It is just one big catch all because at this point. Plus its kind of sad really nerdy guys are pretty much low hanging fruit on the "misogyny" ladder so endless punching bags I guess.
Like others with logic have said it is a F@#KING HAT.
It is not even rad fems who bash fedora apparently the fedora was just some psuedo intellectual thing then for some reason it got associated with all things people love to get into a tizzy about the "nice guy" boogeyman, "friendzone" and insert other thing reddit hates.
I think the people who hate fedoras want it to be a thing more than the people who wear them. It is just one big catch all because at this point. Plus its kind of sad really nerdy guys are pretty much low hanging fruit on the "misogyny" ladder so endless punching bags I guess.
Like others with logic have said it is a F@#KING HAT.
perhaps its a bit more of a snarky term than it should be (and used in situations where the guy is geniunly trying to be helpful)....but basically its when guys (misguidedly) try and explain things to women eather unessicaryly (cause they think she doesnt understand because shes a woman) or when they themselfs may not actually know what they are talking aboutRiot3000 said:
[quote/]It is not even rad fems who bash fedora apparently the fedora was just some psuedo intellectual thing then for some reason it got associated with all things people love to get into a tizzy about the "nice guy" boogeyman, "friendzone" and insert other thing reddit hates.[/quote]
its a sterotype like any other...even if you don't think the freindzone is a thing...[i/]at its absolute most basic[/i] putting a fedora on your head which is mis matched with your t shirt and shorts will not make you look unique or smart..it makes you look silly, nothing to do with "feminism" there
[quote/]Like others with logic have it is a F@#KING HAT.[/quote]
yep...no logic to be found here
It's a particularly ugly side of some second-wave feminist theory that's poured over into some modern day writing.Vault101 said:
It's not a huge percentage but it exists and it's pretty gross.
There're some ideological reasonings behind it but they don't matter because the discrimination is not something that should be tolerated. It just goes to show that there're bigots in every ideology or why "egalitarianism" doesn't work as a blanket term. It's a nice theory but, in reality, it couldn't be a unified, effective movement.
It's largely a matter of sex and how some groups view the inherent relationship of sex with gender norms. Radical feminism is an ideology that views sex as concrete, having a vagina makes you a woman, no exceptions, and having a penis makes you a man, also no exceptions. This particular group are known as TERFs (trans-exclusionary radical feminists), by the more mainstream feminist movement, they even have a yearly convention called Radfem, which just had its latest conference in 2013.Vault101 said:
To the TERFs, they see feminism as a movement by women, and for women, male allies are not wanted or welcome. They see MtF (male-to-female) transgenders as trying to invade their female only space, to them, a transgender woman is just a man in a dress. They also tend to see transgender women as reinforcing the negative gender roles that they wish to destroy, to them, this is merely a man who is acting out a female stereotype, and that infuriates them. In the case of FtM (female-to-male), TERFs see this as a betrayal of feminist values and ideals, it is a woman who wants to latch on to the patriarchy that the radfem movement seeks to dismantle and destroy.
The less extreme TERFs will state that they don't hate transgender people on principle, they just don't view them as women, so they are not allowed to participate in feminism or feminist advocacy, because, as stated earlier, one of the central pillars of the Radfem offshoot is that feminism is only for women, and must be planned, supplied, and executed solely by women, solely for women.