Feminists, we need to talk about fedoras

[Deadcyde]

Yeah, I never got the whole "fedora" meme either. Especially now, since people on other message boards try to link it to autism or atheism, which makes no fucking sense. How are any of those things related?

EDIT: Also, I'm glad I don't wear hats in general, lol.

try finding my post. Its involves an atheist reddit board that got hijacked by misogynistic creepers that choose it as a symbol to try to make themselves seem more classy and more "intelligent" despite the fact they are basically very creepy people.

It devolved into 4chan level crap about how they are better than everyone, how they are nonconformist, and how they are hated and feared for it. The board got purged in the form of banning it from the front page.

Its now a hated symbol, even by athiests. because it implies the person knows about reddit and therefore was part of the community who hijacked their board to talk about how society hates them because they are "better."

Its now a joke, and tied to cringey teens and bitter young men because of that fiasco.

The board is now back to being a board about atheists, though.

So basically it boils down to being a flash in the pan, and not a symbol after all.

Seriously, people need to stop doing this; acting like it some sort of "thing" when clearly it's a minority of nothingness given slight recognition by contemporary media.

Also, you speak to other peoples motives too much dude. You need to stop, as someone who goes on Reddit and is atheist I certainly don't agree with the assertions you made on my behalf. Thank you.

 

[Vault101]

[snip

focusing on womens rights and womens rights alone IS THE WHOLE POINT of feminism, now that does cross over with issues that affect men (like ridgid gender roles) and theres no reason a man can't call himself a feminist (though thats a whole can of worms)

the thing is no one gives a crap about a social justice issue unless it somhow affects them, women need to speak out for their rights, gays need to speak out for their rights, racial minoritys need to speak out for their rights because white males (and often others in other groups) will NOT speak for them and to some extent is unable to speak for them because "they" may not understand what it is to be something different

I always feel when people say "I rather elgaitarianism to feminism" I see it as saying "could we all just be eaqual so you people will stop talking about your issues?"

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Please explain to me how this is not misandry: http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Ironically, that blog is the most misogynist thing I have ever read.

Apparently, all women are brainwashed and helpless. They can never engage or enjoy sex. Men are the dominant force by default 100% of the time and a woman's only hope is to avoid them for they will fall easily.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

The Fedora (or Trilby?) is akin to the leopard print. Gaudy, I'm not going to stop you wearing it, but I am always going to have an eyebrow cocked, and hesitation to questions such as; 'Do I look alright'?


They need to die, like leg warmers and massive hair.

 

[Vault101]

.reddit drama.

oh man I was there...it started as some feud between pcmasterrace and /r/gaming resulting in master race getting deleted. seems like the mod in question was just an "anti pc gamer" type due to pcmasterrace (which to be fair is a circlejerk sub that gets old after 5 minutes)

 

[Vault101]

massive hair.

some of us have "massive" hair naturally

 

[ender1200]

Please explain to me how this is not misandry: http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Ironically, that blog is the most misogynist thing I have ever read.

Apparently, all women are brainwashed and helpless. They can never engage or enjoy sex. Men are the dominant force by default 100% of the time and a woman's only hope is to avoid them for they will fall easily.

Funny how something can be both misandric and misogynist at the same time. "The desposable male" attitude is very much the same in this regard, on one hand it piant man as les important making they death less of a tragedy, but on the other hand it assume that woman are inharitly either halpless and needing man to save them from peril and\or derive their worth from their status as "property" of those who defend them.

As for fadoras. I am most bothered by how some people use the "image" of a fat fedora wearing man with "neckbeard" as a way to dehumanise and other people who they don't agree with. This is te thing that really ticks me off.

 

[Karadalis]

Huh.. seeing Eanmar with that hat made me wonder why not more females wear hats in general.. it looks good.

Well i guess Fedoras have their own stigma nowadays... just like cheerleaders have a certain stigma to them... (the blonde bimbo mean spirited girl)

While ofcourse mostly overblown both these stigma didnt apear out of thin air, but wearing a fedora/being cheerleader alone for itselfe is no reason to ridicule anyone in my opinion.

That only starts after they start talking

 

[DjinnFor]

TL;DR: My belief is this: if you're against shaming women for their choice of clothing, quit shaming men for wearing hats. Do you agree? Or have I completely missed the point somewhere? Discuss!

The point is that it seems most ideological feminists fundamentally don't believe in any of the feminist ideology on principle, only when doing so serves to benefit women. Feminists appear to be okay with rape, genital mutilation, domestic violence, body policing, sexuality shaming et cetera (to list some of the common feminist talking points), as long as it's men as victims. At least, the ideologues who run the major internet websites, head the major feminist organizations, and perform the bulk of what passes for feminist "scientific" literature appear to, which is why they don't talk about male victims of any key feminist issue even when there is gender parity, or proactively marginalize them if ever brought up. Even suicide, widely recognized as a gendered issue for males, is marginalized when analyzed through the feminist lens.

So to apply this to the current example, feminists will sexually shame ("you're just a virgin living in his mothers basement, oh and you're a creep too gtfo") and body police ("fat white dude with a fedora") men, because doing so doesn't hurt women. This is especially prevalent when said individuals question feminist hegemony or ideology; feminist ideologues appear to put great stock in emotions, so when somebody says something that they disagree with, they feel validated when their flight-or-fight response kicks in and they emotionally attack the target group.

 

[Vault101]

The point is that it seems most ideological feminists fundamentally don't believe in any of the feminist ideology on principle, only when doing so serves to benefit women.

feminist ideology is fundamentally about womens issues so...that doesn't make much sense

[quote/]Feminists appear to be okay with rape, genital mutilation, domestic violence, body policing, sexuality shaming et cetera (to list some of the common feminist talking points), as long as it's men as victims.[/quote]

hmmm

[spoiler/][img/]http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb437/Vault10191/XCOM_Wrong_zps7403c07d.gif[/img][/spoiler]

WRRRRROOOOOOooooooonnngggg

 

[MalkavianLunatic]

Personally, I think it's foolish to shame anyone over something so silly like what they choose to wear. Clothing styles and trends come and go; people should be judged on their actions, if anything.

That said, while I did think the example with the miniskirt was easy to grasp, you can't really overlook the idea that women have had to deal with such issues for longer than men wearing fedoras (or, if you want to be technical, trillby, since most of the men I've seen calling their hats a 'fedora' don't seem to understand the difference). And that's not even getting into the idea that some of these guys who choose to wear these hats (which I think are kind of cute, actually) behave in such a way that it's become more than a clothing choice-- it's become a symbol of that irritating group of men who put on their hats and complain endlessly about being "friendzoned" and how they're such "nice guys".

I'm not saying that all women who wear miniskirts are innocent victims and I'm not going to say that all men who wear fedoras and trillbies are misogynistic jerks. However, the most verbal of jerks have turned the hat style into one more box to tick off when first impressions come around. It's sad and it's wrong, but unfortunately it seems to be part of the trend presently. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but that's just my personal experience and observation.

 

[DjinnFor]

feminist ideology is fundamentally about womens issues so...that doesn't make much sense

Just because feminism is about "womens issues" does not require it to be a supremacist hate group that lacks principles. If that doesn't make sense to you I don't know what else to say.

hmmm

WRRRRROOOOOOooooooonnngggg

It's nice to see I struck a nerve, and I was correct in predicting a flight-or-flight emotional attack. Thanks for adding nothing at all whatsoever to the discussion. When you have an argument, criticism, or question regarding anything I've written, let me know.

 

[marioandsonic]

Yeah, I never got the whole "fedora" meme either. Especially now, since people on other message boards try to link it to autism or atheism, which makes no fucking sense. How are any of those things related?

EDIT: Also, I'm glad I don't wear hats in general, lol.

try finding my post. Its involves an atheist reddit board that got hijacked by misogynistic creepers that choose it as a symbol to try to make themselves seem more classy and more "intelligent" despite the fact they are basically very creepy people.

It devolved into 4chan level crap about how they are better than everyone, how they are nonconformist, and how they are hated and feared for it. The board got purged in the form of banning it from the front page.

Its now a hated symbol, even by athiests. because it implies the person knows about reddit and therefore was part of the community who hijacked their board to talk about how society hates them because they are "better."

Its now a joke, and tied to cringey teens and bitter young men because of that fiasco.

The board is now back to being a board about atheists, though.

So basically it boils down to being a flash in the pan, and not a symbol after all.

Seriously, people need to stop doing this; acting like it some sort of "thing" when clearly it's a minority of nothingness given slight recognition by contemporary media.

Also, you speak to other peoples motives too much dude. You need to stop, as someone who goes on Reddit and is atheist I certainly don't agree with the assertions you made on my behalf. Thank you.

The people that came into that board and took it over were no more atheist than those "white kid cholos" who weren't actual cholos that popped up in the 90s. Even though the image of the cholo they were emulating is sorta anachronistic.

There is a reason its the biggest joke on the atheist board, just like console gamers pretending they own a "quad firelevel PC" is the joke of PC gamer related reddits.

Unless your ONLY reason to be atheist is to be "cool" then you are safe. You shouldn't suddenly be offended when I say an atheist board was taken over by people who weren't atheist in the first place. You should know what side you are on. Its obvious who I am talking about: The creepers who came into an atheist board and turned it into a mish mash of tumblr, MRA, pseudo red pill, and fads. Because it was "niche" and therefore "cool."

The board ended up worse than all the other boards on the front page and had been for a while. It wasn't until recently when the board was taken off the front page did they go away.

Which is why I stressed that the board is back to normal NOW. That the board is far better off now than it was during the fedora craze. Which leads me to believe you didn't even read my post.

It wasn't a flash in the pan, it was a problem that plagued a front page board for a while. Just like how /R/ Gaming was made fun of when one of its moderators turned out to not be a gamer at all and started banning anyone with a PC because "pcs are for taxes. They aren't for games."

Reddit is extremely popular and a symbol that comes up in the popular opinion, however infrequently, it stays up forever.

Furries have to deal with people who think their "secret cult" conventions have wild unprotected orgies with actual animals. From a SINGLE episode from an old TV show that aired, what, 10 years ago?

PC gamers get shit because of a litany of falsehoods about technology that people get from NCIS and other shows. people still think PC gamers are stuck in 1992 and have gigantic brains even though the truth is far from it.

Console gamers get flak because of the screaming homophobic kiddies who supposedly plagued XBL. Or rather, the youtube videos of XBL because you only record when stuff goes very wrong.

Bronies are thought to be "mentally disabled" or seen as pedophiles. Because of that one brony who was disabled got recognition from the people that made MLP. People made that one individual to represent an entire demographic.

A lot of things get put into the cultural mind based on a few or a single instance. The fedora is up there, and it was a very public instance that dates back all the way back to 2012. It was the front page of reddit, that isn't private. No more private than being plastered on the front page of facebook.

There is a reason the fedora is laughed at in the atheist board now. The people that tried to adopt it did more damage to atheists than anything else.

granted, the fedora hate started way earlier but reddit reminded everyone why the fedora isn't liked.

This is basically just back round history. They asked why the fedora is laughed at and why it was linked to atheism, I answered.

Oh, believe me, I've heard this one.

Anyway, thanks for clearing that issue up for me. Sadly, once something like that has happened and is associated to your group or clique, that stigma rarely ever goes away.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

It's nice to see I struck a nerve, and I was correct in predicting a flight-or-flight emotional attack. Thanks for adding nothing at all whatsoever to the discussion. When you have an argument, criticism, or question regarding anything I've written, let me know.

If your comment annoys someone it doesnt mean its correct -_- at least thats what i get from reading "struck a nerve and predicted" as if pissing someone off earns points in an argument for correctness. Apologies if thats not what you meant but i hate that goddam tactic so much.

For example I think a LOT of mens issues stem from womens issues. Women beating men is funny because women are weak and men are strong so no real harm should be done. If it is then thats humiliating because a weak woman defeated a strong man. Crying, cooking/cleaning for your family and child rearing are things women do, and thus for a man to do them is bad and he will be assumed to be bad at them (which is why custody cases are lost so often).

Some like the mutilation are just weird tradition things I think are worth fighting seperate from feminism. However ive come to the conclusion that a lot of what men arent allowed to do or are mocked for doing stems from them being seen as women and being a women is bad. Thus if we correct how society views women we correct how a society sees men who do things traditionally done by women. Seems like cause and effect to me.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

I'm gonna keep judging people who wear fedoras. Maybe in some places it's a stereotype rather than a legitimate phenomenon, but in my hometown only douchebags wear them.

 

[carnex]

How about judging people by their deeds not their gender or clothes? I mean, it's metal all over again. People do it to identify with group. But even if you wear swastika it doesn't mean you are NeoNazi. Or that you are racist, anti gay etc. Clothes mean nothing. FFS there were gay blacks wearing KKK uniforms with swastikas to demonstrate how meaningless clothes can be.

 

[Norithics]

My SO wears a trillby, but he wears it with black slacks, loafers and a long-sleeved dress shirt. His frame, specs and facial hair make him look like a museum curator or like he's about to open Jurassic Park. Bottom line, it looks amazing on him.

I, on the other hand, wear Slob Chic because nothing formal ever looks good on me thanks to my debilitating condition of Having a Huge Face.

Still, I suppose I would feel rightly offended if someone immediately thought of me as a creep with misdirected libidinous anger because of a hat. Good thread.