FF7 remake most important ever, and that's not a compliment

[RJ 17]

But if they have people writing articles about video games, I think we can assume that they hired people who at least know something about them. This guy may work for a primarily political publication, but his opinion is not automatically less than yours because of it.

For starters: he doesn't work for the Huffington Post...he's a freelancer. This means that he quite literally is "random jackass with an opinion." It'd be one thing if he was HP's "official gaming coverage", but that's not the case.

In the end, it's just an opinion piece...one that has very little merit, judging by the comment section of that article (yes, I did eventually click into it...specifically to read through the comment section). There's nothing wrong with having an opinion of course, and I'm not faulting the guy for stating his. I'm just saying that there's no real reason to care - or get upset about - anything that guy has to say.

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

But if they have people writing articles about video games, I think we can assume that they hired people who at least know something about them. This guy may work for a primarily political publication, but his opinion is not automatically less than yours because of it.

For starters: he doesn't work for the Huffington Post...he's a freelancer. This means that he quite literally is "random jackass with an opinion." It'd be one thing if he was HP's "official gaming coverage", but that's not the case.

In the end, it's just an opinion piece...one that has very little merit, judging by the comment section of that article (yes, I did eventually click into it...specifically to read through the comment section). There's nothing wrong with having an opinion of course, and I'm not faulting the guy for stating his. I'm just saying that there's no real reason to care - or get upset about - anything that guy has to say.

Perhaps, but people will be upset by it. And people who agree with him will be upset that fanboys are upset. And the world keeps on turning.

Just to be clear, I don't have an opinion on FF7. I thought this was an interesting wrench to throw into the topic of the remake. But if he is just 'some random jackass,' I guess it's your prerogative to call bullshit.

 

[Saltyk]

(and let's face it, crossdressing Cloud would just look WEIRD with an HD upgrade)

Is it weird that I'd actually looking forward to that scene in the Remake? Also, the motorcycle escape should be awesome.

I can't really comment much on FF7 personally, but I'm not entirely sure what it is with the need to prove classic games are overrated and just loved because of nostalgia. It comes across as losing an argument and then coming back twenty years later to see if you can get your revenge. Basically, it's pretty much the most pathetic form of the "this game is so overrated!" arguments.

It's cut from the same cloth as the constant droning of how sequels and franchises are the devil; it's a way for people to feel like they're more daring and curious than they actually are, as well as to make up for the MASSIVE insecurity of how a game nearly twenty years old still hasn't been beaten. A remake of it pretty much means that the guys at Square have given up on ever surpassing it as they frequently said they would not remake it until they released an FF that surpassed it in sales and acclaim, which still hasn't happened. Seriously, stuff that's twenty years old isn't remembered fondly solely due to nostalgia (because if nostalgia was the sole or main factor then the FMV phase of gaming wouldn't be relentlessly mocked as it is).

Damn, you are kicking some ass in this thread. I really have to agree with the statement that nostalgia isn't enough. Yes, FF7 is my all time favorite game, but it's not simply due to nostalgia or my history with the game. It's because it's a great game.

It's the same reason I still love Jurassic Park to this day. It's why movies like Casablanca are still good to this day. It's why the classic Abbot and Costello "Who's on First" routine is still hilarious to this day. It's why Shakespeare is still relevant. Why the work of artists like Michelangelo and Da Vinci are still respected today.

Good is good.

If you go into anything expecting it to be great based on word of mouth, you will almost always be disappointed, which is why I think we get people calling it overrated. They heard nothing but good stuff about it and expected something that it could never live up to. I suspect that the aged graphics are more than a small part of this.

Seriously, I legitimately play FF7 almost every single year. I've beaten it over a dozen times. I'm practically the game's strategy guide in flesh. At this point, I'm really considering downloading it from Steam and using some of the Mods that make it more difficult for the Hell of it. I love the game and while I have stated that I didn't want a remake in the past, I still look forward to it. I want to see all those environments and enemies in all their glory. I have some misgivings (especially when it comes to the combat as stated in another thread), but I have hope.

 

[jklinders]

Someone get the author of that huffpo piece a pair of black thick rimmed glasses. I smelled hipster pretty early in. Then he went on his utterly useless irrelevant rant about things in that era that went sour. He could have made his point in third of the words and probably trimmed it down some more. So I rate that article about 4/10 with most of those points going towards the fact it was reasonably well edited.

In my opinion, there is not one issue he raised about the game that cannot be adequately addressed with the newer tech currently available. If he is serious, well that's more his problem than anyone else's if he feels that way, but I feel that it was a clickbait piece and I feel dirty for clicking it.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Why are you comparing a game like XCOM, which is a turn-based strategy game, to a standard turn-based RPG? ALL standard RPG's can be optimized in a way that make the player broken. This is true in Final Fantasy games all the way up to Dark Souls. Do not compare apples to oranges. It doesn't work. However, I liked to play the game with only about four gambits on per character and with me taking control of all the action myself. It feels more hectic and fun that way instead of letting it play all on its own... also, Final Fantasy XII is very underrated. I love that game.

It is true that X is pretty easy, though. The game is not really a challenge. My last play through I died only once to Seymore at Gagazet, and that had had to do with his dumb random damaged missiles wiping out the whole party... >.<

I'm not really comparing FF10 to XCOM. I'm merely pointing out that a good turn-based combat system would not play itself with a few if-then-else statements. If you can make a turn-based combat system play itself with a few if-then-else statements, then it's not strategic enough to merit it being turn-based; make the combat action-based if there's not going to be any strategy to it so it's actually fun and isn't a huge time waste for the player. Just imagine how long it would take to defeat all those skeletons in that one mine in FF12 with FF10's battle system, all poorly done turn-based battle systems do is waste the player's time.

I use Xenosaga II instead of XCOM if you want; while not being super strategic, Xenosaga II at least had enough strategy to it to not play itself with a few if-then-else statements. Xenosaga II had the best battle system of the series yet people disliked it the most in the series.

I did enjoy FF12 but the game is very flawed. One thing that is great about FF12 is how you can just walk out that first gate and see all those creatures like that dinosaur and such, the world feels alive. Due to random battles being in prior FFs, the world felt lifeless (like the Calm Lands in FF10).

 

[Bat Vader]

The whole point of a critic is to criticize stuff though. That's their main thing. What's wrong with picking things apart? If a game has weird or terrible dialogue people should know that the dialogue is weird or terrible. Shitty dialogue can ruin the immersion for me in a game. I highly doubt what these people say are killing gaming.

I bought and played FFVII back when it was released on PC again and I didn't really care for it. I thought it was decent but nothing special.

It's not wrong to pick things apart, but it is wrong to do it mathematically as if certain aspects not being up to scratch take away from the game's overall experience. When what the whole experience is actually about has little to do with said aspects.

They are killing games, because you end up with companies like Bioware trying to appease everyone, and worrying about stuff like having to be open world, having to have action based combat instead of turn based, etc. etc.

It's bollocks. So long as it's a good experience then that's all that matters. Emotion and an enjoyable experience isn't to do with maths, yet we've these scientific types trying to turn everything into a formulaic mass production product.

Some people don't like turn based combat. I sure don't. Most battles felt like a boring slog to get through. There were a few I liked but they were few and far between. My favorite combat systems in JRPGs is the combat system in Kingdom Hearts II and the combat system in Tales of Xillia.

That's fair enough, but again we're back to out of context criticism.

You don't buy a driving game then state you don't like driving mechanics, or by a RTS game then say you much prefer turn based combat.

Criticizing FF7's ATB system is like going to a prostitute and moaning that she's a bit easy, or drinking 12 pints of lager and moaning it's made you fat - you know what you're getting and you shouldn't be surprized.

I love the ATB system and FF7 battles, they're about great atmosphere, exciting camera shots and dramatic attacks. It's one great show like watching KISS' Ace Frehely fire a rocket out his guitar and Gene Simmons fly up to the roof. If you start whining about Ace's inability to shred or the cheesey nature of songs you've missed the entire point. Hence why that critic is thick and coming from the angle of "too dumb to grasp the game in context"

Personally I love DA:I and ME3. They are two of my favorite games. The ending didn't really bother me. I went into FFVII trying to like it. I heard people who hate turn based combat enjoy the combat in FFVII so I thought I would like it. Instead it felt like most of the other turn based combat games I played.

 

[Frankster]

but even compared to other games that came out around the same time, it was never very good

Epic load of BS on this sentence. I know it's the hipster thing to say retroactively that you knew that the game EVERYONE loved at release was crap all along and only now have the common folk caught up to that realization, but that doesn't mean one gets a white card to completely rewrite history either.

Heck do you even remember what rpgs they were on the ps1 prior to FF7? I can, and whilst I would consider at least 1 of them (wild arms) to be better then FF7, they didn't have the wow factor that made people buy the playstation in droves and cement its place as leader of the console wars of that time.

So OP, which ps1 rpg prior to the release of FF7 do you consider a better game? I mean if you're gonna say something like "compared to other games that came out around the same time", then you should give a few examples to show you actually know what you're talking about and not just repeating it cos you read it somewhere.

I really enjoy lobbing grenades at the untouchable classics.

Ff7 an "untouchable" classic? o0
It's like the single most bitched about old classic and cited example of an overrated game there is, and this was even before the announcement of the remake! You could not have found an easier target if you tried..

 

[BytByte]

I haven't played the game so I can't really agree or disagree with the writer or people here disagreeing with him, but I do have a question about the fervent clamor for the remakes.

Why?

That sounds really dismissive, but I just have never understood the demand for remakes in general. In this forum alone I've seen people want the first 3 Uncharted games to be remade, despite that being only a console generation ago. FF7 is older, but the devs have stated they are basically remaking the game to be on next gen consoles, so why not just make a new game altogether?

What do these remakes provide? Is it new content like Kingdom Hearts Final Mixes? Is it just better graphics? Is it to allow younger gamers to experience past games?

I know the answers to those questions will vary from person to person, but I still genuinely have never really understood game remakes, especially ones that are done so soon after the original game was released. I'm definitely not saying wanting a remake is wrong, but I am definitely having hard time understanding what a remake does that the original game does not.

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

but even compared to other games that came out around the same time, it was never very good

Epic load of BS on this sentence. I know it's the hipster thing to say retroactively that you knew that the game EVERYONE loved at release was crap all along and only now have the common folk caught up to that realization, but that doesn't mean one gets a white card to completely rewrite history either.

Heck do you even remember what rpgs they were on the ps1 prior to FF7? I can, and whilst I would consider at least 1 of them (wild arms) to be better then FF7, they didn't have the wow factor that made people buy the playstation in droves and cement its place as leader of the console wars of that time.

So OP, which ps1 rpg prior to the release of FF7 do you consider a better game? I mean if you're gonna say something like "compared to other games that came out around the same time", then you should give a few examples to show you actually know what you're talking about and not just repeating it cos you read it somewhere.

I really enjoy lobbing grenades at the untouchable classics.

Ff7 an "untouchable" classic? o0
It's like the single most bitched about old classic and cited example of an overrated game there is, and this was even before the announcement of the remake! You could not have found an easier target if you tried..

I should have made it more clear in the OP, but again, I'm neutral on this subject. I never played FF7. I didn't even play RPGs in the PS1 days, I played Tekken and Twisted Metal. I know I have no legitimate opinion on the game, which is why I'm not offering one. I just read an article that I thought was interesting, and thought it might also light a few fires on this forum. I'm just having fun, trying to provoke some conversation.

And come on, don't tell me that FF7 is just as open to criticism as any other game. This thread has already proven that some people will completely dismiss you for having a less than glowing opinion of their favorite nostalgia trip.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I think this remake will suck. Especially as they are changing everything about it and i really hate modern FF combat. If they make it modern graphic wise yet keep the combat the same then im happy.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I haven't played the game so I can't really agree or disagree with the writer or people here disagreeing with him, but I do have a question about the fervent clamor for the remakes.

Why?

That sounds really dismissive, but I just have never understood the demand for remakes in general. In this forum alone I've seen people want the first 3 Uncharted games to be remade, despite that being only a console generation ago. FF7 is older, but the devs have stated they are basically remaking the game to be on next gen consoles, so why not just make a new game altogether?

What do these remakes provide? Is it new content like Kingdom Hearts Final Mixes? Is it just better graphics? Is it to allow younger gamers to experience past games?

I know the answers to those questions will vary from person to person, but I still genuinely have never really understood game remakes, especially ones that are done so soon after the original game was released. I'm definitely not saying wanting a remake is wrong, but I am definitely having hard time understanding what a remake does that the original game does not.

A real remake is different than say a remaster. I'm not a fan of remasters at all. Why waste time remastering something like say Uncharted (when only 1 of them was good) or The Last of Us when it's not going to change the game at all? I did buy the remaster of The Last of Us but only because I never got around to playing it on PS3 so why not? I would've played it on PS3 if there was no remaster. The only remaster that I ever bought that I had already played the games in it was the ICO/Shadow of the Colossus remaster because those games are so good and my PS2 didn't work anymore. It was nice seeing the games in a better resolution and framerate for Shadow. But I do hate how many remasters come out nowadays, that time and effort can go towards new games.

Remakes are different though and rather rare. I never played FF7 because I knew I would never like it because I hate turn-based combat when there's no strategy to it, it just wastes my time (and a lot of it). I'm sorta looking forward to playing a remake of FF7 because it might be a game that I'd actually enjoy this time with an enjoyable battle system.

 

[Frankster]

And come on, don't tell me that FF7 is just as open to criticism as any other game. This thread has already proven that some people will completely dismiss you for having a less than glowing opinion of their favorite nostalgia trip.

Oh I won't go as far as that, but out of the various "untouchable" classics, Ff7 is the lowest hanging fruit you can find.
The kind of people you describe, even in this very thread, are outnumbered by those who fully admit FF7 wasn't the best game evar and a lot of its enduring appeal comes down to nostalgia and how much of an impact it had back then, but who would like to correct you on some inaccurate misconceptions all the same.

but don't try labeling people who actually play the game and didn't like it as "hipsters," who just want hate on it for being cool, otherwise if people can't express their views on it with actual constructive criticism

Why not? Why can't I call a fish a fish?

OP literally admits he never played FF7 so I was right on calling him out on that, and I really do think the article is hipster BS and the author's opinions are to be laughed at rather then listened to, but certainly not because I think Ff7 is some flawless masterpiece of a game.

 

[Frankster]

Then you're no better then fans who love the game, defend it, and say no one should criticize it honestly, or the people hating on it when they didn't play it, like the OP and the author of the article.

You are very confusing to me.

You're telling me I can't call things out as I see them because.....Reasons you've never really explained besides wagging your finger at me even though I was actually right.
So we can't call BS on BS opinions now? I think that's the death of free speech I hear.

And then follow it up by basically going "hmph! well you're no better then those OTHER guys, so there! take that!" *storms away in a puff* to which I'm left scratching my head and going... Mmkay? Good for you dude, I 100% support your ability to disagree with people and dismiss their opinions just like I did, for whatever reasons you want. That's the way I hear free speech is supposed to work, people say stuff, and other people can say stuff about the stuff that was said, it's wonderful really. Of course we are on a private domain and stuff, but I'm pretty sure that as long as you don't breach the code of conduct, then the escapist is a site where free speech is encouraged. Correct me if this is erroneous though.

Also I don't think I'll ever recover from the blow to my self esteem with that parting sentence.. I'm no better then a FF7 die hard fanboy? Dude.... That's deep..Like, I wouldn't even call my worst enemies that D:

 

[Frankster]

I wasn't defending the people who hate on the game, just the people with actual legitimate complaints, the ones who did play the game. I think we misunderstood each other.

I think that makes more sense. Cos I seriously got no problem with someone coming up and telling me FF7 is the worst game ever made so long as they can provide some decent reasons for it. I'd probably still disagree cos would seem too extreme a statement (Bubsy3d and Superman64 make for still competition in that category), but I'd at least respect the position.

All right dawg guess we cool.

 

[Lightspeaker]

Saying that makes me think you haven't actually played 10 or any FF other than 12 (since you explicitly mentioned having played 12). Because FF10's combat is nothing like 12s and, indeed, is nothing like anything I can remember from other games. And 12s is drastically different to any other Final Fantasy outside of the MMOs.

FF10 wasn't an ATB system like that used in games since FF4. It used an action order system (referred to as CTB) in which characters took their actions in a specific order according to an explicitly clear timeline. This meant that firstly you could actually consider your actions without 'worrying' about having to do it quickly (as happened in at least some iterations of ATB), secondly it was MUCH clearer of in which order actions would be taken meaning it was more tactical and thirdly it had the single finest summoning system of any Final Fantasy.

And you cannot play 12 like any other FF game other than the MMOs. Because it was an open area battle system rather than the random encounters system with a separate battle screen seen in every single other main Final Fantasy prior to it and as also seen in 13. It was also largely pointless and difficult to control all three characters at once which was a stepping stone to the "control one character only" silliness of FF13, which I personally think was the most ridiculous idea in that entire game.

I said "under-the-hood" FF12 is the same. You could literally play FF12 one character at a time if you wanted to, it would take forever, but you could do it as you could pause the battle and issue commands at any time. There was an order to when everyone acted in FF12 based on their speed attribute just like in FF10, Rikku would go like 3 times for every one turn of Auron. Come on now, FF10 wasn't strategic, I always knew exactly what to do on my turns. I barely even died in FF10 (I only died occasionally on a boss) and I didn't grind either, the game was so easy. FF10 was like using a computer program instead of playing a game whereas FF12 was programming a computer program. Put gambits in FF10 and it would play just like FF12. If a few if-then-else statements will make the game play itself, it's not strategic or tactical. You wouldn't be able to make XCOM play itself with a few if-then-else statements. I like turn-based combat when it is actually strategic and tactical, FF10 was not that at all. When a turn-based combat system has no character positioning to it, you lose most of the strategy.

No, it plays nothing like the same. It is not a classical Final Fantasy turn-based RPG battle system. It does not involve a separate battle screen and it does not involve the same strategic puzzles. That is a simple fact. It is NOTHING like the previous games in the series, it is styled after an MMO-type system.

Applies and Oranges with XCOM and FF games. You might as well compare it to Doom. But fine, I'll make the statement clearer: of the classical RPG style battle system variations found in Final Fantasies 1 through 10 (plus 13), 10 had by far the best system.

Its also totally pointless to complain that it could play itself with a bunch of if-then-or statements. CHESS can play itself in a much similar way. Fundamentally the old-style FF RPG battle system wasn't difficult, but it wasn't supposed to be difficult. It was rather like a tactical puzzle for each battle, figuring out the optimal strategy to beat each enemy. And it hasn't been done better than in 10 (in fact its hardly been done since 10, 13 technically counts but it was poorly done).