Finnish Hearthstone Tournament Changes Policy on Women - Update

[clippen05]

FYI guys, the only people who consider e-sports an actual sport are the people who play and stand to make a living off of e-sports. For the rest of us, it's called a video game.

Ever consider that just because you have no interest in something, that doesn't mean that other people can't like it? I make absolutely zero dollars off of E-Sports, same as I make off of regular sports, but I enjoy watching soccer and competitive CS:GO just the same. I treat them as equal, no matter what types of skills they require. How about you stop belittling people's interests?

 

[drakonz]

i just have to ask, this is happening in 30 countries and main causer is south korea so why is finland is focused in title?

 

[Ferisar]

Then we can go the other way around. Let's have only mixed competitions in the sports events. No more sex-based segregation at the Olympics or any sports event.

Except we have conclusive evidence to physiological differences between men and women that are limiting both-ways. We DON'T have the same revolving around cognitive ability and capability. This is barely a step above me saying that blacks and whites shouldn't be allowed to compete on the same level based on nothing but social trends.

Try that shit in sports and see how people react.

EDIT: As a note, I'm reading my own posts and they're a lot more aggressive then I ever intended. Shit like this just pisses me off. Disregard the unnecessary snark.

Then it's irrelevant to the argument at hand.

I don't know what "the argument at hand" is. I might not even be participating in the argument at hand.

All I'm saying is that there is no hard data to say that players shouldn't be segregated based on physical/chemical differences due to sex.

That's all.

Nothing else.

Cool.

 

[johnsarif]

i have to ask this same thing is happening in 30 countries and main causer is south korea so why is finland is focused in title?

Click baiting? We wouldn't be so shocked if it said South Korea in the title. Scandinavian countries are seen as a feminist bastion so you can imagine how it might stir some emotions when hearing about sex based segregation.

 

[Naeras]

What is "RO8"?

I googled it, but all I got was acronyms for "round of eight".

Yeah, that's exactly what it is an acronym for.
(i.e. the point of the tournament where all but 8 players have been knocked out, also referred to as "quarterfinals" :V)

 

[johnsarif]

Except we have conclusive evidence to physiological differences between men and women that are limiting both-ways. We DON'T have the same revolving around cognitive ability and capability.

That was just an example to show you that your hyperbole was wrong and uncalled for. I could say the same thing about your argument.

Maybe we should separate the two sexes completely, right? Fuck men and women ever being in the same anything. Workplaces? Women are too different. Voting? They might make a different decision. Artistry? Why? Women might draw differently then men, same with writing. Let them read only female-written books, after all, men won't understand it anyway, it's just too different.
Class-rooms? Nope. Playground games for toddlers? Nope. Let's get even more trivial, please! Did I make an anecdotal layperson statement? Yeah.

"Except we have conclusive evidence that the physiological differences between men and women do not affect work performance, artistic performance, education etc. "

You were the one who went ballistic. I only said that it's OK to have mixed eSports events and that we should study the problem further so we can make sure that men or women are not at an disadvantage.

 

[PBMcNair]

FYI guys, the only people who consider e-sports an actual sport are the people who play and stand to make a living off of e-sports. For the rest of us, it's called a video game.

On the one hand I can see where your coming from, but on the other hand Darts is considered a competitive sport. If thats a sport to the world, there is absolutely no reason [insert e-sport here] can't be.

i have to ask this same thing is happening in 30 countries and main causer is south korea so why is finland is focused in title?

Click baiting? We wouldn't be so shocked if it said South Korea in the title. Scandinavian countries are seen as a feminist bastion so you can imagine how it might stir some emotions when hearing about sex based segregation.

Or it could be that the Finnish competition is coming up at the end of this month, so it's relevant to the topic. And this kind of crap would piss me off no matter what country it was in. It's such an incredibly stupid stance to take, it makes no logical sense, it's negative publicity, and what's worse it might be something that catches on. If the organisation succeeds, this behaviour might become the norm for such contests and that's not something I want to have to put up with.

 

[Doom972]

I think that it's shameful that it's done in e-sports as well as in physical sports. If you're going to separate players based on gender, then what's stopping you from doing the same based on race, height, SAT scores, or any other attribute?

People are different, and some are better than others in certain things - might as well give everyone a chance to prove themselves the best at what they do, and not just in a particular group.

 

[Ferisar]

Except we have conclusive evidence to physiological differences between men and women that are limiting both-ways. We DON'T have the same revolving around cognitive ability and capability.

That was just an example to show you that your hyperbole was wrong and uncalled for. I could say the same thing about your argument.

Maybe we should separate the two sexes completely, right? Fuck men and women ever being in the same anything. Workplaces? Women are too different. Voting? They might make a different decision. Artistry? Why? Women might draw differently then men, same with writing. Let them read only female-written books, after all, men won't understand it anyway, it's just too different.
Class-rooms? Nope. Playground games for toddlers? Nope. Let's get even more trivial, please! Did I make an anecdotal layperson statement? Yeah.

"Except we have conclusive evidence that the physiological differences between men and women do not affect work performance, artistic performance, education etc. "

You were the one who went ballistic. I only said that it's OK to have mixed eSports events and that we should study the problem further so we can make sure that men or women are not at an disadvantage.

Fair. It's hard not to overreact when people call for segregated competition that has nothing to do with physical fitness based on nothing conclusive when we're surrounded by casual sexism in competition already. I don't care what they do about studying the realities of the competition as long as it doesn't interfere with the actual events.

For me to make the leap from work performance and educational performance should warrant enough evidence to show that competition between the two on a cognitive level should be enough to justify it. Unless, again, you claim the potential for inferiority in mental capability, in which case you might want to start reconsidering the former two as well, given they use the same skill-sets.

 

[Erttheking]

That's a different culture from most of you yankees,

Refrain from name calling please.

OT: This is just...what is the logic behind this? How does this make any sense at all?

 

[Macsen Wledig]

Maybe we should separate the two sexes completely, right? Fuck men and women ever being in the same anything. Workplaces? Women are too different. Voting? They might make a different decision. Artistry? Why? Women might draw differently then men, same with writing. Let them read only female-written books, after all, men won't understand it anyway, it's just too different.
Class-rooms? Nope. Playground games for toddlers? Nope. Let's get even more trivial, please!

Isn't this a strawman or some kind of logical fallacy? Slippery slope?
I don't think anyone argued for segregation in the workplace, artistry or classrooms.

It's a "Reductio ad absurdum" and he or she is using it correctly. If we are to accept the premise that men and women are sufficiently different neurologically speaking that they have to be segregated in a collectable card game because one group would have an unfair advantage over the other then it would be reasonable to assume that that group would have a pronounced edge when it comes to other activities that require cognition.

In fact, if one group is so poor at cognition that they have a measurable disadvantage when it comes to something as simple as a collectable card game then I'd argue that society has a duty of care to restrict or ban this group from anything more mentally taxing than falling off a log. Fortunately, this isn't the case.

I didn't know that logic-processing was so bloody different that you have to consider the "different wirings within the male/female brain" to separate competition. God forbid the girl might use a card differently than a dude. Puh-fucking-lease. This isn't Starcraft (and then I'd have an actual pro-player example thanks to Scarlett), it's a turn-based card game.

As well as segregating males and females because they might think differently, I guess we'll have to segregate it further for those who are neurotypical and those that are not neurotypical. There's no real reason to, but segregation is good? Right guys?

It's a hard question how and when to segregate and not. It depends where you draw the line. For me, it comes down to: "Does feature X of group Y offer them a huge advantage over other groups?". If yes, segregate based on feature X, else do not segregate.

So, in this case, is there a "feature x" that either males or females possess which will give them a huge advantage at hearthstone and if so, what is it?

 

[Rozalia1]

Seems legitimate, few can argue from a strong position against them due to hypocrisy.
People are against this, but for splitting up men and women in "actual" sports because of biological differences...yet not for splitting based on race grounds even though different races are more suited to spiriting, endurance running, swimming, RTS, and the like because well...that'd be "racist" (just science in actuality).

If you want everyone to play together in everything, or everyone to be segregated further than you can stand strong...otherwise you are hypocritical somewhere.

 

[melkior]

Yeah this bit of news has gone spreading all over the internet as "Finland bans female gamers".. and as a finn I am a bit upset about the low standard of publishing regarding this. most of the articles depict Finland's qualifier as being the one discriminating against gender when its all about the South-Korean main organization and their rules not to mention that the main event is in Azerbaijan. (Muslim country)
we were the 4th country in the world to give women the right to vote and now this goes around.....

God i love interwebs and people who don't actually bother to read the article before they copy paste it around everywhere.
(already in verge and guardian etc.)

 

[elvor0]

Well, there's your problem. You're trying to classify "games" as "sports".

Not...quite sure what you're getting at. Most sports are games. Heck the Olympics are "The Olympic Games", you have "The Commonwealth Games", football is referred to as "The Beautiful Game", you play a game of Chess, cards, rugby etc.

 

[Macsen Wledig]

Seems legitimate, few can argue from a strong position against them due to hypocrisy.
People are against this, but for splitting up men and women in "actual" sports because of biological differences...yet not for splitting based on race grounds even though different races are more suited to spiriting, endurance running, swimming, RTS, and the like because well...that'd be "racist" (just science in actuality).

"Just science actually"

Care to back that up with a scientific publication or do we just take your word for it?

If you want everyone to play together in everything, or everyone to be segregated further than you can stand strong...otherwise you are hypocritical somewhere.

No, you just don't understand nuanced positions.

 

[melkior]

OT: Wow that's funny Finland. Good joke. Now come on and make the real announcement for the tournament.

...Please?

And again.... Its the South-Korean insisting on the gender rule. We Finns are actually lobbying against the thing.

 

[sorsa]

As long as we don't give groups like IeFS our support by participating in their tournaments or watching their streams, they will join the pile of insignificant and forgotten things where they belong.

 

[Nowhere Man]

And yet another reason to hate eSports. This is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard so far this year. And no, no matter what you, do clicking on a mouse will never and should never be considered in the same category as actual physical athletic sports. Ever. And that's ok because it takes totally different kinds of skills, skills that both male and female can compete in on even ground.. you know what, fuck it, fuck these people and their stupidity.