Flash Game Makes Players Beat Up "Tropes vs. Women" Creator

[Li Mu]

Lets face it, some of the more aggressive and unreasonable of the internets dwellers are;

a) 15 year old boys. Terrified of the creature known as woman, so lash out in juvenile anger.

b) 30 year old basement dwellers. Hateful of what they cannot seem to obtain.

c) misogynistic/racist/homophobic assholes. Hateful of everyone else.

d) Rick Santorum


These are the loudest 30% of the internet. The other 70% generally avoid all contact with such pointless arguments and just go back to playing Skyrim or whatever.

 

[IronicBeet]

So you're content to attack who he is as a person, rather than specifically what the points he makes about the subject at hand are. laugh at his sonic porn in addition to condemning him for making a game about beating a woman he disagrees with Congratulations, you've now stooped to the level of the people who are antagonizing Anita Sarkeesian. rustled my jimmies.

Fixed for accuracy.

And to misquote Emma Goldman, if I can't laugh at creepy fanart, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

Something tells me that you wouldn't be so passionate about this if he had made a game about punching a man. In fact, I think that a lot of people would be less passionate about this if the game involved punching a man.

And believe me, if you made me mad, I'd be typing a lot more aggressively and obviously angry. The only thing about your posts that's frustrating me is your use of the whole "rustling my jimmies" thing. That shit got old a month ago, think of another sofunnyxDDDD internet meme to spout.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Something tells me that you wouldn't be so passionate about this if he had made a game about punching a man. In fact, I think that a lot of people would be less passionate about this if the game involved punching a man.

You mean almost as if there's some sort of history of men engaging in violence against women they want to silence? And as if this woman has received assault/death/rape threats for speaking her mind? Whoa, imagine that.

 

[IronicBeet]

Something tells me that you wouldn't be so passionate about this if he had made a game about punching a man. In fact, I think that a lot of people would be less passionate about this if the game involved punching a man.

You mean almost as if there's some sort of history of men engaging in violence against women they want to silence? And as if this woman has received assault/death/rape threats for speaking her mind? Whoa, imagine that.

Yeah, she has received a lot of abuse. That's a great excuse to talk about making a facepunch about Spurr's mother, tell him to kill himself, and attempt to outright ruin his life by informing everybody that can possibly be informed (especially potential employers) that "Ben Spurr is a misogynistic piece of shit that made a game about beating a woman because she dares to speak out against sexism in video games". If you've been following his twitter for the past couple days, those are all things that have been happening on his page, but unfortunately I can't link them because now his twitter is suspended. Just Twitter doing its part in the fight against misogyny, right?

 

[Tippy]

The game industry has been about men making games for men for a while now. If women want to be represented fairly in games, they need to get off their asses and contribute to game development just as much as men. Right now I can say without a shadow of a doubt that women don't contribute anywhere near to 50% (the ideal proportion) to game development. Probably closer to 10-20%, if even that.

Ladies, you don't barge into a gentlemen's club and yell at all the guys to be ashamed of themselves and then tell them to get out. You go to your own club (i.e. make your own games) that are aimed at keeping YOU entertained. You can be as sadistic, discriminatory, unfair to virtual men in your fantasy worlds as you like - us men wouldn't give a damn since it's all in a video game aimed at keeping you entertained. We won't kick down your door demanding to be fairly represented and we ask you do the same (there's equality for you).

Thanks to you breaking out the megaphones the moment a female is even looked at funny in a video game, developers have to run screaming in the other direction desperately making stories and reasons. That's right, artists have to JUSTIFY and DEFEND their art now.

Straw feminists or "real" femists, you lot are seen as a single entity by the rest of the world and you need to direct your efforts at the discrimination that is happening in the REAL world where women make up roughly half the world's REAL population. Not video games where 90% of the creators are male, for that you first need to prove you can make video games just as successfully as men and pull as many sales as us. Screaming about your portrayal in video games is a massive waste of breath, you are preaching to a German audience in Russian.

Thank you.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Ah, I feel a touch of nostalgia, this reminds me of the old days and old ways.
Also wish I'd gotten to play this once before blamming it along with everyone else
Instead, I'll go play the old PKMN assassin and backstreet boys hate games.

Stop being outraged about this, internet. There are much better things than a crappy flash game to be worried about.
Like pedophile mods for skyrim. Oh, mod community. you make me sad sometimes

 

[Tippy]

To quote Bill Cosby(yes the actor): "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."

Nicely put Tenmar
I'm still learning the art of wording posts carefully, reading/watching shining examples from some of the reviewers/writers here has been quite humbling and is what made me sign up for the Escapist in the first place.

 

[rbstewart7263]

The game industry has been about men making games for men for a while now. If women want to be represented fairly in games, they need to get off their asses and contribute to game development just as much as men. Right now I can say without a shadow of a doubt that women don't contribute anywhere near to 50% (the ideal proportion) to game development. Probably closer to 10-20%, if even that.

Ladies, you don't barge into a gentlemen's club and yell at all the guys to be ashamed of themselves and then tell them to get out. You go to your own club (i.e. make your own games) that are aimed at keeping YOU entertained. You can be as sadistic, discriminatory, unfair to virtual men in your fantasy worlds as you like - us men wouldn't give a damn since it's all in a video game aimed at keeping you entertained. We won't kick down your door demanding to be fairly represented and we ask you do the same (there's equality for you).

Thanks to you breaking out the megaphones the moment a female is even looked at funny in a video game, developers have to run screaming in the other direction desperately making stories and reasons. That's right, artists have to JUSTIFY and DEFEND their art now.

Straw feminists or "real" femists, you lot are seen as a single entity by the rest of the world and you need to direct your efforts at the discrimination that is happening in the REAL world where women make up roughly half the world's REAL population. Not video games where 90% of the creators are male, for that you first need to prove you can make video games just as successfully as men and pull as many sales as us. Screaming about your portrayal in video games is a massive waste of breath, you are preaching to a German audience in Russian.

Thank you.

said the same in another post glad im not the only one.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I'd say you have to learn more about sexualisation and objectification. Sexualising women makes them less than people which is why you can directly relate it to an increase in sexual assault. Touting nothing but a message that women are just there to be ogled and to be sexual objects for men.

The fact that men have 'perfect' bodies has NOTHING to do with how attractive they are its is power fantasy for men. There is a thread somewhere on the forum with what girls find physically attractive nearly all of the posts say 'I don't' like totally ripped or muscly guys' It's all about how a character puts themselves across. The image of Lara Croft you show as 'determined' still has her in a sexualised pose.

Please watch MovieBobs vid it will explain how you are just not getting the point and how saying men are sexualised because they have a 'perfect' bod is false equivalence.

http://moviebob.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/big-picture-gender-games.html

There is nothing wrong with a character being sexy but if that is all they are there for then it is a problem.

Oh and cover art is pretty much restricted to what they can show as it will be seen by everyone. Just saying.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

The game industry has been about men making games for men for a while now. If women want to be represented fairly in games, they need to get off their asses and contribute to game development just as much as men. Right now I can say without a shadow of a doubt that women don't contribute anywhere near to 50% (the ideal proportion) to game development. Probably closer to 10-20%, if even that.

Ladies, you don't barge into a gentlemen's club and yell at all the guys to be ashamed of themselves and then tell them to get out. You go to your own club (i.e. make your own games) that are aimed at keeping YOU entertained. You can be as sadistic, discriminatory, unfair to virtual men in your fantasy worlds as you like - us men wouldn't give a damn since it's all in a video game aimed at keeping you entertained. We won't kick down your door demanding to be fairly represented and we ask you do the same (there's equality for you).

Thanks to you breaking out the megaphones the moment a female is even looked at funny in a video game, developers have to run screaming in the other direction desperately making stories and reasons. That's right, artists have to JUSTIFY and DEFEND their art now.

Straw feminists or "real" femists, you lot are seen as a single entity by the rest of the world and you need to direct your efforts at the discrimination that is happening in the REAL world where women make up roughly half the world's REAL population. Not video games where 90% of the creators are male, for that you first need to prove you can make video games just as successfully as men and pull as many sales as us. Screaming about your portrayal in video games is a massive waste of breath, you are preaching to a German audience in Russian.

Thank you.

Demographic doesn't make sexism right just the same as it doesn't make racism right. It's good that male dev's have to justify themselves. So they bloody should when they display 'sexy nuns' being beaten up or imply that a rape is a good way to toughen a female character up.

Kim Swift invented Portal. You know, that ridiculously amazing video game that everyone loves?
That right there just shoots your whole theory that women couldn't possibly compete in the video games industry down.

Just because your neighbour has a hole in their roof doesn't mean you shouldn't fix your fence. Fixing problem A does not take away from Problem B

And frankly since it's been proven that 42% of gamers are women I find your implication that women who game doesn't exist kind of sexist. Especially since I have been gaming since 1984...When were you born exactly? Just wondering.

 

[Treblaine]

It is very, very difficult to make comparisons because different countries have different definitions of rape, and enforcement also depends on cultural attitudes towards sexual assault and how seriously the authorities take it. If the victims don't think the police are going to do anything about it anyway, then they aren't going to bother reporting it, especially when doing so can open them up to shaming and more harassment.

<a href=http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20101015a2.html#.T_n6t_UZ-nA>Train groping is drastically underreported in Japan.

And I'm not just making assumptions about Egypt, either. It's only relevant insofar as it's an example of how unreliable reported rape statistics are.

OK, but something MUST be able to be concluded from the 25-fold difference in reported incidence per 100'000 or rapes between the USA and Japan. How can that be down to under-reporting? If it is that is a totally unacceptable level of under reporting which must be addressed, this means at least 95% of rapes are going unreported for it to be the same incidence per capita as America and 100% of rapes reported in America.

And I have said before, there is under-reporting in both Japan and America, you can't only consider under-reporting in Japan, that's cooking the books.

SOMETHING can be gleaned from this: to spite the extreme pornographic fiction all signs point to Japan having a low crime rate across the board, including sexual crimes. This contradicts Ms Sarkeesian's spurious link between sexy adverts and passengers being molested.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up the US or why such a comparison is relevant. All I've shown is that police reports are not a reliable indicator for the prevalence of sexual harassment in general, and train-groping in Japan in particular.

As i said before, sexual assaults are under-reported to varying degrees in various countries, and without accurate statistics it is very difficult to make comparisons.

a 2500% difference in under-reporting? 100% of all US crimes would have to be reported and 95% of crimes in Japan go unreported to settle that difference.

I think not. You can't dismiss such statistics.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

The worst thing about this is that I'm not at all surprised.

Welcome to the internet. If you're a woman, we'll beat the crap out of you till you let us respect your opinions s'more.

Has anyone else noticed that this entire thing is basically the same as that Critical miss comic "Sexism and/or Racism". Oh misogynists, its funny when you think you're not.

Whilst I'm kind of unfamiliar with the whole Tropes vs women thing (I've heard about it, but I haven't researched it too far. Not even sure what a trope is) And I can pretty much guess that I'd agree with the basic principle, and I'm also fairly sure the way to say that "we don't believe in stereotyping women but we disagree with whoever" is not by making a game where you beat the crap out of a woman.

Logic? Logic? Where arrre yoou?

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

The worst thing about this is that I'm not at all surprised.

Welcome to the internet. If you're a woman, we'll beat the crap out of you till you let us respect your opinions s'more.

Has anyone else noticed that this entire thing is basically the same as that Critical miss comic "Sexism and/or Racism". Oh misogynists, its funny when you think you're not.

Whilst I'm kind of unfamiliar with the whole Tropes vs women thing (I've heard about it, but I haven't researched it too far. Not even sure what a trope is) And I can pretty much guess that I'd agree with the basic principle, and I'm also fairly sure the way to say that "we don't believe in stereotyping women but we disagree with whoever" is not by making a game where you beat the crap out of a woman.

Logic? Logic? Where arrre yoou?

 

[Dryk]

What a terrible way to make a good point. This is unacceptable, and getting in the way of discussing Anita's ability as an activist and teaching, ability I find lacking.

 

[Treblaine]

I am fed up to my back teeth of people who want to enforce the worst restrictions of Sharia Law on the likes of Lara Croft

This right here - this is the point where I concluded that there was no point in reasonable discourse. Because honestly, what in the hell are you even talking about?

I do my best to be understanding and to come at an issue with an open mind, taking both sides into account, but this is just so off the wall that I can't even imagine the headspace whence it came.

Your argument is argument from incredulity. You have not demonstrated why it is wrong, you jsut claim you don't understand. That's a fallacy. YOU have copped out of reasonable discourse. You are no different from "this Darwin guy claims we evolved from monkeys, this is why I know there is nothing more to discuss".

Again, you prove that you are unwilling to approach discussion in a logical manner.

Because nothing anyone has said on this thread or any other about the representation of women in media has ever included Sharia Law. But you're holding it up like it was some brilliant piece of evidence as to why it is wrong to ask for a female character who isn't presented purely as a sex object.

And your other replies to me make a massive effort to ignore my points, to take my words out of context and to attribute to me things I never said - which is the same tactic you used on Sarkeesian, and on other posters here. You are not having an intelligent, civil discussion. You're subverting the conversation to further your own point of view. And I can't respond to that in any reasonable way.

Pointing out fallacies is vital to any logical discussion as fallacies are counter to conclusive logic.

"Because nothing anyone has said on this thread or any other about the representation of women in media has ever included Sharia Law"

The constant and bitter objections to women showing their bodies, attacking them for being sexual... The comparisons with Sharia Law are clear to me and I will make the comparison you refuse to consider.

"why it is wrong to ask for a female character who isn't presented purely as a sex object."

STRAW MAN ALERT! Sstraw man alert from Trilligan, I have categorically NEVER supported the presentation of women as "sex object". I have been EXPLICITE in stating how a woman being shown as alive, human and animate is THE ANTITHESIS of making her an object or seem like an object.

The link between objecting to women exposing their bodies and the crulties of Sharia Law are clear.

The link between sexualisation and turning women into objects (or perceived that way) is absolutely non existent. It is nothing but a lie oft repeated, the Big Lie. Just because a woman is sexual, she does not become in any way like an object, thing about what you are saying, what the hell is going through your head when you see a woman who bares her arms and wears shorts like Lara croft and ignores EVERYTHING about her as a charcater and jsut sees an inanimate object.

Lets summarise:
-I have gone point by point and addressed every single one of your points
-I have never intentionally falsely attributed anything to you
-I am having an intelligent and civil discussion, you are using fallacy after fallacy
-I am not subverting anything, I am staying on topic
-I am proving my case when you use bad logic or no logic at all.

"And I can't respond to that in any reasonable way."

Fine by me, If we don't have to hear so many fallacies and spurious logic then don't consider it a victory on your part. I proved my case and you just practice denialism.