"For privacy, Origin is the same as Steam" WRONG!!! -Updated

[Something Amyss]

Also I use Firefox where they give you the option of whether you want to share those details or not.

They do, however, collect personally identifiable information regardless of whether you opt-out. Funny, that.

Hell, Origin's EULA is geared towards non-personally identifiable identification. Where is the end of the world panic at Firefox? Oh, right, Origin is only a big deal because ponies.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

...
Imagine I was looking through your window. I'm not gonna tell anyone else what you do, hell i'll just use it to get to know you better. Is it still ok with me looking through your window?

eh i see what your getting at but i still think it's different, i wouldn't give a fuck if someone wanted to see what kind of shit is in my car or room, but to physically COME to my house and look at it through the window? that's a bit creepy, but if it was just your average "show your rig/room!" stuff, which is comparable to the origin "peeking around", then i don't see what the problem is.

honestly i don't see what the information can be used badly for. hell maybe they find out that shit tons of people use "such and such companies video card!" so they make a deal next time with that company to sell upgraded versions of those cards (such as radeon 6770 to a 6790 or 6850) with a 5 dollar off coupon for EA's next big game. that's a score for me personally.

I don't understand - you wouldn't mind someone going through the stuff in your room, but you do mind if they look through the window? That's a little strange. Also, the "show your rig/desktop" thing? The point that OP was making is that even that is a voluntary thing - it's not as if you read a thread title and the forum steals your system info or screenshots your desktop and posts it online, you decide if you want to post such information, and you choose when and where. Choice is phenomenally important, and Origin holds your freedom to choose hostage with its restrictive games distribution.

On top of that, why the fuck does any corporation think it has the right to casually browse the contents of your computer? I'm not that happy with Steam doing it, but as far as I know they grab steam game useage info and the optional hardware survey. Origin's is wonderfully open - I believe they want to be able to help themselves to your browsing history, at least at one point. Fuck that.

there is a difference between physically rummaging through my stuff and me taking a picture and saying "here you go, this is what my room looks like!", physical and digital comparisons are not going to be on par so that was as close as i could get with that type of argument. if it was mandatory on your computer i would definitely agree, but it is all right there as clear as day in the EULA, not to mention there are plenty of ways to disable/inhibit what origin does, hell it wouldn't surprise me if there are specific chrome/firefox extensions available that do just that. what are you looking up that you are SO WORRIED that origin would see? this is the internet after all, i am pretty sure they wouldn't be that shocked if they even DID look at that info.

 

[ph0b0s123]

Also I use Firefox where they give you the option of whether you want to share those details or not.

They do, however, collect personally identifiable information regardless of whether you opt-out. Funny, that.

Hell, Origin's EULA is geared towards non-personally identifiable identification. Where is the end of the world panic at Firefox? Oh, right, Origin is only a big deal because ponies.

Still waiting for some corroboration on that point. What is this personally identifiable information? And unless is all the software details of your system it is nowhere near as bad a Origin...

 

[Elate]

Since I got a warning for this, it's not about having the Adblockers that's a problem it's disclosing it and advocating it. Obviously anyone here who uses them has Escapist in their white-list to help pay for the site. I did not know until the warning, but it's in the forum rules....

Hmm that makes sense, still not changing my original post though since it was more a general statement on it, and ad-blockers aren't illegal or in anyway a criminal offense, so frankly I don't see why it is listed in the rules an example of one.

Okay. I was just giving you some advice is all.

Aye sorry, I hadn't eaten and was a bit snappish.

 

[Something Amyss]

Last I checked I opted to not share my info with steam and was still enjoying its service. Try that with Origin...oh wait...

Problem is, you can't ever completely opt-out. Read the privacy policy.

Prove it, or it's not true.

It's in the privacy policy. The one I doubt you've ever read. Also:

No, they have what software you use, versions, modifications, no-CD patches, how often you use it, anything else they can potentially gather by rooting around. If it was just hardware details it may have not been such a big issue.

Prove it or it's not true. The current EULA does not specify those things.

 

[Canadish]

I don't have the screenshot on this computer

It's funny, this is always case whenever someone has irrefutable proof of something. They just can't prove it right now.

I've noticed that happens alot as well.

Thankfully, this isn't one of those times where it was a load of BS.

 

[Sandytimeman]

Last I checked I opted to not share my info with steam and was still enjoying its service. Try that with Origin...oh wait...

Problem is, you can't ever completely opt-out. Read the privacy policy.

Prove it, or it's not true.

It's in the privacy policy. The one I doubt you've ever read. Also:

No, they have what software you use, versions, modifications, no-CD patches, how often you use it, anything else they can potentially gather by rooting around. If it was just hardware details it may have not been such a big issue.

Prove it or it's not true. The current EULA does not specify those things.

Taken from
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/24/eas-origin-eula-proves-even-more-sinister/

The full clause reads,

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA?s Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA?s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.

It?s not unusual for such software to collect information from your computer relating to itself, and it?s not unknown that using that software means you agree to this information being distributed anonymously to third parties. Steam, for instance, warns that it will,

?store information on a user?s hard drive that is used in conjunction with online play of Valve products. This includes a unique authorization key or CD-Key that is either entered by the user or downloaded automatically during product registration. This authorization key is used to identify a user as valid and allow access to Valve?s products. Information regarding Steam billing, your Steam account, your Internet connection and the Valve software installed on your computer are uploaded to the server in connection with your use of Steam and Valve software.?

But there?s a significant difference. Valve?s policy is self-restricted to anything on your PC directly relating to its own products. EA?s is so broad that it gives the publisher permission to scan your entire hard drive, and report back absolutely anything you may have installed, and indeed when you may use it, and then pass that information on the third parties.

 

[ph0b0s123]

-snip-

No, they have what software you use, versions, modifications, no-CD patches, how often you use it, anything else they can potentially gather by rooting around. If it was just hardware details it may have not been such a big issue.

Prove it or it's not true. The current EULA does not specify those things.

I think the screen shot in the post two above does a pretty good job of showing Origin roots around our system, QED.

You can argue about the amount of rooting around, but the fact is that the data collected as part of this rooting around should not be sent to EA without your permission.

Now I have proved, my statements, I am still waiting for you to backup yours saying that other programs do the exactly the same thing without your permission and so are as bad as Origin. Waiting.....

 

[ph0b0s123]

Last I checked I opted to not share my info with steam and was still enjoying its service. Try that with Origin...oh wait...

Problem is, you can't ever completely opt-out. Read the privacy policy.

Prove it, or it's not true.

It's in the privacy policy. The one I doubt you've ever read. Also:

No, they have what software you use, versions, modifications, no-CD patches, how often you use it, anything else they can potentially gather by rooting around. If it was just hardware details it may have not been such a big issue.

Prove it or it's not true. The current EULA does not specify those things.

Taken from
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/24/eas-origin-eula-proves-even-more-sinister/

The full clause reads,

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA?s Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA?s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.

It?s not unusual for such software to collect information from your computer relating to itself, and it?s not unknown that using that software means you agree to this information being distributed anonymously to third parties. Steam, for instance, warns that it will,

?store information on a user?s hard drive that is used in conjunction with online play of Valve products. This includes a unique authorization key or CD-Key that is either entered by the user or downloaded automatically during product registration. This authorization key is used to identify a user as valid and allow access to Valve?s products. Information regarding Steam billing, your Steam account, your Internet connection and the Valve software installed on your computer are uploaded to the server in connection with your use of Steam and Valve software.?

But there?s a significant difference. Valve?s policy is self-restricted to anything on your PC directly relating to its own products. EA?s is so broad that it gives the publisher permission to scan your entire hard drive, and report back absolutely anything you may have installed, and indeed when you may use it, and then pass that information on the third parties.

You need to read the last paragraph of what you posted as even it details the difference between the Steam and Origin agreements. Oops...

 

[Sandytimeman]

You need to read the last paragraph of what you posted as even it details the difference between the Steam and Origin agreements. Oops...

"Valve's policy is self-restricted to anything on your PC directly relating to its own products. EA's is so broad that it gives the publisher permission to scan your entire hard drive, and report back absolutely anything you may have installed, and indeed when you may use it, and then pass that information on the third parties."

Yeah thats what I'm talking about...Origin is bad because it can scan your whole hard drive and give that info to ANY third party.

Steam will only collect info on things related to its own games.

IE ORIGIN IS BAD because it allows for data mining on your computer. Which is why I do not use it, and why I recommend to other people not to use it.

Is that information being used for nefarious purposes? Probably not, but it's just them inching the door open, that will allow for more control over the consumer. If people made a big enough deal they would get it changed just like how they got the deleting 2 year old inactive accounts removed from the EULA.

 

[DoPo]

No, they have what software you use, versions, modifications, no-CD patches, how often you use it, anything else they can potentially gather by rooting around. If it was just hardware details it may have not been such a big issue.

Prove it or it's not true. The current EULA does not specify those things.

Taken from
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/24/eas-origin-eula-proves-even-more-sinister/

The full clause reads,

-snip-

He said current EULA.

Here, what it's actually saying

EULAs and Other Disclosures [http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas]

Origin's EULA (PDF) [http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_9.16.11.pdf]

Spoiler: Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and
shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly.
Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA
would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it
ever use spyware or install spyware on users' machines. We and agents acting
on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your
consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to
enforce EA's legal rights.

In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects non-
personally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our
products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of
software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as
communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.
As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as
improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise
enhancing your user experience.

This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in
connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used,
stored and transmitted in accordance with EA's Privacy Policy located at
www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is
inconsistent with the terms of EA's Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy
shall control.

 

[Atmos Duality]

From Steam's Privacy Policy:

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below.

Oh snap! That actually looks very similar to EA's policy and is not optional, with the exception of seect third party participation!

At least Steam defined explicitly what information they were going to collect (the long continuation you omitted), and that matters quite a lot.

On launch, Origin's EULA did not; it simply defined its search parameter as "software", which legally, could mean ANYTHING on your hard drive. (terms need legal limits; that's what definitions are for)

To be fair here, I will re-read Origin's current EULA to see if that's still the case, but I distinctly remember reading that clause when Origin launched, and even after the first revision, the wording was still vague and undefined. I admit my information on Origin is currently outdated, simply by virtue that I do not do business with EA at all.

Speaking strictly from a legal stand point: EA claimed access to knowledge of all "software" on your hard drive via a poor/no definition of limits. And since this is a contractual obligation, they could legally deny access to games you paid for on the grounds of you denying them access to that information in any manner (breach).
(That manner includes "sandboxing" Origin, by the way).

Ignoring the hyperbole and favoritism in the topic for moment, I caution users of *all* online services to read privacy policies more closely, and look for terms that are explicitly defined, rather than implicitly. Knowing the true limitations of a contract will tell you more about the true intentions of who is running the service than anything they will ever claim publicly.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

snip

Now was that really necessary?

He stated he did not care. I am merely an advocate of being careful online.

People, if everything you have is linked to the same online alias, don't be a moron and TELL anyone that! I was caught out myself, thankfully by my sister, and cleaned up my act (Which is why you will struggle to find anything incriminating about me on the internet. Well, anything incriminating that I have ever posted myself. My ex girlfriends blog, now that has a few choice things to say about me. But at least I did not post it myself)

So was it necessary? Well, I might have made him aware of internet safety so I guess it was. Although he did state he did not care. And it took me less than 5 minutes to put that entire post together so I do not care overly much to be fair.

Privacy matters.

I am a single individual with nothing to gain from what I do. If someone who wished him harm found that out, well, I am pretty sure you could put together a bit of blackmail. Or perhaps just a smear campaign. Or maybe just mess up relationships and things like that.

Damn, you certainly went out with a bang.

But yeah. I just realized my brother was doing some questionable things online, and I just had a conversation with him a few seconds ago.

 

[SoldierC4]

I don't have the screenshot on this computer

It's funny, this is always case whenever someone has irrefutable proof of something. They just can't prove it right now.

I've noticed that happens alot as well.

Thankfully, this isn't one of those times where it was a load of BS.

I don't usually like to get caught up in these arguments on privacy, since I find both sides tend to have equally valid points. However in this picture you linked, I only see Origin accessing one program. What is "Lexware"? What Lexware actually is for, would make a difference as to whether it's actually invasive or not. ex: some form of hardware recording program vs personal photo album

So I went and tried using that program to see what Origin was doing on my computer. After wading through probably tens of thousands of lines of info, I noticed this. Origin did a RegQueryValue on "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\5.0\Cache\History" I'm not a pro, but that looks like it's trying to see my internet history (well from the looks of it Internet Explorer, it won't find much there). Anyone actually knows what that is please post.

Also it looks like they poked my desktop settings RegOpenKey "HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Control Panel\Desktop NAME NOT FOUND Desired Access: Read" but to be honest, that hardly seems invasive, more likely it's used for adjusting origin's window resolution or something.

Otherwise nothing really intrusive I could find, at least for the first ~5 minutes after start up. I didn't even see it trying to see into Chrome, which is where the real interesting stuff would be. Origin did have a bit of a thing for looking at boxart though, it kept opening the same picture inside origin called boxart.


Oh yea, and at one point it did this.
CreateFile: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\battlefield bad company 2\BFBC2Updater.exe"

/conspiracy

 

[evilneko]

~le snip~

I don't usually like to get caught up in these arguments on privacy, since I find both sides tend to have equally valid points. However in this picture you linked, I only see Origin accessing one program. What is "Lexware"? What Lexware actually is for, would make a difference as to whether it's actually invasive or not. ex: some form of hardware recording program vs personal photo album

Lexware is apparently a German company that produces financial/accounting/tax software. (Like Intuit/H&R Block here in the US)

.....why the fuck is Origin rifling through this guy's tax returns? :O

Origin EULA

And the spying shit is still there.

 

[ph0b0s123]

-snip-
Otherwise nothing really intrusive I could find, at least for the first ~5 minutes after start up. I didn't even see it trying to see into Chrome, which is where the real interesting stuff would be. Origin did have a bit of a thing for looking at boxart though, it kept opening the same picture inside origin called boxart.
-snip-

The point is not whether it is intrusive or not at this stage, but that it is happening at all....

*Vulgarity Warning*
It's like saying 'I was raped, but it was not that intrusive, as he only put the tip in'...

That's seems to be most people here's, attitude with their treatment by EA.

 

[SoldierC4]

-snip-
Otherwise nothing really intrusive I could find, at least for the first ~5 minutes after start up. I didn't even see it trying to see into Chrome, which is where the real interesting stuff would be. Origin did have a bit of a thing for looking at boxart though, it kept opening the same picture inside origin called boxart.
-snip-

The point is not whether it is intrusive or not at this stage, but that it is happening at all....

*Vulgarity Warning*
It's like saying 'I was raped, but it was not that intrusive, as he only put the tip in'...

That's seems to be most people here's, attitude with their treatment by EA.

That's a gross over-exaggeration. Most programs are to a degree intrusive, Steam collects hardware data, Google collects browsing data, Microsoft collects system use data, there are a VERY large number of programs that do this. I'm simply trying to find if Origin is doing it in a way that actually would be compromising to my security, or that would collect data I really don't want them to have.

*Vulgarity Warning 2*
Or in your analogy it would be like saying "everyone I talk to on the street rapes me, and it doesn't bother me at all, but this one guy raped me to much and now I'm offended."

 

[ph0b0s123]

-snip-
Otherwise nothing really intrusive I could find, at least for the first ~5 minutes after start up. I didn't even see it trying to see into Chrome, which is where the real interesting stuff would be. Origin did have a bit of a thing for looking at boxart though, it kept opening the same picture inside origin called boxart.
-snip-

The point is not whether it is intrusive or not at this stage, but that it is happening at all....

*Vulgarity Warning*
It's like saying 'I was raped, but it was not that intrusive, as he only put the tip in'...

That's seems to be most people here's, attitude with their treatment by EA.

That's a gross over-exaggeration. Most programs are to a degree intrusive, Steam collects hardware data, Google collects browsing data, Microsoft collects system use data, there are a VERY large number of programs that do this. I'm simply trying to find if Origin is doing it in a way that actually would be compromising to my security, or that would collect data I really don't want them to have.

*Vulgarity Warning 2*
Or in your analogy it would be like saying "everyone I talk to on the street rapes me, and it doesn't bother me at all, but this one guy raped me to much and now I'm offended."

And again with the false equivalentcy that other pieces of software do the same thing Origin does. The idea I started this thread to debunk. Steam asks you before sending those hardware details to Valve. Microsoft asks if you want to send them data as part of crash reports etc. There is no other piece of software that does what Origin does, scans for hardware and software details and then transmits them without your express permission.

I am quite happy to be proved wrong, but you need some evidence to back up your assertions. Several people have made the same statements you have about other software, and guess what, they can provide no evidence. Maybe you will be different.

Now as far as Google. That's not a piece of software and their cross-site tracking is defeated by a simple cookie blocker. Not the same at all. And if it was as least people are up in arms about it with EU investigations etc. Wish Origin was being put through the same inspection..

 

[SoldierC4]

Google was just an example of ways companies do data collection. When software from Microsoft or Steam does data collection, you are asked when you agree to the EULA, I have never ONCE been asked by Microsoft or Steam to allow data collection of hardware/software except when agreeing to the EULA, or in the off case where data collection occurs for crash reports (and I'm fairly certain this only occurs because they know the long time it takes to send data crashes would inconvenience some people), back round data collection still occurs. It's simply a matter of where you draw the line, like if you install software to block cookies; and yes, when you installed Origin you agreed to their EULA same as any other company has an EULA. It was stated in their EULA that they do do data collection.

Which is the reason I went and dug around with what Origin was scanning from my system, I was looking to find what they were actually trying to see, and in my case I was unable to find them taking any data that was actually important.

If the program "Lexmark" from above is actually Tax information software I may be concerned, however I have no idea where the original source came from, and am not inclined to believe it is real until I see similar effects on my system, as even a company like EA knows what would happen if they were caught stealing your legal tax documents. (or that in this case that Lexmark was the same as the Tax service company, and not some other unrelated software)

Also if you want to have a serious conversation, DO NOT EVER compare something as trivial as Origin's data collection and make it a comparison to rape. That is any way you look at it grossly over exaggerated and completely inappropriate for this topic, and does nothing but make you sound like a biased fool.